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 Post subject: Player vs Character XP
PostPosted: Thu Aug 23, 2012 11:04 am 
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Ill-Fated Peasant

Joined: Thu Aug 23, 2012 9:40 am
Posts: 3
Howdy all, first post here. I wanted to share a house rule that I'm using regarding XP.

I'm giving the XP to the players rather than to their characters.

What's the difference? Well, if Blackleaf the Thief dies then Marcy doesn't need to worry, she can come back into the game with a new character of equivalent level as soon as the story gives an opening for such a character to appear.

(Until then she can run the monsters for me...and bring woe to the PCs)

This little "security blanket" really helped the players to buy into the deadly nature of DCC play (they are used to playing AD&D3.5) and the fact I roll in the open with no kid gloves.

Crossada


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 Post subject: Re: Player vs Character XP
PostPosted: Thu Aug 23, 2012 12:35 pm 
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Oh, yeah -- letting new characters come in with the same XP as the other characters is a perfectly viable option. Been doing it for years.

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Gnome Boy (a.k.a. "Jon") • DCC play-tester @ DDC 35, Feb 2011. • Beta DL 2111, 7:00 AM PT, 8 June 11.
Playing RPGs since 1977 • Quasi-occasional member of the Legion of 8th-Level Fighters - Holds the power to play gnomes at will!

Here Be DCC Monsters...

General Yoros, Warrior, Str 13, Agl 8 (10), Stm 17, Per 13, Int 11, Lck 8; Law, HP 39, AC 17, R+2, F+4, W+2, band/shld, warhammer, longsword, longbow, pitchfork

Han Dee, (Weaver) Neutral Thief, Str 10, Agi 13, Stm 11, Per 11, Int 15, Lck 14, AC 13 (Leather), HP 25, Luck Die d6, Backstab 3, Sneak Silently 10, Hide In Shadows 9, Pick Pocket 10, Climb Sheer 10, Pick Lock 9, Find Trap 9, Disable Trap 9, Forge Doc 10, Disguise 3, Read Lang 5, Handle Poison 3, Cast Scroll d14+2, birth augur (Born under the loom) +1 to all skill checks (including thief skills), Banepicks (auto pick lock/disable trap, but lose 1d3 random ability loss, if a 3 then 1 pt is perm)


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 Post subject: Re: Player vs Character XP
PostPosted: Thu Aug 23, 2012 1:05 pm 
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Cold-Blooded Diabolist

Joined: Fri Apr 06, 2012 3:36 am
Posts: 525
I do the same in most games that I run.

I have been considering a DCC specific process of having XP be awarded to each character and having each player manage a stable of characters - one as their current "active" character and the rest as either subordinates to that character or the equivalent of allied NPCs that the players, rather than I, control - so as to facilitate campaigns where "the party" number around 12 to 20 (for 5 or 6 players) rather than being locked to a 1:1 player:character ratio.

In that instance is about the only time I could see XP being for the character instead of for the player... and I would probably have some rule about some XP being specifically for the active characters and another portion being for the player to assign as desired amongst inactive characters.


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 Post subject: Re: Player vs Character XP
PostPosted: Thu Aug 23, 2012 1:41 pm 
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Crossada wrote:
Well, if Blackleaf the Thief dies then Marcy doesn't need to worry, she can come back into the game with a new character of equivalent level as soon as the story gives an opening for such a character to appear.



haha, awesome Chick reference.

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RoM pbp:
Hamun Ry (Wiz 4)
Str 10 Agi 15 (+1) Sta 11 Per 11 Int 17 (+2) Luc 10 (Unholy House). Align: C. AC: 14. HP: 13. Melee +1, Ranged +2. Crit: d8, I. Save: Ref +5, Fort +3, Will +4.
Spells: 1: Choking Cloud, Comprehend Languages, Detect Magic (odd crystal growths), Magic Missile (mirror images), Runic Alphabet (Mortal) (ravenously hungry), Ventriloquism (rain of frogs)
2: Detect Invisible, Levitate (extremely difficult, d14), Mirror Image (20% chance to raise/lower luck by 1d3 points).
Equip: Ring of the Sand Djinn: +2 AC/saves, Invisibility for 1min/spellburn point, or unmake for great, unknown effect. Padded Armor, Longsword, Longbow, quiver w/20 steel-tipped arrows, 10 silver-tipped arrows, backpack, spellbook, quill and ink, sturdy parchment (10 sheets), 5 days rations, high leather boots, belt w/ belt pouch, gray robe, dark gray hooded cloak. Also carries 3 small mechanical toys: wind-up mouse, wooden puzzle cube, small jewelry box that plays a little tune.


