Mercurial Magic - Who uses it?
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- Blood Axe
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Mercurial Magic - Who uses it?
Who uses Mercurial Magic efects? Do use it extensively? For each new spell??
To defend: This is the Pact.
But when life loses its value,
and is taken for naught -
then the Pact is to Avenge.
But when life loses its value,
and is taken for naught -
then the Pact is to Avenge.
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Re: Mercurial Magic - Who uses it?
When I'm the Judge I allow the players to use or ignore 'em, whichever they prefer.
I know as a player they've come in handy: http://www.goodman-games.com/forums/vie ... 012#p98012
I know as a player they've come in handy: http://www.goodman-games.com/forums/vie ... 012#p98012
No sooner had we started in that direction than a bunch of free floating partial torsoed vaporous apparitions (like the ones that wiped out all the Nazis at the end of Raiders of the Lost Ark) swept down on us. One of the Warriors and my Elf were not only attacked but grabbed and hauled high up into the air. I cast Color Spray, chiefly because its mercurial magic effect was to slip me out of phase for 1d6 rounds, which allowed me to escape both my captor and any damage from the fall.
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Re: Mercurial Magic - Who uses it?
I see how it could be beneficial, but ive seen results that really limit a spell also.
Example , a combat spell that could cause you to fall asleep.
Example , a combat spell that could cause you to fall asleep.
To defend: This is the Pact.
But when life loses its value,
and is taken for naught -
then the Pact is to Avenge.
But when life loses its value,
and is taken for naught -
then the Pact is to Avenge.
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Re: Mercurial Magic - Who uses it?
I use them. Every time a wizard or elf learns a spell, the mercurial effect for that spell must be rolled.
In some cases, PCs cast spells for the mercurial effect. In other cases, the mercurial effect causes them to avoid casting certain spells. It certainly makes Joe Wizard seem different from Bob Wizard.
In some cases, PCs cast spells for the mercurial effect. In other cases, the mercurial effect causes them to avoid casting certain spells. It certainly makes Joe Wizard seem different from Bob Wizard.
SoBH pbp:
Cathbad the Meek (herbalist Wizard 1): AC 9; 4 hp; S 7, A 7, St 10, P 17, I 13, L 8; Neutral; Club, herbs, 50' rope, 50 cp; -1 to melee attack rolls. Hideous scar.
Cathbad the Meek (herbalist Wizard 1): AC 9; 4 hp; S 7, A 7, St 10, P 17, I 13, L 8; Neutral; Club, herbs, 50' rope, 50 cp; -1 to melee attack rolls. Hideous scar.
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Re: Mercurial Magic - Who uses it?
I love Mercurial Magic.
There, I said it. It's like a weight* has been lifted off of me!
- - - - - - - - - -
* The weight was mostly a side effect from a Mercurial Magic roll...
There, I said it. It's like a weight* has been lifted off of me!
- - - - - - - - - -
* The weight was mostly a side effect from a Mercurial Magic roll...
...
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Gnome Boy • DCC playtester @ DDC 35 Feb '11. • Beta DL 2111, 7AM PT, 8 June 11.
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Link: Here Be 100+ DCC Monsters
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Re: Mercurial Magic - Who uses it?
I love it. Loads of fun. I love it despite being afflicted too many times with mercurial magic effects like hairy magic (no.33), rush of wind (no.20), rain of frogs (no.88) and blood sweat (no.39)
I gotta change my dice.....
I gotta change my dice.....
Re: Mercurial Magic - Who uses it?
I absolutely use it. I also created another d100 table of them so that I have twice as many possible random effects.
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Re: Mercurial Magic - Who uses it?
And where is said table, goode Ser...cjoepar wrote:I absolutely use it. I also created another d100 table of them so that I have twice as many possible random effects.
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Re: Mercurial Magic - Who uses it?
I use it, and my Wizard player both loathes and likes these effects!
Ah well, who wants to live forever? DIE!
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Re: Mercurial Magic - Who uses it?
Never really came to me that you could play DCC without using the mercurial effects. Absolutely adore them.
Re: Mercurial Magic - Who uses it?
I absolutely love mercurial magic and the twists and conundrums it presents for the players. Like corruption, Patron Taint, and mutations; the players are prevented from approaching their characters as a stat-block and forces them to play the character as a person trying to deal with these often heinous afflictions. For me, this alone is reason enough to play DCCRPG... the rest is just icing & sprinkles on top.
