Varying the types of treasures, beyond just gold

[Nnesk]

I'm running Halls of the Minotaur (DCC 35a) for a group of fresh 1st level adventurers, and I've come upon a treasure problem. I'm not sure what kinds of rewards I should give.
The adventure has all sorts of magical items, mostly low-level (it's a 0 lvl module, originally), but DCC doesn't encourage handing out that many magic items. But if I'm taking away the healing potions and various +1 weapons, I should put something else instead - all of the treasure in the adventure is placed in cool places, a just reward for exploration. I want to keep that, and only change the type of treasure.

However, I feel like replacing the items with gold, or an equivalent of (like silver plates or whatever), isn't as exciting, and gets old fast. Any ideas about other types of rewards? I've been thinking about local-bound magical treasures, like I've seen in some of the DCC RPG modules - stuff that's magical, but only useful in this adventure. That means I have to invent something that requires items of this sort.

Giving out monetary treasure leads to another problem - what are the characters going to DO with lots of money? They can't buy magical items (to keep them mysterious, they're supposed to be found during adventures), and they'll have pretty good mundane equipment within an adventure or two. What should I encourage them to spend money on? I prefer not going the stronghold way, I want them to travel around.

[finarvyn]

Giving out monetary treasure leads to another problem - what are the characters going to DO with lots of money? They can't buy magical items (to keep them mysterious, they're supposed to be found during adventures), and they'll have pretty good mundane equipment within an adventure or two. What should I encourage them to spend money on? I prefer not going the stronghold way, I want them to travel around.

1) The true "Appendix N" solution would probably be to tell the players that they will spend most of their loot on wine, women, and song off-camera and in between adventures. Conan, Fafhrd/Mouser, and others seemed to end adventures by getting some sort of nifty treasure, but the next adventure usually starts with him dead broke again.

2) The stronghold idea doesn't need to eliminate the option of having them travel around. It can just represent a safe place where the characters hang out in between adventures and the next one can just start after some time has passed and when the characters have arrived at the new location.

3) A variant of the stronghold option is the ship option. Think Star Trek, where each new adventure begins when the Enterprise arrives at a new locale and our heroes beam down to the surface. You could encourage your characters to buy a ship, pay for crew and upkeep, and then start each adventure when you arrive at a new place. I ran a "flying ship" campaign where the ship could fly over land or sail on water, but the flight engine required expensive gemstones to function. This made for a cool campaign and the characters had to keep spending treasure to fly around to new places.

I'm sure others have cool ideas as well....

[Eyeball360]

Here's some ideas for you, hopefully you find some of them useful:

Consider making some of the magic items "sleeper" items. By that I mean that when the characters get it, they don't know how to use the magic yet, and will need to go on more adventures to figure out how, or to wake up some latent power (like a magic sword that is a reptile bane, but only after it's wielder slays a Lizard Man chieftan with it). Also, consider giving charges to items so that they will only have a few uses, like a magic cloak that will absorb 25 points of fire damage before the magic is used up and it becomes a normal cloak.

Another thought, is that not all the treasure may be for the party. Perhaps some of the monsters have some relics or other precious items that were stolen from the Church of Justicia, or a local thieves guild. Returning the items may buy the characters special favors and/or protection and so the real reward is gaining a powerful ally.

As for what to spend the money on, here are a few things:
1. Training. You may decide that characters need to spend a certain amount of money on training between adventures in order to assimilate the experience they are earning.
2. Guild dues. This could include church tithes, membership dues to military orders and costs for gaining access to magical libraries.
3. Have the characters get robbed. You can leave some clues and make a whole adventure out of recovering their money, effectively meaning that they have to go on two adventures for the same coin.
4. Blessings. Characters that are one or two alignments away from the alignment of the party's cleric could be forced to donate money to his church in order to justify the healing and other support the cleric provides. And the cleric may be able to sacrifice money and magic items to remove disapproval. You may even decide that he can sacrifice some things ahead of time, sort of putting the effects "in the bank" to draw upon if he pisses the Big Guy off while adventuring.
5. Arms and armor. You can always push the cost of steel weapons and armor up a bit and require the expense of repairs between adventures.
6. Perhaps an occasional healing potion may become available for purchase.

These are just a few thoughts for creating ways to get the players to spend money, I'm sure you can come up with more things along these same lines.

[Nnesk]

Excellent points, both of you. Thanks!

