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 Post subject: More "pulp" like armor
PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2012 6:38 pm 
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In my DCC world there is no Platemail, I struck it from the rulebook. The best you can get is a Breastplate, for which I use the Half-Plate stats.

Now in the Pulpy appendix N world, there are many instances of the Hero using nothing more than a shield or even a helm and shield. I'm not a real numbery rulesy kinda guy, and I want a way to make having a shield be a bit more worth it than a measly +1AC bonus.

So I was thinking that maybe if you are wearing armor then shields work as written. However if you choose to forego armor and just use a shield then the AC bonus should be more?!?!? But how much more ? And should you have maybe a D3 fumble die if using just a shield? or none at all.

All in all, I would like for a player who wants to run around in fur underwear with a shield not have to feel like a chump as he goes up in level. What is a simple quick way to handle this?

any thoughts, ideas, or house rules already in use for this kind of thing?

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 Post subject: Re: More "pulp" like armor
PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2012 5:03 am 
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Someone (I forget who) posted that they allow non-armored warriors to use their agility as their AC, so an 18 Agi warrior would have AC 18, possibly 19 (or more) if they were using a shield. I'm not sure if the Agi bonus would factor into that or not (I probably wouldn't).

I actually really like the idea of using base AC as Agi... except it kinda sucks for less than 10 Agi, especially if you factor in the negative modifiers (another reason I wouldn't).

But you could get around that by doing something different with armor: either damage reduction, or damage absorption ("soak"). Easiest would be something like the following:

Padded -1
Leather -2
Studded Leather -3
Hide -4
Scale -5
Chain -6
Banded -7
Half Plate -8
Full Plate -9
Shield -1

from each hit. That would make armored characters pretty hard to kill though with regular ol' weapons or small monsters. So perhaps a better way to approach it would be to do something like this:

Padded -1d2
Leather -1d3
Studded Leather -1d4
Hide -2d2
Scale -1d5
Chain -1d6
Banded -2d3
Half Plate -1d8
Full Plate -2d4
Shield -1d3

from each hit. You still get some good usefulness out of armor, but it's a bit more variable and now it is possible (though difficult; unless backstabbing / burning luck) to kill someone wearing full plate and a shield with a dagger.

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RoM pbp:
Hamun Ry (Wiz 4)
Str 10 Agi 15 (+1) Sta 11 Per 11 Int 17 (+2) Luc 10 (Unholy House). Align: C. AC: 14. HP: 13. Melee +1, Ranged +2. Crit: d8, I. Save: Ref +5, Fort +3, Will +4.
Spells: 1: Choking Cloud, Comprehend Languages, Detect Magic (odd crystal growths), Magic Missile (mirror images), Runic Alphabet (Mortal) (ravenously hungry), Ventriloquism (rain of frogs)
2: Detect Invisible, Levitate (extremely difficult, d14), Mirror Image (20% chance to raise/lower luck by 1d3 points).
Equip: Ring of the Sand Djinn: +2 AC/saves, Invisibility for 1min/spellburn point, or unmake for great, unknown effect. Padded Armor, Longsword, Longbow, quiver w/20 steel-tipped arrows, 10 silver-tipped arrows, backpack, spellbook, quill and ink, sturdy parchment (10 sheets), 5 days rations, high leather boots, belt w/ belt pouch, gray robe, dark gray hooded cloak. Also carries 3 small mechanical toys: wind-up mouse, wooden puzzle cube, small jewelry box that plays a little tune.


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 Post subject: Re: More "pulp" like armor
PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2012 6:21 am 
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Joined: Thu Jul 05, 2012 5:07 pm
Posts: 157
Damage absorption for the shield would be a good idea. Also the Shield and Helmet rules in CRAWL! may be a good base line to expand into a limited armor system.


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 Post subject: Re: More "pulp" like armor
PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 1:12 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jul 30, 2012 2:40 pm
Posts: 175
Location: West Palm Beach, Fl
Thanks for the ideas. I'm staying away from the reduction/soak thing, as I don't really want to "change" the armor charts or anything.

Floating the Agility as AC idea in my head though. I agree no Agi bonus is added to AC if you use it that way. Also thinking that if you choose to go armorless and only use a shield, then shields have a new subset of stats:

Buckler +1AC
Wooden Shield +3AC
Metal shield +4AC

and you can do the "shields will be shattered" thing as well.....

still thinking....