One of the wizards in my games had this:
He also had:
He also had 1d30 as his casting die for his Sleep spell and could have easily waltzed his way through DCC #1 without ever having to kill anything; and they'd have been through it in a quarter of the time. But, he decided not to do this just so he could annoy the pacifist cleric of Elyr the healer. some of the best Role-play sessions I've ever seen.
For me the only down side to the Mercurial Magic is that I often forget to enforce it.
One of the wizards in my games had this:
This was the MM effect for contacting his Patron Aristemis, Patroness of Battle Wizards. Which he would use as often as he could to amp is Magic Missile spell.95) Psychic focus. Casting this spell clears the caster’s mind and prepares him to channel further energy. For 1d4 rounds after the spell is cast, the wizard receives a +4 bonus to other spell checks. This effect does not stack with itself. (cr115)
He also had:
as the MM effect for his magic missile spell; when combined with the casters level and +3 INT bonus... well, there was a reason he was known as 'Thingerlun the Spell Cannon'. However, Thingerlun couldn't cast Cantrip without his INT score dropping to 3 and reverting to a Neanderthal. (MM #16, cr111) It was the ultimate in humiliation for the character and made for some seriously cool moments when he'd forget...84) Energy burst. When successfully casting this spell, the wizard is surrounded by a burst of energy. Roll 1d6: ... (2) crackles of electricity, which arc to the nearest enemy within 10’ and cause 1d6 damage; ... (cr115)
He also had 1d30 as his casting die for his Sleep spell and could have easily waltzed his way through DCC #1 without ever having to kill anything; and they'd have been through it in a quarter of the time. But, he decided not to do this just so he could annoy the pacifist cleric of Elyr the healer. some of the best Role-play sessions I've ever seen.
For me the only down side to the Mercurial Magic is that I often forget to enforce it.
Them's the breaks... as the used to say. Handicaps force the players to new levels of creativity.Blood Axe wrote:I see how it could be beneficial, but ive seen results that really limit a spell also.
Example , a combat spell that could cause you to fall asleep.
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Re: Mercurial Magic - Who uses it?
It all fits in your game & view of magic. If you want completely random magic effect (and thats what mercurial) is) then thats good. It just doesnt fit my vision to randomly empower /weaken a spell.
To defend: This is the Pact.
But when life loses its value,
and is taken for naught -
then the Pact is to Avenge.
But when life loses its value,
and is taken for naught -
then the Pact is to Avenge.
Re: Mercurial Magic - Who uses it?
I suppose you're right, and perspective really does matter. The thing is, I don't really see the DCC magic system as all that random.
Imagine for a moment that each wizard's mind is simply a lens. As the caster learns spells this is equivalent to introducing specific flaws and fractures into the lens. As the caster summons the raw forces of magic and shines it through the lens of their mind, the fractures and flaws create the spell's effects. The greater the level and skill of the caster, the more light they can force through the lens, the more powerful the manifestation effect. Mercurial magic (under this paradigm) is nothing more than the unfocused excess arcane energies finding their own way of discharging. Looking at it this way, I see patron taints, corruptions, and mutations acting to distort or recreate the lens as an out-growth of events. [pun intended] Since every caster is as unique as a finger-print; no spell could ever manifest the same way. At least, that's my 'in-game' explanation for curious characters.
Also... If a wizard tries to learn too many spells, or use magic that is too powerful for your level and the lens shatters.
Imagine for a moment that each wizard's mind is simply a lens. As the caster learns spells this is equivalent to introducing specific flaws and fractures into the lens. As the caster summons the raw forces of magic and shines it through the lens of their mind, the fractures and flaws create the spell's effects. The greater the level and skill of the caster, the more light they can force through the lens, the more powerful the manifestation effect. Mercurial magic (under this paradigm) is nothing more than the unfocused excess arcane energies finding their own way of discharging. Looking at it this way, I see patron taints, corruptions, and mutations acting to distort or recreate the lens as an out-growth of events. [pun intended] Since every caster is as unique as a finger-print; no spell could ever manifest the same way. At least, that's my 'in-game' explanation for curious characters.
Also... If a wizard tries to learn too many spells, or use magic that is too powerful for your level and the lens shatters.
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Re: Mercurial Magic - Who uses it?
Dcc magic might not be random, but Mercurial magic is. It just doesnt fit with my vision. I dont imagine a great wizard like Gandalf casting spells and thousands of mice coming from his robes. Just me.
If its fun, and you like it, use it!
If its fun, and you like it, use it!