[Colin]

Appendix N Revelry Rules for the DCC RPG
Appendix N characters seldom start any adventure particularly better off than they were before, and frequently squander their hard-won money and treasure on temporary pleasures. When a DCC character finishes an adventure and returns to whatever passes for civilization for rest and recuperation, follow this process to determine the results of their carousing:

1) Make a Luck check to see how much they squandered. If the roll succeeds they spent 1d5 x 10% of the wealth and treasure they acquired from the adventure. If the roll fails, they spent (1d5 x10%) + 50% of their gains instead.

2) Roll on the following percentile table to see what happened. Some results are beneficial, many can serve as the springboard for further adventures, and others are simply fun. In any regard, the Judge determines the specifics of any items and circumstances. In some cases, the Judge may apply the same result to all characters in the group in order to better facilitate further adventures.

Drunken Debauchery
Roll Result
01-02 Behold My Grace! You boasted of your adroitness! Make an Agility check vs. DC 15 to see if you showed true prowess or bungled it! Roll 1d6: 1-2 = Balancing on a Ledge/Beam/Rope, 3 = Bull-Leaping, 4 = Dancing, 5 = Five-Finger Fillet, 6 = Juggling Random Items.
03-04 Behold My Might! You boasted of your strength! Make a Strength check vs. DC 15 to see if you actually managed something impressive! Roll 1d6: 1-3 = Arm Wrestling, 4-5= Wrestling Match, 6 = Lifting Heavy Objects.
05 Big Business! You invested your money in a merchant’s caravan/ship venture! Judge secretly rolls 1d6: 1-2 = It’s a con, 3-4 = It’s legitimate, and in 2d6 months you’ll have doubled your investment (if you’re still alive and around!), 5-6 = It’s legitimate, but the caravan/ship didn’t survive.
06-08 Brotherly Love! You woke up next to one of the other players’ characters (Judge determines randomly)!
09-11 Brrr… Chilly! Someone stole your clothes when you were intoxicated!
12-14 Dangerous Liaison! You bedded the son/daughter/husband/wife/temple virgin of someone who can make your life in this area very difficult! Roll 1d6: 1 = Local Crime Lord, 2 = Local Militia Commander, 3 = Local Sorcerer, 4 = Local Temple Leader, 5-6 = Most Important Local Leader/Noble!
15-22 Drunken Brawl! You started a drunken brawl! You must spend a further 1d2 x 10% of your money on damages and fines to avoid incarceration, or flee and be declared outlaw!
23 Fire! You accidentally started a fire in the inn/den of ill repute you were carousing in! You must spend a further 1d4 x 10% of your money on damages and fines to avoid incarceration, or flee and be declared outlaw!
24-31 Gambling! You gambled away your money on a game! Roll 1d6: 1 = Dice Game, 2= Card Game, 3 = Cock Fight, 4 = Dog Fight, 5 = Arm/Wrestling Match, 6 = Pit Fight
32-34 Go Directly To Jail! You woke up in jail charged with a crime! Roll 1d6: 1-2 = Drunken Disorderly, 3 = Lewd Conduct, 4 = Vandalism, 5 = Theft, 6 = Murder. You decide if your character did it or not. An escape may be needed…
35-37 Have At You! You incurred someone's anger or were angered yourself, and have agreed to a duel, physical or sorcerous! Judge secretly rolls 1d6: 1-2 - They're lower level, 3-4 = They're the same level, 5-6 = They're higher level. Judge also secretly rolls 1d4 to see how much their level deviates from yours.
38-40 How’d I Get Here? You woke up in a strange place with no idea how you'd got there! Roll 1d6: 1 = Aboard a ship (maybe heading out to sea!), 2 = In a tree, 3 = In the back of a wagon (maybe travelling somewhere!), 4 = In the nearest stable/animal pen, 5 = In the nearest temple, 6 = In the sewer
41-48 How Embarrassing! You made a complete idiot of yourself in public! Locals snigger behind your back and consider you a complete imbecile. Roll 1d6: 1 = You emptied your bladder... unexpectedly, 2 = You exposed yourself... repeatedly, 3 = You fell flat on your face unconscious while attempting to seem intimidating/skilful/powerful, 4 = You performed the worst drunken song and dance… ever, 5 = You soiled yourself... messily, 6 = You were caught writing graffiti on a local building and forced to clean it off
49-51 I Here Swear! You made a foolish pledge, loudly and in public to do something potentially dangerous. Roll 1d6: 1-2 = Clear Nearest Monster Den/Ruin, 3-4 = Bring Down Local Bandits/Thieves/Thugs, 5-6 = Steal Valuable From Important Local (Roll as in Dangerous Liaison! to determine who).
52 Just Married! You woke up to find someone claiming to be your new wife/husband! Roll 1d6: 1-2 = Attractive, 3-4 = Average, 5 = Ugly, 6 = Pass the bucket! Judge also secretly rolls 1d6: 1-3 = It’s a con attempt, 4-6 = It’s true.
53 Love Never Dies! You woke up next to a corpse!
54 Mooooo! You woke up next to an animal! Roll 1d6: 1= Chicken, 2 = Cow, 3 = Goat, 4 = Horse, 5 = Pig, 6 = Sheep.
55-62 My Friends! You spent your money on drink, companionship, and trinkets for your new “friends”!
63 My Land! You gambled/spent your money and acquired the deeds to something! Roll 1d6: 1-2 = Disreputable Inn, 3 = Nearest Ruin, 4 = Plot of Wildland, 5-6 = Run-Down Farm. Judge secretly rolls 1d6: 1-3 = It’s a fake, 4-6 = It’s legitimate.
64-66 My Precious! When you were passed out or otherwise engaged, someone stole your single most valuable-looking item, as determined by the Judge! Track ‘em down and make ‘em pay!
67-69 Ooh Shiny! You spent your money on a truly gaudy but otherwise unremarkable item. Roll 1d6: 1 = Armour, 2 = Garment, 3-4 = Jewellery Piece, 5 = Shield, 6 = Weapon. Actual item should be determined by Judge based on amount spent, cost of such items, and the character’s preferences.
70-77 Robbed! You didn’t spend your money/treasure! Someone stole it!
78-80 Tattoo You! You spent your money on a fantastic tattoo! Roll 1d6: 1-2 = It actually is awesome, 3-4 = It’s fairly good, 5 = It has an obvious error, 6 = It has an embarrassing error.
81 Treasure Map! You spent/gambled your money and obtained a dubious map to some undefined ruin/treasure! Judge secretly rolls 1d6: 1-3 = It’s a con, 4-6 = It’s accurate.
82-89 Unexpected Companion! You woke up next to a member of your preferred gender. Determine attractiveness as Just Married entry.
90 Where'd This Come From? You awoke with an object in your possession and no idea how you obtained it! Roll 1d6: 1 = Dagger, 2 = Document, 3 = Gemstone, 4 = Map, 5 = Necklace, 6 = Ring. Judge secretly rolls 1d6: 1-2 = You purchased it, 3 = It was gifted to you, 4-5 = You stole it, 6 = It was planted on you!
91-93 Yer Mother! You seriously insulted someone who can make your life in this area very difficult. Roll to determine who as in Dangerous Liaison! entry.
94-95 You’re So Generous! You donated your money to a worthy institution. Roll 1d6: 1-2 = Local Poor, 3-4 = Local Temple, 5-6 = Orphanage/Urchins
96-00 Roll Twice! Roll twice and apply both results, you madman!

