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 Post subject: Recommend some ideas of magic item saving throws
PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2012 9:25 am 
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i'm working on this thing that can destroy magic items. First it has to touch it. If it hits, the item gets a saving throw or is permanently destroyed. The DC will be the roll to touch it. What is the easiest and logical way to ad-hoc a bonus to a magic item? Or should i approach it from the other direction, where the roll "to hit" is set against the DC to originally create the magic item? If higher, it is automatically destroyed. But again, i don't know a good way to adjudicate the DC necessary. Potions, scrolls, etc should be very low probably. Weapons and armor higher. Artifacts can't be destroyed.


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 Post subject: Re: Recommend some ideas of magic item saving throws
PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2012 1:57 pm 
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To simplify things, what if such an item were just 'rated' as to what it could destroy -- then touching it to the target item destroys the target item? If a person is holding the target item, then you have to make an attack roll in order to hit the item.

I realize this doesn't help you with your DC issue, but it seems easier to play. This way, you don't have to define a defense for every other item in your campaign...

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Gnome Boy (a.k.a. "Jon") • DCC play-tester @ DDC 35, Feb 2011. • Beta DL 2111, 7:00 AM PT, 8 June 11.
Playing RPGs since 1977 • Quasi-occasional member of the Legion of 8th-Level Fighters - Holds the power to play gnomes at will!

Here Be DCC Monsters...

General Yoros, Warrior, Str 13, Agl 8 (10), Stm 17, Per 13, Int 11, Lck 8; Law, HP 39, AC 17, R+2, F+4, W+2, band/shld, warhammer, longsword, longbow, pitchfork

Han Dee, (Weaver) Neutral Thief, Str 10, Agi 13, Stm 11, Per 11, Int 15, Lck 14, AC 13 (Leather), HP 25, Luck Die d6, Backstab 3, Sneak Silently 10, Hide In Shadows 9, Pick Pocket 10, Climb Sheer 10, Pick Lock 9, Find Trap 9, Disable Trap 9, Forge Doc 10, Disguise 3, Read Lang 5, Handle Poison 3, Cast Scroll d14+2, birth augur (Born under the loom) +1 to all skill checks (including thief skills), Banepicks (auto pick lock/disable trap, but lose 1d3 random ability loss, if a 3 then 1 pt is perm)


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 Post subject: Re: Recommend some ideas of magic item saving throws
PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2012 4:14 pm 
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but rate against what? Magic items don't have levels. Characters barely have levels in this game compared to D&D. By 5th they are legend worthy, by 10th they are probably demigods.


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 Post subject: Re: Recommend some ideas of magic item saving throws
PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2012 4:46 pm 
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item #1: destroys potions
item #2: destroys potions, scrolls with spells no higher than 4th, and any other such item GM feels is comparable
item #3: destroys magical arms and armor
etc.

_________________
Gnome Boy (a.k.a. "Jon") • DCC play-tester @ DDC 35, Feb 2011. • Beta DL 2111, 7:00 AM PT, 8 June 11.
Playing RPGs since 1977 • Quasi-occasional member of the Legion of 8th-Level Fighters - Holds the power to play gnomes at will!

Here Be DCC Monsters...

General Yoros, Warrior, Str 13, Agl 8 (10), Stm 17, Per 13, Int 11, Lck 8; Law, HP 39, AC 17, R+2, F+4, W+2, band/shld, warhammer, longsword, longbow, pitchfork

Han Dee, (Weaver) Neutral Thief, Str 10, Agi 13, Stm 11, Per 11, Int 15, Lck 14, AC 13 (Leather), HP 25, Luck Die d6, Backstab 3, Sneak Silently 10, Hide In Shadows 9, Pick Pocket 10, Climb Sheer 10, Pick Lock 9, Find Trap 9, Disable Trap 9, Forge Doc 10, Disguise 3, Read Lang 5, Handle Poison 3, Cast Scroll d14+2, birth augur (Born under the loom) +1 to all skill checks (including thief skills), Banepicks (auto pick lock/disable trap, but lose 1d3 random ability loss, if a 3 then 1 pt is perm)


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 Post subject: Re: Recommend some ideas of magic item saving throws
PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2012 3:42 am 
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You could just make it do a dispel magic check. Rather than it be auto, and the item have to save.

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Str 10 Agi 15 (+1) Sta 11 Per 11 Int 17 (+2) Luc 10 (Unholy House). Align: C. AC: 14. HP: 13. Melee +1, Ranged +2. Crit: d8, I. Save: Ref +5, Fort +3, Will +4.
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 Post subject: Re: Recommend some ideas of magic item saving throws
PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2012 6:04 am 
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Far-Sighted Wanderer

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well, yes, this is essentially like a dispel magic check with a 32-33 result for permanent destruction. In the spell, your caster score has to overcome the DC required to construct the item (which still has tons of variables). But in my case, this can be done round after round, so i don't want it too easy to do. Magic is rare and hard to find so i want PCs scared of losing their stuff. I'm thinking that the roll to attack sets the DC, just touching the item. Then maybe simple items like low level scrolls get a small saving throw, like +1 to +3. Magic swords and armor and such will have much better chances.