To defend: This is the Pact.
But when life loses its value,
and is taken for naught -
then the Pact is to Avenge.
But when life loses its value,
and is taken for naught -
then the Pact is to Avenge.
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Re: Mercurial Magic - Who uses it?
Gandalf obviously rolled better on the table!Blood Axe wrote:Dcc magic might not be random, but Mercurial magic is. It just doesnt fit with my vision. I dont imagine a great wizard like Gandalf casting spells and thousands of mice coming from his robes. Just me.
If its fun, and you like it, use it!
Re: Mercurial Magic - Who uses it?
You're right, if the players at my table didn't want to bother with it, then I wouldn't force it on them.Blood Axe wrote:Dcc magic might not be random, but Mercurial magic is. It just doesnt fit with my vision. I dont imagine a great wizard like Gandalf casting spells and thousands of mice coming from his robes. Just me.
If its fun, and you like it, use it!
Though Gandalf is a bad example... It's been a while since I read the Silmarillion, but as I recall, Gandalf isn't quite Human and has had something more than 3000 years to practice.
LotR has low-key magic any how; so if I were going to run a Middle Earth style DCC game I would totally dial down the 'weird factor' on the magic.
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Re: Mercurial Magic - Who uses it?
Mercurial magic seems like fun. DCC suggests that magic is unpredictable. It can be incredibly powerful, or simply let the caster down. MM is along that line.Blood Axe wrote:Dcc magic might not be random, but Mercurial magic is. It just doesnt fit with my vision. I dont imagine a great wizard like Gandalf casting spells and thousands of mice coming from his robes. Just me.
If its fun, and you like it, use it!
But, as you say, you can use and drop whatever rule you like/dislike.
Maledict Brothbreath, level 4 warrior, STR 16 (+2) AGI 7 (-1) STA 12 PER 9 INT 10 LUCK 15 (+1), AC: 16 Refl: +1 Fort: +2 Will: +1; lawful; Armor of the Lion and Lily's Blade.
Brother Sufferus, level 4 cleric, STR 13 (+1) AGI 15 (+1) STA 11 PER 13 (+1) INT 10 LUCK 9, AC: 11 (13 if wounded, 15 if down to half hit points), Refl: +3 Fort: +2 Will: +3, chaotic, Robe of the Faith, Scourge of the Maimed One, Darts of Pain.
Brother Sufferus, level 4 cleric, STR 13 (+1) AGI 15 (+1) STA 11 PER 13 (+1) INT 10 LUCK 9, AC: 11 (13 if wounded, 15 if down to half hit points), Refl: +3 Fort: +2 Will: +3, chaotic, Robe of the Faith, Scourge of the Maimed One, Darts of Pain.
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Re: Mercurial Magic - Who uses it?
I feel like some of this discussion is casting the Mercurial Magic element into a different sphere than where I understand it's intent to be - as if MM says some Wizards can't cast a spell with a 'bad' MM result as well as another spellcaster could cast that same spell.
But I think the point of MM is not that when you try to cast Magic Missile (or whatever spell) that you foul it up and a thousand rats run out from under your robe. I think the point is that that is the version of that spell that you know. That's what you've been able to unlock with diligence and research and exploration. That rat-producing version is the one you have in hand, and you could try to learn a new version, but you've got to go through the same process as finding another spell altogether, since it would be another spell altogether.
Put another way, there are hundreds of versions of each spell, some rarer than others. Many have side effects that may or may not be good.
But I think the point of MM is not that when you try to cast Magic Missile (or whatever spell) that you foul it up and a thousand rats run out from under your robe. I think the point is that that is the version of that spell that you know. That's what you've been able to unlock with diligence and research and exploration. That rat-producing version is the one you have in hand, and you could try to learn a new version, but you've got to go through the same process as finding another spell altogether, since it would be another spell altogether.
Put another way, there are hundreds of versions of each spell, some rarer than others. Many have side effects that may or may not be good.
...
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Gnome Boy • DCC playtester @ DDC 35 Feb '11. • Beta DL 2111, 7AM PT, 8 June 11.
Playing RPGs since '77 • Quasi-occasional member of the Legion of 8th-Level Fighters.
Link: Here Be 100+ DCC Monsters
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Re: Mercurial Magic - Who uses it?
@GB> That's a great solution, and if it works go for it!
