Goodman Games and 4E

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goodmangames
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Goodman Games and 4E

Post by goodmangames » Tue Jan 08, 2008 7:31 pm

By now you've probably all seen the announcement on EN World: the 4th edition open game license is officially announced! Goodman Games is excited to be on board, and we will be part of 4E from the launch.

It will all start with Free RPG Day, the event that Goodman Games created and which Wizards of the Coast is heavily sponsoring this year. Look for another free DCC -- this time 4th edition -- on June 21 from participating stores.

After that it's going to be a very big Gen Con, for a number of reasons. First, it will be the fifth anniversary of our DCC Open Tournament, and we're making it special. The module is already being crafted and it's a real challenge. The bar for competition will rise as we add more tables and more players than ever before. And of course there will be the fun fact that most people will only have a few months of experience with the game, which will level the playing field.

The second big aspect of Gen Con will be our releases. Of course Dungeon Crawl Classics will be well represented in the first wave of 4E releases. We are having some fun with the concept, and the presentation of the DCC series will change a little. I like to joke that we're upgrading from a 1E look to a 2E look. The same basic concepts will be there, and the adventures will be designed by the same talented writers, but you will be immediately able to distinguish a 4E DCC from a 3E DCC. And I think you'll like the new look.

Aside from the DCC series, we'll have some other fun products, too, but those details will be forthcoming in the future. Many of you know that I often prefer to post about a product only when I have something to show off, so we'll be announcing more details as we get the great cover designs polished up.

For those of you worried about your favorite lines, fear not. Here's a quick run down on what's in the works, some in the near future, some further out...

Xcrawl: Brendan is hard at work on an Xcrawl boxed set. Yes, you heard it right. This new envisioning of the Xcrawl world will include some "non-book elements" and will realize the game's true potential as an action-packed RPG. Look for this late in the year.

Wicked Fantasy Factory: The WFF series has garnered a lot of fans and will move into 4E. More to come on that.

Other products: I'm usually not a big fan of licenses, but there's a great comic book I've been reading lately that would be a perfect fit into our line. This may or may not come about, depending on how the negotiations go, but it will be awesome if it comes together. Enough said on that. Those of you who read the catalogue poster in Castle Whiterock carefully may have noticed the blurb on Spellburn. Look for this game of "western fantasy" to be part of our 4E lineup. And of course the opportunity for a new edition always presents the opportunity for a lot of new products in general, which will be revealed in the time to come.

I hope that answers some of the questions that have been floating around for some time. If you guys have anything that I missed, ask away!
Joseph Goodman
Goodman Games
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Post by Jeff LaSala » Wed Jan 09, 2008 5:35 am

I'm very glad to hear that Goodman Games is on the table front and center with 4th Edition. I can't wait to see what comes of it!
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Post by ynnen » Wed Jan 09, 2008 6:14 am

I was excited to talk to Joseph about 4E and the direction Goodman Games is going in with the new edition. It's a thrill and a privilege to be on board and be able to contribute to the first wave of content being produced for our fans -- those who have already gotten a taste for the Goodman Games product line will be thrilled with the new content, and I'm sure we'll attract a lot of new fans, as well.

It's an exciting time to be an RPG fanatic! (and writer!)
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Post by fathead » Wed Jan 09, 2008 9:41 am

Awesome. As always, I'm looking forward to more on the DCC line.

This time, I'll definitely be there for the Free RPG game day to pick up the DCC module (if only to avoid having to pay $8 for it on Ebay). An open invititation - anyone in the Lexington, KY area, send me a PM! We'll bring a big group to the local game store!

Also, stop tempting us by mentioning the DCC tournament this early...you're killing me.

Anyway, thanks for the post Joseph! Looking forward to seeing what is next out of the Goodman Games mill.
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Post by Jengenritz » Wed Jan 09, 2008 9:58 am

You know, this announcement is going to make Gen Con pretty exciting...I see it like an episode of Iron Chef, where the secret ingredient is "4E Rules" and instead of an hour we have from late January to August.

