DCC campaigns without Clerics?

[CapnZapp]

(Not sure if this forum or the Characters forum is more appropriate. Anyways)

If you want to use DCC for campaign milieus with no gods or distant uncaring evil gods only (such as Sword & Sorcery) what options would you recommend?

Heroes still need SOME source of healing, right? But what if you -for campaign reasons- wish to cut off Clerics from their generous Lay on Hands ability?

Note: To me at least this is not exactly the same concern I have found discussed here and on reddit etc - that Clerics are "too powerful". But it is of course related.

Are there any DCC sourcebooks that offer Cleric-like replacement classes balanced to not offer "free" healing? What advice do these give on how to offer healing in other ways?

Magical healing potions is perhaps the first idea. But these are no more appropriate to Sword & Sorcery than healbot Clerics.

Allowing more generous nightly rest is one idea. Yet I'm loath to entirely abandon the need for recuperation. 5th Edition D&D basically isn't interested in rest periods, and so basically make you fully healed after taking a long rest.

Instead I'm wondering if ideas like the 5E Inspired Leader feat can be found anywhere, dressed up like a DCC rule. Clerics already depend on Personality after all. See here for an introduction to the idea:
https://blackcitadelrpg.com/inspiring-l ... -guide-5e/

Or perhaps you want me to simply keep Clerics as-is? How would you then explain lay on hands in terms "compatible" with Sword & Sorcery?

My ideal game uses mechanics to explain why characters rest up between adventures, while still allowing "emergency healing" when heroism is called for. Forcing the party to enter a monster cave at low health even though you COULD have healed up is not fun. Just asking players to tell stories of how they recuperate even though the game rules don't mandate it feels silly, and can be just as unfun. DCC at least uses Disapproval to make Clerics hesitate using healing when it's a luxury rather than a necessity.

Maybe every hero can burn a point of Stamina to heal a Hit Die (or their level's worth of Hit Dice). This way they trade long-term exhaustion for short-term combat readiness, even when there's no Cleric present (or the Cleric doesn't want to heal you, or the Cleric can't heal you)

Any other great ideas?

Regards
Zapp

[Raven_Crowking]

DCC Lankhmar has no clerics, and addresses this. I would have to look up the exact rules, but I believe it is something along the lines of: You can spend 1 Luck per level to dress/examine your wounds, regaining 1 HD. Drinking various alcoholic draughts increases your healing.

[thogard]

Transylvanian Adventures (a setting without magical healing) has some added rules for hit point recovery:

A character recovers 1d4-1 hp immediately after an encounter.

A character can take Stamina damage to recover 1d6+level hp.

After a good night's rest the character recovers their level in hp, modified by Sta bonus.

The skill system includes a Heal Others skill, allowing emergency first aid (Int check with DC 10 + the patient's current hp) requiring consumable medical supplies.

I've adapted this last idea for a clericless table, with the Herbalist Wizard having to restock her bag o' plants to provide healing.

[CapnZapp]

DCC Lankhmar has no clerics, and addresses this. I would have to look up the exact rules, but I believe it is something along the lines of: You can spend 1 Luck per level to dress/examine your wounds, regaining 1 HD. Drinking various alcoholic draughts increases your healing.

Thank you.

I would assume the Lankhmar rule presumes that the Fleeting Luck rule is also in effect? In other words, that you're supposed to be able to pay the Luck point without having to decrease your actual Luck score (unless someone fumbled and wiped your fleeting luck)?

Translated into regular DCC, perhaps the simplest solution is to allow everyone one single free “examine your wounds” action (once per encounter in which you took damage) and then regain one Hit Die's worth of hp (modified by Stamina and likely adding your level as well).

If you need more healing, you can spend 1 Luck to take a turn recuperating, regaining another HD as hp. Can't immediately see why this would need to be restricted. After all, you only have so many Luck points, and sometimes you simply don't have the time to sit around for several turns in a row.

Compared to default (Cleric) healing this is probably more generous for the party but less generous for a single hero. That is, a Cleric that focuses on a single hero can probably heal much more than this using Lay on Hands... but would then not also be able to heal everybody else.

The idea with booze is a good one. Assuming you need special spirits that you can't simply purchase en-masse, that is. Or perhaps better: to make the usage of regular spirits risky! (You'd gain a bonus to Recuperation, but you would need to make a Fortitude save or lose 1 Agility as you become inebriated. Lose three points and make a second Fortitude save to not pass out for the rest of the day).

[CapnZapp]

Transylvanian Adventures (a setting without magical healing) has some added rules for hit point recovery:

Thanks!

A character recovers 1d4-1 hp immediately after an encounter.

I think the “examine your wounds” action covers the same territory, with the added benefit you can choose when to do it (not just *after* the fight).