Unfortunately the second paragraph of the mercurial magic entry (cr110) says:
That statement, in context of the examples given in the first paragraph, led me down a totally different interpretation. Since no one really controls when or where they are born, or controls the heavens so as to re-align the stars, or re-set the order of their birth, &c.; I equated the whole process to something genetic, or fate driven. Like blue eyes, brown skin, or being born disabled, or into a rich and noble family; nothing any of us can do will change these things. So if MM is in use in my game, then it is rigidly enforced, and the characters must find a way to mitigate the effect if it is negative. Re-learning the spell won't help them.
However, I did come up with a way out of the problem if the player really wants a new MM effect for a spell. Building upon the idea that the manifestations and MM effects are at least quasi-biological... after each time a character gets corrupted, tainted, or mutated they can re-roll mercurial magic. The catch is that if they change one... they must change all of them. This is done on the grounds that they are no longer the same person as when they were born. It's really amazing how quickly someone will decide that a negative effect on one or two of their combat spells is suddenly quite tolerable if it means that they get to keep the 1d30 casting check for their Knock spell.
Besides, combat spells aren't a wizard's only weapon. A wizard's most dangerous weapon is their brain. I've spent most of my time playing wizards or their equivalent (in any game); and in D&D my three favorite spells of all time: Cantrip, Mage Hand, and Ventriloquism. Used creatively they are positively devastating.
Examples:
Cantrip - Things get messy when you transform one of the links in the chain holding up the heavy (and pointy) Gothic chandelier into peanut butter. Especially when it was 20ft over the head of the bad guys at the time. This trick is also useful for dealing with difficult doors and inconvenient bridges, as they have trouble staying in place when their hinges and locks; or a few critical rivets, have been turned into rice-paper.
Ventriloquism - Always rather handy for setting up the situation for the thief to take full advantage of their back-stabbing ability.
And if you think those are funny, you should see what happens when you pluck out some of the giant's a$$ hairs as he's swinging that big nasty club. Yay Mage Hand spell!!! I didn't even need to wash my hands when I was done.
And you should see the mischief I can get into when I gain access to the Permanency spell or the magic item creation tables...
Sadly, for these and other shenanigans through the years, I've been consistently labeled as a 'problem child' or 'munchkin' among other less polite names; and in one case I was even asked not to come back to the table.
Unfortunately the second paragraph of the mercurial magic entry (cr110) says:
Emphasis added...As a result, the effect of a magical spell varies according to who casts it. A magical rite invoked by one mage may be more powerful – or even different – than the same ritual exercised by a peer. These variegations are not predictable, as the subtleties that produce them can never be fully catalogued.
That statement, in context of the examples given in the first paragraph, led me down a totally different interpretation. Since no one really controls when or where they are born, or controls the heavens so as to re-align the stars, or re-set the order of their birth, &c.; I equated the whole process to something genetic, or fate driven. Like blue eyes, brown skin, or being born disabled, or into a rich and noble family; nothing any of us can do will change these things. So if MM is in use in my game, then it is rigidly enforced, and the characters must find a way to mitigate the effect if it is negative. Re-learning the spell won't help them.
However, I did come up with a way out of the problem if the player really wants a new MM effect for a spell. Building upon the idea that the manifestations and MM effects are at least quasi-biological... after each time a character gets corrupted, tainted, or mutated they can re-roll mercurial magic. The catch is that if they change one... they must change all of them. This is done on the grounds that they are no longer the same person as when they were born. It's really amazing how quickly someone will decide that a negative effect on one or two of their combat spells is suddenly quite tolerable if it means that they get to keep the 1d30 casting check for their Knock spell.
Besides, combat spells aren't a wizard's only weapon. A wizard's most dangerous weapon is their brain. I've spent most of my time playing wizards or their equivalent (in any game); and in D&D my three favorite spells of all time: Cantrip, Mage Hand, and Ventriloquism. Used creatively they are positively devastating.
Examples:
Cantrip - Things get messy when you transform one of the links in the chain holding up the heavy (and pointy) Gothic chandelier into peanut butter. Especially when it was 20ft over the head of the bad guys at the time. This trick is also useful for dealing with difficult doors and inconvenient bridges, as they have trouble staying in place when their hinges and locks; or a few critical rivets, have been turned into rice-paper.
Ventriloquism - Always rather handy for setting up the situation for the thief to take full advantage of their back-stabbing ability.
And if you think those are funny, you should see what happens when you pluck out some of the giant's a$$ hairs as he's swinging that big nasty club. Yay Mage Hand spell!!! I didn't even need to wash my hands when I was done.