[Nnesk]

This glorious table should be in the book. Where is it from?

[Skyscraper]

Great stuff there Colin. I might use this

[Colin]

This glorious table should be in the book. Where is it from?

My brain. It was originally inspired by the work of Jeff Rients and Gav Norman, but it's my own baby.

Colin

[Colin]

Great stuff there Colin. I might use this

De nada. It's lined up for a future issue of Crawl (along with other pieces) but I figured folks might find it useful in this thread.

cheers!
Colin

[GnomeBoy]

This glorious table should be in the book. Where is it from?

My brain.

That is a book I've been meaning to read...

[Colin]

This glorious table should be in the book. Where is it from?

My brain.

That is a book I've been meaning to read...

Heh. Even I'm afraid to look in my brain at times.

Colin

[cthulhudarren]

Colin, these rules are not very player friendly but are fun!

These would be good to use once in a while, otherwise you want the characters to determine their own action.

[Gizrond]

I'm stealing those too.

I'm afraid that some in my group would feel a little railroaded if I forced it on everyone, but those that choose to engage in drunken revelry between adventures are fair game.

I'm guessing that after seeing the chart, most of them will want to use it. They love stuff like that.

I'm working on a lifestyles chart for my game. I'll post it here when I finish.

[ragboy]

Very cool.

I'm working on a lifestyles chart for my game. I'll post it here when I finish.

Hey Gizrond -- I did a lifestyles/upkeep/downtime chart. This was for Castles & Crusades, and was based on the Darklands video game (money is in 13th century German currency). It's up here: http://mysticbull.pbworks.com/w/page/32 ... rofessions

Might be useful. The idea was that the characters could make a wage based on their secondary skill/profession when they were in town. With some hook opportunities. We played a pretty heavy "time tracking" game at the time, so it actually worked pretty well. YMMV.