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 Post subject: Re: Player vs Character XP
PostPosted: Thu Aug 23, 2012 2:40 pm 
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It's a great idea, but keep a couple of factors in mind:
1) Are there any players who can't make it to play on a regular basis?
2) Is the group okay with this?

I had one group where a guy had some financial issues and had to take a second job. As a consequence, he missed half or more than half of the gaming sessions. This could mean that he's 3rd level when everyone else is 6th (statment made without consulting actual XP charts; you get the idea). He might not find it fun to always be behind the group in power, and the group might want to discuss this sort of thing.

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 Post subject: Re: Player vs Character XP
PostPosted: Thu Aug 23, 2012 2:51 pm 
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beermotor wrote:
Crossada wrote:
Well, if Blackleaf the Thief dies then Marcy doesn't need to worry, she can come back into the game with a new character of equivalent level as soon as the story gives an opening for such a character to appear.



haha, awesome Chick reference.


Wow, I totally missed that -- guess I was too busy fighting the zombie.

_________________
Gnome Boy (a.k.a. "Jon") • DCC play-tester @ DDC 35, Feb 2011. • Beta DL 2111, 7:00 AM PT, 8 June 11.
Playing RPGs since 1977 • Quasi-occasional member of the Legion of 8th-Level Fighters - Holds the power to play gnomes at will!

Here Be DCC Monsters...

General Yoros, Warrior, Str 13, Agl 8 (10), Stm 17, Per 13, Int 11, Lck 8; Law, HP 39, AC 17, R+2, F+4, W+2, band/shld, warhammer, longsword, longbow, pitchfork

Han Dee, (Weaver) Neutral Thief, Str 10, Agi 13, Stm 11, Per 11, Int 15, Lck 14, AC 13 (Leather), HP 25, Luck Die d6, Backstab 3, Sneak Silently 10, Hide In Shadows 9, Pick Pocket 10, Climb Sheer 10, Pick Lock 9, Find Trap 9, Disable Trap 9, Forge Doc 10, Disguise 3, Read Lang 5, Handle Poison 3, Cast Scroll d14+2, birth augur (Born under the loom) +1 to all skill checks (including thief skills), Banepicks (auto pick lock/disable trap, but lose 1d3 random ability loss, if a 3 then 1 pt is perm)


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 Post subject: Re: Player vs Character XP
PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2012 2:41 pm 
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Far-Sighted Wanderer

Joined: Wed Jun 06, 2012 3:36 pm
Posts: 12
In the Dragon Age campaign I play (and in my Barrowmaze-campaign too, for that matter) one always creates a 1st-level character. New player joins in? 1st level character. A character dies in the action? 1st level character. Want a change of pace and try another class? Y'know the routine.

Death should mean something - levelling up is the reward for not dying.

The most generous thing I would consider is losing 50% (or 75%) of XP, and going from there.


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 Post subject: Re: Player vs Character XP
PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2012 3:39 pm 
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Location: Left Coast, USA
Ynas Midgard wrote:
levelling up is the reward for not dying.

There are absolutely players for whom that works, and works well.

There are players, like the group I'm in, where that line would be 'playing is the reward for playing'. No reason to 'punish' someone for a random die roll that means their character is dead. YMMV.

Some groups need a carrot and a stick. Some just need chips and salsa. And some need beer. DSFDF.

_________________
Gnome Boy (a.k.a. "Jon") • DCC play-tester @ DDC 35, Feb 2011. • Beta DL 2111, 7:00 AM PT, 8 June 11.
Playing RPGs since 1977 • Quasi-occasional member of the Legion of 8th-Level Fighters - Holds the power to play gnomes at will!

Here Be DCC Monsters...