And you should see the mischief I can get into when I gain access to the Permanency spell or the magic item creation tables...
Sadly, for these and other shenanigans through the years, I've been consistently labeled as a 'problem child' or 'munchkin' among other less polite names; and in one case I was even asked not to come back to the table.
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Re: Mercurial Magic - Who uses it?
Hunh. Okay, you got me there. I think I'm still tripping up on things from the playtest back in '11. I guess the good news is that I'm not completely senile! The bad news is that it's tripping me up...Tortog wrote:Unfortunately the second paragraph of the mercurial magic entry (cr110) says:
I'd've washed my hands anyway, but maybe that's just me. Ew.Tortog wrote:I didn't even need to wash my hands when I was done.
...
Gnome Boy • DCC playtester @ DDC 35 Feb '11. • Beta DL 2111, 7AM PT, 8 June 11.
Playing RPGs since '77 • Quasi-occasional member of the Legion of 8th-Level Fighters.
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Gnome Boy • DCC playtester @ DDC 35 Feb '11. • Beta DL 2111, 7AM PT, 8 June 11.
Playing RPGs since '77 • Quasi-occasional member of the Legion of 8th-Level Fighters.
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Re: Mercurial Magic - Who uses it?
I'm in the "always use mercurial magic" camp. It's one of the tasty things that makes DCC DCC for me. Then again, I haven't played a huge amount and the one wizard in the game I'm running didn't wind up with anything too debilitating, so that could be part of it. Though, to be fair, that player would run with whatever the rules threw at him because he's just that kind of guy.
Re: Mercurial Magic - Who uses it?
@ GB> No worries! Remember, "Thou shalt fear no rule!"
The way I see it, that means we're both right, because we're doing what works for us, because it's FUN. The same goes for Mercurial Magic... if someone finds it to be cumbersome don't use it. As long as things are consistent from the beginning there shouldn't be much trouble.
The way I see it, that means we're both right, because we're doing what works for us, because it's FUN. The same goes for Mercurial Magic... if someone finds it to be cumbersome don't use it. As long as things are consistent from the beginning there shouldn't be much trouble.
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Re: Mercurial Magic - Who uses it?
I just remembered the other thing I was going to say...
If a player is profoundly unhappy with the results of his or her Mercurial Magic roll and they want to change it, that's a great place for the "Let them quest for it!" spirit embodied in the rules to be applied. That might be obvious, but I feel like it's always worth repeating that if players want something, they should go get it.
This, of course, only applies to groups who are, in general, happy with the MM rules. If you don't like 'em as a group, drop 'em like a hot potato. But I would suggest giving them a fair shake in play for a little while, just to be sure you're not cutting out something you might find you enjoy.
If a player is profoundly unhappy with the results of his or her Mercurial Magic roll and they want to change it, that's a great place for the "Let them quest for it!" spirit embodied in the rules to be applied. That might be obvious, but I feel like it's always worth repeating that if players want something, they should go get it.
This, of course, only applies to groups who are, in general, happy with the MM rules. If you don't like 'em as a group, drop 'em like a hot potato. But I would suggest giving them a fair shake in play for a little while, just to be sure you're not cutting out something you might find you enjoy.
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Re: Mercurial Magic - Who uses it?
Excellent advice.The Venomous Pao wrote:I just remembered the other thing I was going to say...
If a player is profoundly unhappy with the results of his or her Mercurial Magic roll and they want to change it, that's a great place for the "Let them quest for it!" spirit embodied in the rules to be applied. That might be obvious, but I feel like it's always worth repeating that if players want something, they should go get it.
This, of course, only applies to groups who are, in general, happy with the MM rules. If you don't like 'em as a group, drop 'em like a hot potato. But I would suggest giving them a fair shake in play for a little while, just to be sure you're not cutting out something you might find you enjoy.
SoBH pbp:
Cathbad the Meek (herbalist Wizard 1): AC 9; 4 hp; S 7, A 7, St 10, P 17, I 13, L 8; Neutral; Club, herbs, 50' rope, 50 cp; -1 to melee attack rolls. Hideous scar.
Cathbad the Meek (herbalist Wizard 1): AC 9; 4 hp; S 7, A 7, St 10, P 17, I 13, L 8; Neutral; Club, herbs, 50' rope, 50 cp; -1 to melee attack rolls. Hideous scar.
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Re: Mercurial Magic - Who uses it?
Always. the Wizard in my group loves them, even if they're bad.
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