Dwarf Shield Bash and Attack Die

Forum for discussing DCC RPG characters, classes, and character-related subjects.

Moderators: DJ LaBoss, finarvyn, michaelcurtis, Harley Stroh

Post Reply
Fergal
Gongfarmer
Posts: 1
Joined: Tue Jan 14, 2020 7:12 pm

Dwarf Shield Bash and Attack Die

Post by Fergal » Tue Jan 14, 2020 7:27 pm

Hello to anyone whom reads this. I'm assuming this has been asked and answered before, so sorry in advance.

I am playing as a Level 1 Dwarf at the moment. As such, a can roll a 1d3 on top of the 1d20 and add the total of the d3 to the hit and dmg if I hit.

According to the rules, When the dwarf has multiple attacks at 4th level, the same attack die applies to all attacks in the same combat round.

And for shield bash When fighting with a shield, a dwarf always gains a shield bash as a second attack. This shield bash uses a d14 to hit (instead of
a d20). The dwarf adds his attack die to this number, as with all attacks, and can attempt Mighty Deeds of Arms involving the shield as well as his weapon.


The Shield Bash says that I can attempt a Deed with the shield, implying that I roll a new d3 when attacking with the shield. Yet the attack die rule says the same attack die applies to all attack in the same round. So, my question is how is this ruled? Would I roll the 1d20+1d3+STR while swinging with a Handaxe. And then use whatever I rolled the d3 with the Shield Bash? and if the d3 is a 3, would be able to do a deed with the Shield on top of the deed I could do with the Handaxe? Or would I roll 1d14+1d3+STR and take the new d3?

User avatar
GnomeBoy
Tyrant Master (Administrator)
Posts: 3585
Joined: Fri Mar 10, 2006 1:46 pm
FLGS: Bizarro World
Location: Left Coast, USA
Contact:

Re: Dwarf Shield Bash and Attack Die

Post by GnomeBoy » Wed Jan 15, 2020 6:44 am

Think of it as "same die type"... Yes, you use the d3 with all your attacks for the Dwarf; it is their attack bonus. An Elf's 1st Level attack bonus is a +1, and you wouldn't only use it for some* attacks, you'd use it for all attacks they make. The shield bash definitely gets that bonus. At 1st Level they can often miss with the shield bash, but as they level-up, it gets more potent...


----------------
* That said, there could be specific circumstances that the Judge rules you don't get your attack bonus. I've never seen such circumstances, but maybe they exist.... it's the nature of DCC.
Gnome Boy • DCC playtester @ DDC 35 Feb '11. • Beta DL 2111, 7AM PT, 8 June 11.
Playing RPGs since '77 • Quasi-occasional member of the Legion of 8th-Level Fighters.

Link: Here Be 100+ DCC Monsters

bygrinstow.com

Kuruz, Mendicant, N • AC 8, 4 hp • R-1, F0, W0 • S9 A8 S9 P11 I16 L8
Zend, Grave Digger, L • AC 9, 3 hp • R-1, F0, W1 • S14 A6 S9 P13 I13 L6
Mercer, Outlaw, N • AC 12, 2 hp • R0, F-1, W1 • S7 A9 S6 P13 I8 L13
Dejah, Ropemaker, C • AC 10, 3 hp • R0, F1, W-1 • S8 A12 S15 P7 I11 L7

Starbeard
Far-Sighted Wanderer
Posts: 25
Joined: Wed May 29, 2019 7:43 pm
FLGS: Brookhurst Hobbies

Re: Dwarf Shield Bash and Attack Die

Post by Starbeard » Wed Jan 15, 2020 8:00 am

I think the wording is intended to confirm that while your normal attacks may not use the same attack die type (one with a d20 and the other with a d14), they still use the same deed die type for all of your attacks.

If you used the same result of the deed die, then all of your deeds of the round would succeed or fail together, which isn't great: "My dwarf will try to disarm the troll with a sturdy whack of his mace… Deed Die rolls a 2, drat! Okay, for my dwarf's other attack against the second troll, he'll… oh, it doesn't matter, he rolled a 2 anyway. Okay, for his shield bash against the second troll, he'll… ah, nevermind."