General Yoros, Warrior, Str 13, Agl 8 (10), Stm 17, Per 13, Int 11, Lck 8; Law, HP 39, AC 17, R+2, F+4, W+2, band/shld, warhammer, longsword, longbow, pitchfork

Han Dee, (Weaver) Neutral Thief, Str 10, Agi 13, Stm 11, Per 11, Int 15, Lck 14, AC 13 (Leather), HP 25, Luck Die d6, Backstab 3, Sneak Silently 10, Hide In Shadows 9, Pick Pocket 10, Climb Sheer 10, Pick Lock 9, Find Trap 9, Disable Trap 9, Forge Doc 10, Disguise 3, Read Lang 5, Handle Poison 3, Cast Scroll d14+2, birth augur (Born under the loom) +1 to all skill checks (including thief skills), Banepicks (auto pick lock/disable trap, but lose 1d3 random ability loss, if a 3 then 1 pt is perm)


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 Post subject: Re: Player vs Character XP
PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2012 7:21 pm 
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Cold-Hearted Immortal
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Joined: Mon Jun 25, 2012 8:01 am
Posts: 1200
Location: Atlanta, GA
GnomeBoy wrote:
beermotor wrote:
Crossada wrote:
Well, if Blackleaf the Thief dies then Marcy doesn't need to worry, she can come back into the game with a new character of equivalent level as soon as the story gives an opening for such a character to appear.



haha, awesome Chick reference.


Wow, I totally missed that -- guess I was too busy fighting the zombie.

:lol:

My brain is full of useless trivia. But that Chick pamphlett was pretty memorable.

_________________

RoM pbp:
Hamun Ry (Wiz 4)
Str 10 Agi 15 (+1) Sta 11 Per 11 Int 17 (+2) Luc 10 (Unholy House). Align: C. AC: 14. HP: 13. Melee +1, Ranged +2. Crit: d8, I. Save: Ref +5, Fort +3, Will +4.
Spells: 1: Choking Cloud, Comprehend Languages, Detect Magic (odd crystal growths), Magic Missile (mirror images), Runic Alphabet (Mortal) (ravenously hungry), Ventriloquism (rain of frogs)
2: Detect Invisible, Levitate (extremely difficult, d14), Mirror Image (20% chance to raise/lower luck by 1d3 points).
Equip: Ring of the Sand Djinn: +2 AC/saves, Invisibility for 1min/spellburn point, or unmake for great, unknown effect. Padded Armor, Longsword, Longbow, quiver w/20 steel-tipped arrows, 10 silver-tipped arrows, backpack, spellbook, quill and ink, sturdy parchment (10 sheets), 5 days rations, high leather boots, belt w/ belt pouch, gray robe, dark gray hooded cloak. Also carries 3 small mechanical toys: wind-up mouse, wooden puzzle cube, small jewelry box that plays a little tune.


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 Post subject: Re: Player vs Character XP
PostPosted: Fri Aug 31, 2012 12:24 am 
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I'm planing to use a modified rule from Adventurer Conqueror King that I really like:

When a character spends his gold for nothing of actual value (ale, whores, giving it to the poor, giving it to random strangers, throwing it in the sea) they gain a reservoir of XP that their next character starts with. That reservoir is 1 tenth of the gold they spend. So if they spend 100 gp "for nothing", their next character starts with 10 XP and thus first level. This counts only for their next character, not all future characters. If they spend 500, they can start at Level 2, and so on. Also, the maximum that they can invest in this way will never bring them above their current character's level.


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 Post subject: Re: Player vs Character XP
PostPosted: Fri Aug 31, 2012 5:28 am 
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Wild-Eyed Zealot

Joined: Tue Jun 07, 2011 9:12 pm
Posts: 108
While some players might play well with your rules you should keep in mind not all will.

I have one player for whom this rule would ruin the game. With no real penalty to death for the player he would throw away his characters lives of a whim or a lark.

We tried this back when I was running pathfinder( we actually tried group exp rules,the party gets a exp total and all characters coming into the game received it on entry).

For this player because death had no bite he felt no need to treat the game seriously. If his character died he would simply pull out another premade character and begin play.

Only once this rule was removed did this otherwise good player pull back into line.