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Ah well, who wants to live forever? DIE!
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 Post subject: Re: More "pulp" like armor
PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 1:50 pm 
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An easy houserule: A Warrior who foregoes a Mighty Deed may add his Deed Die roll to his AC (until the next roll), so long as he is wearing Light Armour or less.

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SoBH pbp:

Cathbad the Meek (herbalist Wizard 1): AC 9; 4 hp; S 7, A 7, St 10, P 17, I 13, L 8; Neutral; Club, herbs, 50' rope, 50 cp; -1 to melee attack rolls. Hideous scar.


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 Post subject: Re: More "pulp" like armor
PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 7:12 pm 
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Posts: 157
Deed die for armor option... I like it.


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 Post subject: Re: More "pulp" like armor
PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 7:57 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jun 25, 2012 8:01 am
Posts: 1200
Location: Atlanta, GA
There's a deed that gives you and possibly allies +AC. But you have to succeed on a deed roll...

_________________

RoM pbp:
Hamun Ry (Wiz 4)
Str 10 Agi 15 (+1) Sta 11 Per 11 Int 17 (+2) Luc 10 (Unholy House). Align: C. AC: 14. HP: 13. Melee +1, Ranged +2. Crit: d8, I. Save: Ref +5, Fort +3, Will +4.
Spells: 1: Choking Cloud, Comprehend Languages, Detect Magic (odd crystal growths), Magic Missile (mirror images), Runic Alphabet (Mortal) (ravenously hungry), Ventriloquism (rain of frogs)
2: Detect Invisible, Levitate (extremely difficult, d14), Mirror Image (20% chance to raise/lower luck by 1d3 points).
Equip: Ring of the Sand Djinn: +2 AC/saves, Invisibility for 1min/spellburn point, or unmake for great, unknown effect. Padded Armor, Longsword, Longbow, quiver w/20 steel-tipped arrows, 10 silver-tipped arrows, backpack, spellbook, quill and ink, sturdy parchment (10 sheets), 5 days rations, high leather boots, belt w/ belt pouch, gray robe, dark gray hooded cloak. Also carries 3 small mechanical toys: wind-up mouse, wooden puzzle cube, small jewelry box that plays a little tune.


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 Post subject: Re: More "pulp" like armor
PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 8:16 pm 
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Joined: Fri Mar 16, 2012 11:41 am
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beermotor wrote:
There's a deed that gives you and possibly allies +AC. But you have to succeed on a deed roll...


Sure.

But, if your goal is to have lightly armoured Warriors, and you don't think that the Fumble tables offer enough balance for a better AC, then using the Deed Die in this way makes an okay houserule. It is easy, and it takes away opportunity in exchange for a bonus. Moreover, when that Warrior wants to perform a Deed, he must make himself more vulnerable to do so.

Nor should the houserule be allowed to extend protection to allies; that should require an actual Deed.

(Mind you, I'm happy with the system as written on this, thus far, but if I wanted to give Warriors a bonus to AC, I would want to take something away to achieve it. Ye Olde Faustian Bargain. So, you get to choose between a Deed or better AC. If you choose the Deed, you might get something better than good AC, but the Deed might fail. A Deed Die roll that would have failed as a Deed is only a +1 or +2 boost to AC until high levels, and so isn't that big a deal.)

_________________
SoBH pbp:

Cathbad the Meek (herbalist Wizard 1): AC 9; 4 hp; S 7, A 7, St 10, P 17, I 13, L 8; Neutral; Club, herbs, 50' rope, 50 cp; -1 to melee attack rolls. Hideous scar.


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 Post subject: Re: More "pulp" like armor
PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 7:38 am 
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Joined: Mon Jun 25, 2012 8:01 am
Posts: 1200
Location: Atlanta, GA
Yeah... I don't dislike your solution. I'm going to play through an entire campaign before I make any changes to the AC system. But if I were to change it RIGHT NOW, I'd probably go with the Agi-as-AC idea and make armor soak, perhaps apply the armor check penalty in some form, perhaps nerfed slightly (which is based on weight/encumbrance, after all), to the Agi-as-AC model... that way a 16 Agi Warrior in Plate mail isn't basically indestructible.