BanjoJohn
Wild-Eyed Zealot
Posts: 86
Joined: Sun Sep 20, 2015 6:00 pm
FLGS: there are a few but I dont really consider any of them as my main flgs

Re: Dwarf Shield Bash and Attack Die

Post by BanjoJohn » Wed Jan 15, 2020 10:48 am

I think you'd only be allowed to attempt one deed per turn anyways. A warrior with an extra action die to use for an extra attack each turn would still only get to perform one deed a turn, so a dwarf with a regular attack and a shield bash will only get to attempt one deed a turn as well.

As for adding bonuses together.

If you are level 1, roll 1d3 for your deed die only once for the attack round.
Roll 1d20 for your regular attack.
Roll 1d14 for your shield bash.

Both your regular attack, and shield bash, get the same "attack bonus" from your deed die, as well as a "damage bonnus" from your deed die.

thogard
Wild-Eyed Zealot
Posts: 77
Joined: Sun Apr 01, 2012 9:52 am
Location: Austin, TX
Contact:

Re: Dwarf Shield Bash and Attack Die

Post by thogard » Wed Jan 15, 2020 2:18 pm

RAW a warrior/dwarf can attempt a reed with any attack, so I wouldn't limit to one per round.

I waver a bit on the multiple attack deed die issue. I'm leaning at the moment towards this: one deed die for the round if it makes sense as one action or deed attempt (say, the dwarf hitting high with their axe and low with their shield for a trip, or a warrior trying a pushback or blind with both attacks), individual for separate actions if applicable (for example, a disarm of one opponent followed by a throw of another, roll the deed die for each).

User avatar
GnomeBoy
Tyrant Master (Administrator)
Posts: 3585
Joined: Fri Mar 10, 2006 1:46 pm
FLGS: Bizarro World
Location: Left Coast, USA
Contact:

Re: Dwarf Shield Bash and Attack Die

Post by GnomeBoy » Wed Jan 15, 2020 6:22 pm

I think Deeds are much on a par with spells. One good roll on a Color Spray (1st Level spell) can take out and/or hinder multiple foes. Two Deeds in a round can hope to do that (takes a succession of good rolls). True, Warriors can't lose their Deeds -- but they don't have options like Spellburn, either.
Gnome Boy • DCC playtester @ DDC 35 Feb '11. • Beta DL 2111, 7AM PT, 8 June 11.
Playing RPGs since '77 • Quasi-occasional member of the Legion of 8th-Level Fighters.

Link: Here Be 100+ DCC Monsters

bygrinstow.com

Kuruz, Mendicant, N • AC 8, 4 hp • R-1, F0, W0 • S9 A8 S9 P11 I16 L8
Zend, Grave Digger, L • AC 9, 3 hp • R-1, F0, W1 • S14 A6 S9 P13 I13 L6
Mercer, Outlaw, N • AC 12, 2 hp • R0, F-1, W1 • S7 A9 S6 P13 I8 L13
Dejah, Ropemaker, C • AC 10, 3 hp • R0, F1, W-1 • S8 A12 S15 P7 I11 L7

BanjoJohn
Wild-Eyed Zealot
Posts: 86
Joined: Sun Sep 20, 2015 6:00 pm
FLGS: there are a few but I dont really consider any of them as my main flgs

Re: Dwarf Shield Bash and Attack Die

Post by BanjoJohn » Thu Jan 16, 2020 11:41 am

RAW, it says declare A deed before any attack, but not declare A deed for EVERY attack. So I see a gray area based on RAW as to whether you can do more than one deed or not, but everything I read implies that you declare A deed, one deed, not one per attack.

User avatar
GnomeBoy
Tyrant Master (Administrator)
Posts: 3585
Joined: Fri Mar 10, 2006 1:46 pm
FLGS: Bizarro World
Location: Left Coast, USA
Contact:

Re: Dwarf Shield Bash and Attack Die

Post by GnomeBoy » Thu Jan 16, 2020 12:24 pm

So even when a Warrior gets a second Action Die, they still only get one Deed?