"What inspiration will the other companies bring? And how will the DCC authors fight back? The heat will be on!"

Aw yeah...Iron Chef Dungeoncrawl...I like that.

NARRATOR: "Iron Chef Dungeoncrawl counters with two modules, with delicate but tasteful cover art and a surprising, twist-ending finish."

PRETTY ACTRESS: "It makes my dice happy!"

MEMBER OF PARLIAMENT: "I really like what they've done here. This scenario...it's unique. Could use more gnomes, though, but I like it."

PSYCHIC: "Iron Chef Dungeoncrawl...they've really captured the essence of this classic motif...but brought something new to it with these rules. It's like an old friend in new clothes..."

THE CHAIRMAN: (not translated)
Also, stop tempting us by mentioning the DCC tournament this early...you're killing me.
Not yet, we're not. Wait until August.
Co-Author: The Almanac of the Endless Traders, DCC #13, DCC #29, DCC #49, DCC #51, DCC #52, DCC #63

Author: DCC #55: Isle of the Sea Drake, DCC #61: Citadel of the Corruptor, more to come....

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4e DCC and WFF

Post by joela » Wed Jan 09, 2008 10:22 am

Great to here GG's porting over, especially WFF.

I may buy a few modules; I bought so much GG stuff from a going-out-of-business sale that I've got several lifetimes of material in 3.5. I'll probably go the C&C route and convert stuff until my players (or myself) scream to fully switch over to 4e.
What do you mean no?

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Post by CharlieRock » Wed Jan 09, 2008 12:09 pm

So Xcrawl is going to be compatible with 4e? Or is it going to be a stand alone game? What about old Xcrawl stuff?
Roll for initiative!!!

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Post by goodmangames » Wed Jan 09, 2008 7:07 pm

Right now we're looking at a 4E-compatible version of Xcrawl. To the extent that 3E material is compatible with 4E, so will the prior Xcrawl material be compatible -- much of the world background and flavor will all be portable, as well as the mechanics insofar as 3E bridges to 4E. In world terms we're thinking of it as a "new season" of Xcrawl -- one of the beauties of the Xcrawl system is that because the game itself is about a game, you can easily explain "real life" rules changes. From last season to this season, the rules changed...
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Post by Whizbang Dustyboots » Thu Jan 10, 2008 8:37 am

I'm thrilled to hear you guys are on board. I'm looking forward to hearing more details about the free module. How cool that you'll have one of the very first 4E adventures out there, just in time for everyone to start playing!

I do hope that, in 2009, you guys consider revising the best of your 3E work for 4E.

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Post by GnomeBoy » Thu Jan 10, 2008 9:27 am

I'm very interested to see what the '2e upgrade' to the DCC graphic style will look like.

I'm very fond of the current style, since I'm vastly more fond of the early 1e mods than anything that came after, say, 1981 (by which time I wasn't playing D&D, or really any other RPG, until about 1987). I don't think it would particularly dampen my appreciation of the DCC's, since they are so fun and well done. But on a design basis, I might have to wait until the advent of 5e to love the look of DCC's again, since you'll be getting Wayne Reynolds to do covers to capture that '3e feel'. :D

Of course, I'm just guessing. Maybe the new look won't be what I'm thinking it might be....

Jengenritz wrote:PRETTY ACTRESS: "It makes my dice happy!"
:lol: That is infinitly sigable.
Gnome Boy • DCC playtester @ DDC 35 Feb '11. • Beta DL 2111, 7AM PT, 8 June 11.
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Kuruz, Mendicant, N • AC 8, 4 hp • R-1, F0, W0 • S9 A8 S9 P11 I16 L8
Zend, Grave Digger, L • AC 9, 3 hp • R-1, F0, W1 • S14 A6 S9 P13 I13 L6
Mercer, Outlaw, N • AC 12, 2 hp • R0, F-1, W1 • S7 A9 S6 P13 I8 L13
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Post by Treebore » Thu Jan 10, 2008 9:40 am