A character can take Stamina damage to recover 1d6+level hp.

I'd probably allow characters to burn Stamina as well as Luck to Recuperate (per the previous post)!

After a good night's rest the character recovers their level in hp, modified by Sta bonus.

Not sure about this. Level 0 characters with average Stamina would never heal anything.

Gaining another HD's worth of hit points for getting a good night's rest, however, would work. Using the same formula (your hit die modified by Stamina plus level) in all three cases (“examine your wounds”, “recuperate for a turn”, and “get a good night's sleep”) appeals to me.

[Raven_Crowking]

DCC Lankhmar has no clerics, and addresses this. I would have to look up the exact rules, but I believe it is something along the lines of: You can spend 1 Luck per level to dress/examine your wounds, regaining 1 HD. Drinking various alcoholic draughts increases your healing.

Thank you.

I would assume the Lankhmar rule presumes that the Fleeting Luck rule is also in effect? In other words, that you're supposed to be able to pay the Luck point without having to decrease your actual Luck score (unless someone fumbled and wiped your fleeting luck)?

That would be a great idea, but I think the carousing rules (which let you recover Luck) might be more important.

Your modification of this should work well.

You could also just make a "magical healing" spell (Exactly the same as Lay on Hands, except with corruption and misfire), although not every wizard/elf would get it.

[GnomeBoy]

What about a simple, "you get one roll on the LOH chart per day to reflect healing" and maybe "burn 1 Luck to get an extra roll" or "an extra die with your one roll"...?

[BanjoJohn]

If you are going to remove clerics, then I also suggest severely nerfing wizards so that they actually have to find and research their spells instead of getting them automatically when they level up.

I do like all of these healing options.

You can include random/rare encountered options for healing as well, like.. randomly a white unicorn comes and meets the party while they're traveling, if the party is nice to the unicorn it might tap them with its horn to heal any stat damage and cure diseases. Or maybe it provides a blessing that negates the damage of the first hit from the next combat they fight in.

They come across a well in the middle of the woods, drinking from the water heals their wounds, putting water in a skin will provide some healing but it loses its blessing after 1 day.



Hit points are not supposed to only represent pure damage or injuries done to the character, they represent the effort that the character can put forth to avoid being killed by attacks that would kill them. So losing HP is losing the ability to shrug off, block, dodge, or deflect attacks that would kill you. So with that in mind lots of other ideas help provide "healing of HP" because they are not directly tied to healing injuries. Like resting, restoring your morale with big feasts and fine wine, or something else that restores and rejuvenates the stamina and mental health of the characters.

[CapnZapp]

Since this is my first DCC campaign I'm going to leave Cleric Lay on Hands in, while making a bigger deal about the disapproval that can result.

To make Clerics not feel forced to become healbots, I'm adding three non-magical healing activities: a free "examine your wounds" action (one only), a 1-turn recuperation activity (costing 1 Stamina or Luck), as well as a Personality-based bonus to getting a "good night's rest".

For the future, I'll look up healing-less Clerics (presumably being given other bonuses to account for the loss of the powerful healing ability) - thanks everybody!

Thanks all

[BanjoJohn]

If you are willing to go with the "HP is about stamina and ability to avoid damage rather than being able to take more injuries'", then things like.. a bolstering song from a bard or a battle leader could "heal" HP by inspiring people to keep going, or triggering some adrenalin or gland response that refreshes their reflexes and lessens their fatigue. A snack of some fruit and wine could bolster/refresh/heal HP after a battle, etc.

[CapnZapp]

Absolutely.

Right now I'm new to DCC so I'll allow Clerics (renaming them Shaman*). Given time and experience, I will hopefully find a curated selection of classes that avoids the Cleric trope while still allowing the game to function**.

*) Players can obviously have their characters go by pretty much any title. I mean that just as I have renamed "Elf" into "Cultist" and "Halfling" into "Raider" to get into the right S&Sian mindset, I would like to avoid the "Cleric" name and its connotations to "classic" D&Dian adventures.
**) by "function" I mean that obviously heroes need SOME source of new hit points. Also that the S&S trope that just assumes your initial hit points are enough for a whole adventure isn't really compatible with the idea of resource conservation)

[Raven_Crowking]

There is a Cultist class in The Phlogiston Books Vol 1 that might actually be what you are looking for.

[CapnZapp]

Thank you.

Game starts too soon to change going with Eternity's suggestion (renaming Cleric into Cultist), but I will definitely check that out.

(Thank you all for very friendly advice!)

[Raven_Crowking]

Thank you.

Game starts too soon to change going with Eternity's suggestion (renaming Cleric into Cultist), but I will definitely check that out.

(Thank you all for very friendly advice!)

You are welcome!

DCC enthusiasts tend to be a very friendly crew!