I'd much prefer to see Warriors having attained that level of prowess really be able to show off and REALLY stand out from their lower-leveled versions....
Gnome Boy • DCC playtester @ DDC 35 Feb '11. • Beta DL 2111, 7AM PT, 8 June 11.
Playing RPGs since '77 • Quasi-occasional member of the Legion of 8th-Level Fighters.

Link: Here Be 100+ DCC Monsters

bygrinstow.com

Kuruz, Mendicant, N • AC 8, 4 hp • R-1, F0, W0 • S9 A8 S9 P11 I16 L8
Zend, Grave Digger, L • AC 9, 3 hp • R-1, F0, W1 • S14 A6 S9 P13 I13 L6
Mercer, Outlaw, N • AC 12, 2 hp • R0, F-1, W1 • S7 A9 S6 P13 I8 L13
Dejah, Ropemaker, C • AC 10, 3 hp • R0, F1, W-1 • S8 A12 S15 P7 I11 L7

BanjoJohn
Wild-Eyed Zealot
Posts: 86
Joined: Sun Sep 20, 2015 6:00 pm
FLGS: there are a few but I dont really consider any of them as my main flgs

Re: Dwarf Shield Bash and Attack Die

Post by BanjoJohn » Thu Jan 16, 2020 1:12 pm

When your warrior reaches level 5, getting a second action die, what you get is..
1d20 for first action, 1d14 for second.
1d7 for deed die
18-20 threat range
1d24 on the crit table 5


Compared to say.. a level 2 warrior
1d20 for action die
1d4 deed die
19-20 threat range
1d14 on crit table 3

So being a higher level warrior, you "show off" by having a higher chance of critical hits than a lower level warrior, even more powerful critical hits because of rolling a larger die on a higher tier crit table. Your deed die is higher, so instead of having a max +4 to hit/damage, you have a max of +7 to hit/damage. And, if you do roll 5-6-7 on your deed die, chances are you're going to hit with your second attack and deal that much more damage.

And, if you are using the mighty deed tables starting on page 89, or are just being inspired by this and your Judge allows more powerful deed effects based on the deed die roll, you get access to even more powerful mighty deed effects by being able to roll higher with your deed die.

User avatar
GnomeBoy
Tyrant Master (Administrator)
Posts: 3585
Joined: Fri Mar 10, 2006 1:46 pm
FLGS: Bizarro World
Location: Left Coast, USA
Contact:

Re: Dwarf Shield Bash and Attack Die

Post by GnomeBoy » Thu Jan 16, 2020 6:55 pm

Okay.

For me, it comes down to this: the real beauty of the Mighty Deed of Arms is in getting players engaged in ways that simply "attacking" doesn't. It engages their creativity and let's them push the situation — and sometimes the whole adventure — in directions I'd never have expected.

And I'm going to give them as much room to do that as possible, because in my direct experience that's always a session that's more fun to play.
Gnome Boy • DCC playtester @ DDC 35 Feb '11. • Beta DL 2111, 7AM PT, 8 June 11.
Playing RPGs since '77 • Quasi-occasional member of the Legion of 8th-Level Fighters.

Link: Here Be 100+ DCC Monsters

bygrinstow.com

Kuruz, Mendicant, N • AC 8, 4 hp • R-1, F0, W0 • S9 A8 S9 P11 I16 L8
Zend, Grave Digger, L • AC 9, 3 hp • R-1, F0, W1 • S14 A6 S9 P13 I13 L6
Mercer, Outlaw, N • AC 12, 2 hp • R0, F-1, W1 • S7 A9 S6 P13 I8 L13
Dejah, Ropemaker, C • AC 10, 3 hp • R0, F1, W-1 • S8 A12 S15 P7 I11 L7

BanjoJohn
Wild-Eyed Zealot
Posts: 86
Joined: Sun Sep 20, 2015 6:00 pm
FLGS: there are a few but I dont really consider any of them as my main flgs

Re: Dwarf Shield Bash and Attack Die

Post by BanjoJohn » Fri Jan 17, 2020 6:04 am

I can support that idea. The book is only a guide and not a commandment.

Post Reply

Return to “Characters”