Glad to hear your still going to be "in business" Joe.
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Re: Goodman Games and 4E

Post by mythfish » Fri Jan 11, 2008 8:02 am

goodmangames wrote: It will all start with Free RPG Day, the event that Goodman Games created and which Wizards of the Coast is heavily sponsoring this year. Look for another free DCC -- this time 4th edition -- on June 21 from participating stores.
You're releasing a 4e DCC on June 21? They're letting you release even before the Aug 1 date everyone else has to wait for? Cool. I suppose you get to do that because you're not "selling" it or something?
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Post by Mike_Ferguson » Fri Jan 11, 2008 8:34 am

The announcement stated somewhere in the fine print that promotional materials - meaning free stuff - can be produced and distributed prior to August 1.

From ENWorld:
Will the Phase One program make subsequent releases (the PHB 2, for instance) available to publishers more quickly?

No, it won't. The program only applies to the games’ launch and the first three core books. However, we will likely allow Phase One developers to distribute free 4e material on Free RPG Day, and to show (but not sell) sample books at Origins.

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Re: Goodman Games and 4E

Post by fathead » Fri Jan 11, 2008 8:35 am

mythfish wrote: You're releasing a 4e DCC on June 21? They're letting you release even before the Aug 1 date everyone else has to wait for? Cool. I suppose you get to do that because you're not "selling" it or something?
Yeah...I read on Enworld that they're allowed to release 4E product for the Free RPG day.

Here is the text:

9. Will the Phase One program make subsequent releases (the PHB 2, for instance) available to publishers more quickly?

No, it won't. The program only applies to the games’ launch and the first three core books. However, we will likely allow Phase One developers to distribute free 4e material on Free RPG Day, and to show (but not sell) sample books at Origins.
Last edited by fathead on Fri Jan 11, 2008 8:41 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by mythfish » Fri Jan 11, 2008 8:40 am

Mike_Ferguson wrote:The announcement stated somewhere in the fine print that promotional materials - meaning free stuff - can be produced and distributed prior to August 1.

From ENWorld:
Will the Phase One program make subsequent releases (the PHB 2, for instance) available to publishers more quickly?

No, it won't. The program only applies to the games’ launch and the first three core books. However, we will likely allow Phase One developers to distribute free 4e material on Free RPG Day, and to show (but not sell) sample books at Origins.
Oh, I read that ENWorld thing and totally missed that. Probably because the information was hidden in the answer to a question that didn't really interest me. :)
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its too bad

Post by realtroll » Fri Jan 11, 2008 12:10 pm

I'm sorry, but the DCC's won't be the same in to me in version 4.0. #52 will be my last purchase. It was a good run.

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Post by CharlieRock » Fri Jan 11, 2008 6:56 pm

goodmangames wrote:Right now we're looking at a 4E-compatible version of Xcrawl. To the extent that 3E material is compatible with 4E, so will the prior Xcrawl material be compatible -- much of the world background and flavor will all be portable, as well as the mechanics insofar as 3E bridges to 4E. In world terms we're thinking of it as a "new season" of Xcrawl -- one of the beauties of the Xcrawl system is that because the game itself is about a game, you can easily explain "real life" rules changes. From last season to this season, the rules changed...
From what I've read compatibility is going to be extremely difficult.
Roll for initiative!!!

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Re: its too bad

Post by catsclaw227 » Sun Jan 13, 2008 5:27 pm

realtroll wrote:I'm sorry, but the DCC's won't be the same in to me in version 4.0. #52 will be my last purchase. It was a good run.
I'm not sure how it's possible to feel that way without seeing one first. But I suppose if you're in the 'no 4e no matter what, even though I have never seen the rules" group, then I can understand.

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asking: can we have our cake and eat it to?