_________________

RoM pbp:
Hamun Ry (Wiz 4)
Str 10 Agi 15 (+1) Sta 11 Per 11 Int 17 (+2) Luc 10 (Unholy House). Align: C. AC: 14. HP: 13. Melee +1, Ranged +2. Crit: d8, I. Save: Ref +5, Fort +3, Will +4.
Spells: 1: Choking Cloud, Comprehend Languages, Detect Magic (odd crystal growths), Magic Missile (mirror images), Runic Alphabet (Mortal) (ravenously hungry), Ventriloquism (rain of frogs)
2: Detect Invisible, Levitate (extremely difficult, d14), Mirror Image (20% chance to raise/lower luck by 1d3 points).
Equip: Ring of the Sand Djinn: +2 AC/saves, Invisibility for 1min/spellburn point, or unmake for great, unknown effect. Padded Armor, Longsword, Longbow, quiver w/20 steel-tipped arrows, 10 silver-tipped arrows, backpack, spellbook, quill and ink, sturdy parchment (10 sheets), 5 days rations, high leather boots, belt w/ belt pouch, gray robe, dark gray hooded cloak. Also carries 3 small mechanical toys: wind-up mouse, wooden puzzle cube, small jewelry box that plays a little tune.


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 Post subject: Re: More "pulp" like armor
PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 2:23 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jun 26, 2009 5:42 am
Posts: 2236
Location: Chicago suburbs
beermotor wrote:
Someone (I forget who) posted that they allow non-armored warriors to use their agility as their AC...
In my current game I'm trying a little twist to this.

I wanted a low-armor swashbuckler-style world but also wanted to decrease the lethality, so I allowed characters in armor to add their reflex bonus and characters without armor to add the reflex bonus twice. This has really encouraged my players to avoid armor use. :P

I haven't played enough sessions to decide if this "breaks" the balance or not. So far it doesn't seem to bad...

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Marv / Finarvyn
DCC Minister of Propaganda; Deputized 6/8/11
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DCC RPG playtester 2011, C&C playtester 2003,T&T since 2003,
ADRP Since 1993, OD&D player since 1975

"The worthy GM never purposely kills players' PCs, He presents opportunities for the rash and unthinking players to do that all on their own."
-- Gary Gygax
"Don't ask me what you need to hit. Just roll the die and I will let you know!"
-- Dave Arneson


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 Post subject: Re: More "pulp" like armor
PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 11:16 pm 
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Joined: Wed Dec 12, 2012 10:59 pm
Posts: 1
themightyeroc wrote:
In my DCC world there is no Platemail, I struck it from the rulebook. The best you can get is a Breastplate, for which I use the Half-Plate stats.

Now in the Pulpy appendix N world, there are many instances of the Hero using nothing more than a shield or even a helm and shield. I'm not a real numbery rulesy kinda guy, and I want a way to make having a shield be a bit more worth it than a measly +1AC bonus.

So I was thinking that maybe if you are wearing armor then shields work as written. However if you choose to forego armor and just use a shield then the AC bonus should be more?!?!? But how much more ? And should you have maybe a D3 fumble die if using just a shield? or none at all.

All in all, I would like for a player who wants to run around in fur underwear with a shield not have to feel like a chump as he goes up in level. What is a simple quick way to handle this?

any thoughts, ideas, or house rules already in use for this kind of thing?


here is what i came up with.

plate armor is +5 ac with a -5 action penalty
half plate is +4/-4
chain and scale are both +3, but, chain is -3 while scale (the cruder version of chain) is -4
hardened leather and hides are both +2 hardened leather is -2 while hides (the cruder version of hardened leather) is -3
soft leather and padded armor are both +1 again the penalty is -1/-2
shields add +2/-1
helms add +1/-1 and by helm i mean serious head protection, not a skull cap of leather.
i'm also contemplating adding the luck bonus (good or bad) to ac as well.

now a "pulpy" fighter in soft leather, shield and helm starts with ac14 before any agility/luck/deed bonus.


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 Post subject: Re: More "pulp" like armor
PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2013 9:04 pm 
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Joined: Sat Jul 15, 2006 12:09 pm
Posts: 177
Another option is to change the armor classes of monsters to be no better than the armor available in your campaign.

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