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 Post subject: Re: Recommend some ideas of magic item saving throws
PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2012 7:36 am 
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Of course, the "roll to attack" setting the DC will mean Warriors are best at using it. If that fits your idea, that's cool. Or just using the die result itself to generate the DC (die result + X) will mitigate that.

I was thinking the rarity of the destructo-items would be high, higher than other magic items.

And just in case: 3e had Rods of Negation, which destroyed magic items by touching them. The Rod itself was then destroyed, too -- but use of the Rod was simple, game-mechanically speaking. And yes, they made players fear for their items. :twisted:

_________________
Gnome Boy (a.k.a. "Jon") • DCC play-tester @ DDC 35, Feb 2011. • Beta DL 2111, 7:00 AM PT, 8 June 11.
Playing RPGs since 1977 • Quasi-occasional member of the Legion of 8th-Level Fighters - Holds the power to play gnomes at will!

Here Be DCC Monsters...

General Yoros, Warrior, Str 13, Agl 8 (10), Stm 17, Per 13, Int 11, Lck 8; Law, HP 39, AC 17, R+2, F+4, W+2, band/shld, warhammer, longsword, longbow, pitchfork

Han Dee, (Weaver) Neutral Thief, Str 10, Agi 13, Stm 11, Per 11, Int 15, Lck 14, AC 13 (Leather), HP 25, Luck Die d6, Backstab 3, Sneak Silently 10, Hide In Shadows 9, Pick Pocket 10, Climb Sheer 10, Pick Lock 9, Find Trap 9, Disable Trap 9, Forge Doc 10, Disguise 3, Read Lang 5, Handle Poison 3, Cast Scroll d14+2, birth augur (Born under the loom) +1 to all skill checks (including thief skills), Banepicks (auto pick lock/disable trap, but lose 1d3 random ability loss, if a 3 then 1 pt is perm)


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 Post subject: Re: Recommend some ideas of magic item saving throws
PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2012 7:43 am 
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Far-Sighted Wanderer

Joined: Mon Jun 18, 2012 11:51 am
Posts: 32
well, if it helps, this is actually a very, very rare monster power that PCs will never get their hands on, it's purely something to terrify them. :) So the DC is "monster attack" to touch. So i guess the easiest way to mitigate this is that "simple items" have a low saving throw and more powerful items have a much better save. Pure judge discretion?


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 Post subject: Re: Recommend some ideas of magic item saving throws
PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2012 8:02 am 
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Far-Sighted Wanderer

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ok, how about this, a PC gets 2 chances to save his magic thingee if he's holding or using it.


An unattended magic item is automatically touched and must make a saving throw against DC 25 or become permanently mundane. If the item is being held or worn a PC can make a Reflex save with the DC as the attack roll. Otherwise the item must make a saving throw against the same DC or be destroyed (saving throws are made at +1 to +20 per item’s relative power and judge’s discretion). Particularly powerful items or effects are immune.



I don't think i want to codify this too much, it's easier just to relegate it to the judge's decision, as this will probably never come up again in a game.


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 Post subject: Re: Recommend some ideas of magic item saving throws
PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2012 9:23 am 
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Sounds good. :)

One way to get at that +1 to +20 could be "double the earliest level at which you'd imagine characters obtaining the item, more or less" for ease of estimation.

_________________
Gnome Boy (a.k.a. "Jon") • DCC play-tester @ DDC 35, Feb 2011. • Beta DL 2111, 7:00 AM PT, 8 June 11.
Playing RPGs since 1977 • Quasi-occasional member of the Legion of 8th-Level Fighters - Holds the power to play gnomes at will!

Here Be DCC Monsters...

General Yoros, Warrior, Str 13, Agl 8 (10), Stm 17, Per 13, Int 11, Lck 8; Law, HP 39, AC 17, R+2, F+4, W+2, band/shld, warhammer, longsword, longbow, pitchfork

Han Dee, (Weaver) Neutral Thief, Str 10, Agi 13, Stm 11, Per 11, Int 15, Lck 14, AC 13 (Leather), HP 25, Luck Die d6, Backstab 3, Sneak Silently 10, Hide In Shadows 9, Pick Pocket 10, Climb Sheer 10, Pick Lock 9, Find Trap 9, Disable Trap 9, Forge Doc 10, Disguise 3, Read Lang 5, Handle Poison 3, Cast Scroll d14+2, birth augur (Born under the loom) +1 to all skill checks (including thief skills), Banepicks (auto pick lock/disable trap, but lose 1d3 random ability loss, if a 3 then 1 pt is perm)


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 Post subject: Re: Recommend some ideas of magic item saving throws
PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2012 9:27 am 
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GnomeBoy wrote:
Sounds good. :)

One way to get at that +1 to +20 could be "double the earliest level at which you'd imagine characters obtaining the item, more or less" for ease of estimation.


good idea!


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