Post by AvatarArt » Tue Jan 15, 2008 6:31 am

goodmangames wrote: you will be immediately able to distinguish a 4E DCC from a 3E DCC.
I think this is a great idea, not only to help fans figure out whats-what at a glance, but also in keeping with the "flavor" of D&D's history as well. Bravo.
Whizbang Dustyboots wrote:I do hope that, in 2009, you guys consider revising the best of your 3E work for 4E.
And vice versa. That is, please consider releasing some of the titles for 3rd edition. I mean, essentially the main changes would be stat blocks right? If you had two versions of the same adventure (with the aforementioned cover variation to easily separate which is which) you can have a wider market for each release.

Granted, there'd be 2 different printings, but spending a little more time/$ in the short run making the modules helps the fan base that is not converting, to continue buying past #52, thereby helping the DCC line in the long run.
goodmangames wrote:Other products: If you guys have anything that I missed, ask away!
Actually, yes. I am very excited about GM Gems http://www.goodman-games.com/4371preview.php and would love to see more 'system neutral' material.

Thanks for reading.

Steve G.
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Post by Whizbang Dustyboots » Wed Jan 16, 2008 1:44 am

It's not just stat blocks. 3E is balanced around a smaller number of enemies. 4E assumes there will be a much larger number of enemies in each battle. In addition, there are a number of terrain rules for 4E that would either need to be recreated for 3E (and reprinted every time), or encounters would need to be rewritten and rebalanced with the terrain effects removed in the 3E version.

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numbers game

Post by AvatarArt » Wed Jan 16, 2008 12:23 pm

I thought one of the key points for 4th ed was the 'streamlining' of the rules. If you have a lot more monsters, that would seem to slow things down as well. But anywho.

Aren't there enough terrain modifiers for 3rd ed?

I guess what I'm saying is that given the decent percentage of the D&D fanbase not swtiching, to have 2 sets of stat blocks, rules, & covers would seem to create only slightly more work given an end result of having 2 groups of gamers to sell to.

The interior art, the maps, the hanouts, the plot, etc. would all stay the same. I'd think those are the most time-intensive to create. For the NPCs and monsters, just swap the numbers.

i.e. a DCC writer has the descriptive text which applies to both versions, then puts, "insert 3rd/4th ed black dragon here" in the notes for an editor, who fills in the appropriate stats as necessary. The art for this black dragon is used in both versions, as is the map showing where it is.

Make sense?

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Post by Jeff LaSala » Wed Jan 16, 2008 12:33 pm

I don't know, AvatarArt. Stats blocks can take more time than you think. Putting out two versions of something as massive as Castle Whiterock, for example, would be pretty labor intensive. (Then again, we don't yet know how easy they are in 4E. Maybe it wouldn't be so hard.)
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Post by DCCfan » Wed Jan 16, 2008 7:25 pm

I plan on going to GENCON this year with my son. If we want to play test 4E will you walk us through the new version at the DCC classic? I guess what I'm really asking is do we have to purchase the core books just to play or can we buy an event ticket and show up to learn the 4E game?

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Post by goodmangames » Sun Jan 20, 2008 9:34 am

DCCfan wrote:I plan on going to GENCON this year with my son. If we want to play test 4E will you walk us through the new version at the DCC classic? I guess what I'm really asking is do we have to purchase the core books just to play or can we buy an event ticket and show up to learn the 4E game?
Good question. Traditionally our DCC games are oriented toward people who already know the basic rules, but this year we'll have a lot of people new to 4E. I assume that WotC will have some introductory 4E games, but we'll have to see. When we start scheduling DCC events I'll take into account the newness factor of 4E and try to find room for some introductory events.

The DCC tournament will most definitely not be the place for 4E newbies. Like every year, it will be a difficult adventure, and we're designing it on the assumption that participants have some 4E experience. (About 3-4 months of play time is the basic assumption, since that's the most anyone could have by the time Gen Con rolls around.)
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Post by zombiekiller » Sun Jan 20, 2008 6:03 pm

DCCs that showcase what is new/different in 4E (especially for low level characters) would be great.

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