[Nnesk]

I'm working on a lifestyles chart for my game. I'll post it here when I finish.

Looking forward to it.

Ragboy, I like the lifestyle idea. Having to pay a constant upkeep to stay at a certain level of lifestyle is both logical and rewarding (with the bonuses you suggests).

[ragboy]

I'm working on a lifestyles chart for my game. I'll post it here when I finish.

Looking forward to it.

Ragboy, I like the lifestyle idea. Having to pay a constant upkeep to stay at a certain level of lifestyle is both logical and rewarding (with the bonuses you suggests).

Thanks!

It hasn't really fit with the way we play DCC. We played C&C very old school, as far as time tracking went -- and at the time, we had a very regular game. We're pretty fast and loose in DCC and our games are rather irregular. So we don't spend a lot of time worrying about "downtime." Everyone wants to get to the screaming, crying and dying part of the game... I think Colin's carousing chart would work better for us now... but depends on how you play.

[Gizrond]

Here is what I have so far. Please keep in mind that I haven't proofed or play-tested this yet. I noticed it does share some similarities with Ragboy's.

DCC LIFESTYLES

ABJECT POVERTY – You live in filth and squalor with the rats and the vermin, eating scraps, garbage, and carrion left behind by your betters. The good news is that this lifestyle doesn’t cost you a single copper. The bad news is that it is probably going to kill you.
Hit point damage only heals 1 point every other day in this lifestyle. No attribute damage heals. Luck is replenished normally however. In addition, every week a character spends in Abject Poverty causes them to suffer 1d4 points of Stamina damage. This damage is offset 1 point for every cp spent on food and drink for the week. Also, the character must make a DC10 Fort save every week or contract some form of sickness or disease (Judge’s discretion).
Any Personality checks made by the character while in his home city are shifted down one die while living this lifestyle.
It’s not all bad though. Once per week, if the character makes a successful Luck check, he gains 1d4 cp in alms.
Room & Board: 0 Food and Drink: 0*

LOW – You sleep where you can, but have managed to find someplace out of the cold. You spend most nights at flophouses for the poor, and abandoned crypt, the loft of the town stable, or some other such place. Food is mostly cast offs and scraps, with the occasional meal, but you aren’t starving.
Hit point damage heals normally, but attribute damage only heals ½ point a day. The character needs to make a Fort save to avoid sickness or disease like in Abject Poverty, but only fails on a roll of 1.
Any Personality checks made by the character while in his home city are at -3 while living this lifestyle.
Room & Board: 6cp Food and Drink: 7cp

AVERAGE – You actually have a place that you call you own on a regular basis. It’s relatively safe and dry too! Average Lifestyle can be a cottage shared with a large family, sparse quarters in the local monastery, a side at Tavern, servant’s quarters in a local manor, etc.
Hit points and attributes heal as normal.
Any Personality checks made by the character while in his home city are normal while living this lifestyle.
Room & Board: 1sp Food and Drink: 5sp

HIGH – Now you’re living the good life. Your own cottage, one of the finer rooms in the inn, priest’s chambers at the church, a sprawling apartment above a shop, or even a forgotten storage room in the catacombs filled with luxurious furniture and elegant rugs. Whatever you choose, you live well and it shows. Your food is always fresh and top quality and you even know what’s good on a wine list.
Hit point and attribute damage heals 50% faster than normal.
Any Personality checks made by the character while in his home city are at +1 while living this lifestyle.
Unfortunately, this is also the level where you become a target for thieves. Unless connected with local Guilds, the character has a 5% chance each week of becoming a target for burglary or robbery. The Judge can adjust this chance based on how flashy the character is with his treasure.
Room & Board: 2gp Food and Drink: 1gp

LAP OF LUXURY – You live among the elite of your town or city. It is common place for you to dine with royalty and your name is known in high society circles. You live in a manor, keep, the finest room in the finest inn, the Bishop’s quarters, or something on par with those and have a staff to maintain the place. Your food and drink is the best the city has to offer and you often dine on delicacies about which the common folk can only dream.
Hit point and attribute damage heals at twice normal.
Any Personality checks made by the character while in his home city are at +4 while living this lifestyle. At this Lifestyle, the character is accompanied by 2d4 men-at-arms when he travels the city. They are well paid and suffer no morale penalties. The local Thieves Guilds are paid off and the character only becomes a victim of burglary on a roll of 01-02 on a d100.
Also at this level, the character starts to be approached with business opportunities – money makes money! There is a 15% chance per week that the character is asked to invest 1d4x100 gp in some business venture. If the character agrees, roll a Luck check. On a 1 the character was scammed, on a failed roll the money is simply lost, on a success the character gains a 10% return on his investment for every point over the minimum he succeeds by.
Room & Board: 15gp Food and Drink: 7gp

IT’S GOOD TO BE THE KING – You live among the best and finest of the social classes. No social event is barred to you and you are known to be friends with rulers, princes and merchant lords. You live in one of the finest homes in the city and successful people are jealous of what you have. You have a personal staff that is the best in their crafts. Your house chef is renowned and prepares you the finest meals. You have access to drink that would make collectors drool.
Hit point and attribute damage heals at twice normal. In addition, the character has access to a local priest for healing. Consider the priest to be within a few levels of the character.
Any Personality checks made by the character while in his home city are shifted up one die while living this lifestyle. At this Lifestyle, the character is accompanied by 2d6 men-at-arms and one elite bodyguard when he travels the city. The men-at-arms are extremely well paid and get +2 to morale checks. The bodyguard is fanatically loyal and never checks morale unless victim of a spell. The local Thieves Guilds are well paid and only the craziest and most foolhardy of thieves would even think of risking their wrath by robbing the character.
This is also the Lifestyle level that will often get called upon to “lend” money to local rulers to finance wars, expeditions, and diplomatic endeavors. Judges can arbitrate these as needed.
Room & Board: 50gp Food and Drink: 25gp

Note that the bonuses and penalties of the various Lifestyles only apply when the character is living in the city. No one cares where you normally live when you are out adventuring.

If at any point in the course of the game, the character wishes to buy a home, a good rule of thumb is to use the weekly room & Board cost X1,000 as the base price of the home. Once purchased, the character no longer needs to pay the Room & Board cost each week, but must still maintain the Food & Drink upkeep or drop to the next lowest Lifestyle level. If the character starts paying the proper upkeep again, it takes 1d6 weeks before the benefits of the Lifestyle kick in again. In a similar vein, if the characters “acquire” a dwelling through the course of their adventures, they need to pay Room & Board cost X250 to refurbish the place to a particular Lifestyle. They must then pay the Food & Drink costs for 1d6 weeks for the Lifestyle level to take effect.

[cthulhudarren]

Gizrond, great job, these are weekly upkeep prices, yes?

[Gizrond]

Yes, they are weekly.

Also based off the assumption that someone working what would be equivalent to a minimum-wage job in our world is pulling in about 2cp a day.

[smathis]

TA/TG has a series of downtime tables similar to what's been shown here. Very much inspired by Jeff Rients' tables. But also with an eye towards giving the player and judge fodder for upcoming sessions.

I believe the "Between Adventures" tables will be appearing in the Judge's Book (Vol. 2). There's a monetary component to them as well. But they only happen between adventures. Game time in TA/TG is measured by what happens during adventures and what happens between adventures. A lot can happen between adventures.

[cthulhudarren]

I believe the "Between Adventures" tables will be appearing in the Judge's Book (Vol. 2).

What is the "Judge's Book"? If it's not we need some for DCC RPG.

[Colin]

I can't believe some folks are worried that results might seem unfair/railroading; I thought we were playing Dungeon Crawl Classics, not Fairy Snookums: The Huggy-Kissy RPG?

More seriously, if a Player decided their character was going to remain sober and not particularly Appendix N in style (boorrriinngg!) after an adventure, I wouldn't force them to roll either, but luckily most folks I know think it's fun and get the sort of thing it's supposed to evoke. Plus, it's a great way to lead to further adventures; most of the results can provide all manner of adventure seeds and complications.

Colin

[Colin]

I believe the "Between Adventures" tables will be appearing in the Judge's Book (Vol. 2).

What is the "Judge's Book"? If it's not we need some for DCC RPG.

smathis is plugging TA/TG (Transylvanian Adventures/Transylvanian Grimoire) and the Judge's book is a volume in that.

Colin

[Ogrepuppy]

My two favorites from Colin's chart:

54 Mooooo! You woke up next to an animal! Roll 1d6: 1= Chicken, 2 = Cow, 3 = Goat, 4 = Horse, 5 = Pig, 6 = Sheep.

96-00 Roll Twice! Roll twice and apply both results, you madman!

Totally metal, and 100% DCC-RPG worthy!

:: high-fives Colin adroitly ::

[jeff]

54 Mooooo! You woke up next to an animal! Roll 1d6: 1= Chicken, 2 = Cow, 3 = Goat, 4 = Horse, 5 = Pig, 6 = Sheep.

Ummm, Colin? You do realize that the "D" in DCC doesn't stand for "Donkey Show" right?