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 Post subject: Re: Player vs Character XP
PostPosted: Fri Aug 31, 2012 12:24 pm 
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Cold-Blooded Diabolist

Joined: Mon Jan 06, 2003 6:19 pm
Posts: 527
We just use the tried and true henchman advancement rule from 1st edition. There are typically three or four henchman or hirelings that can easily be adopted as PC's when a "lead PC" dies. It pretty much becomes luck of the draw, though -- some henchman may still be 1st level, some may be higher. It worked great in our AD&D games, so we just brought it forward for DCC -- where it's even more lethal.

I agree that there should be consequences for death. That's the whole point of the funnel (which, in my opinion, does not stop at 1st level). That being said, though, we have started characters at higher levels -- just depends on the campaign.

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 Post subject: Re: Player vs Character XP
PostPosted: Fri Aug 31, 2012 1:02 pm 
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I used to track XP very diligently. Now, I couldn't care less. For one thing, XP is very arbitrary. What earns XP? Only combat? Why? What if you play in a low-combat, high role-play game, will you then level up less often? If a DM can decide how many XP (0-4) should be attributed per encounter, why not simply allow him to decide when the PCs level up? I do the latter. I let the PCs level up to spice things up, once in a while. There might have been more or less combat, RP, etc..., who cares, really?

On the matter of new PCs, I let them in at the level of the players. Consequence for death? Man, all players I've played with care about their PC. They don't like losing one. It's punishment enough to have one die. No need to rub it in, IMO.

Sir Robilar wrote:
I'm planing to use a modified rule from Adventurer Conqueror King that I really like:

When a character spends his gold for nothing of actual value (ale, whores, giving it to the poor, giving it to random strangers, throwing it in the sea) they gain a reservoir of XP that their next character starts with. That reservoir is 1 tenth of the gold they spend. So if they spend 100 gp "for nothing", their next character starts with 10 XP and thus first level. This counts only for their next character, not all future characters. If they spend 500, they can start at Level 2, and so on. Also, the maximum that they can invest in this way will never bring them above their current character's level.


This is kind of a weird rule, and I would run it by my players to see if they like it before houseruling it in, if I were you. If your players like to be immersed in your game-world, this rule might irk them, as useless spending of money would meta-buy XP for other PCs who are not even rolled up yet. It also pushes the players to spend money for no other reason than to buy XP, which again is a metagame reason. From a RP standpoint, why do you wish to push all PCs to throw their money away? Because let's face it that's what's going to happen, all players will want to have a pool of passive XPs to allow a new PC to be of equivalent level with their own PC in case their PC dies. So your game is going to include some whacky spending sprees, that make no real sense from the PC's perspective, only from the player's perspective.

If you want to allow your players to start at the same level as the others, simply... Allow it. If you want your PCs to have less money, simply have them find less. But buying XP for others PCs with money seems like a weird recipee to me.

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Maledict Brothbreath, level 4 warrior, STR 16 (+2) AGI 7 (-1) STA 12 PER 9 INT 10 LUCK 15 (+1), AC: 16 Refl: +1 Fort: +2 Will: +1; lawful; Armor of the Lion and Lily's Blade.

Brother Sufferus, level 4 cleric, STR 13 (+1) AGI 15 (+1) STA 11 PER 13 (+1) INT 10 LUCK 9, AC: 11 (13 if wounded, 15 if down to half hit points), Refl: +3 Fort: +2 Will: +3, chaotic, Robe of the Faith, Scourge of the Maimed One, Darts of Pain.


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 Post subject: Re: Player vs Character XP
PostPosted: Fri Aug 31, 2012 2:54 pm 
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Skyscraper wrote:
This is kind of a weird rule, and I would run it by my players to see if they like it before houseruling it in, if I were you. If your players like to be immersed in your game-world, this rule might irk them, as useless spending of money would meta-buy XP for other PCs who are not even rolled up yet. It also pushes the players to spend money for no other reason than to buy XP, which again is a metagame reason. From a RP standpoint, why do you wish to push all PCs to throw their money away? Because let's face it that's what's going to happen, all players will want to have a pool of passive XPs to allow a new PC to be of equivalent level with their own PC in case their PC dies. So your game is going to include some whacky spending sprees, that make no real sense from the PC's perspective, only from the player's perspective.


Guess I should have explained the intention of this rule. It gives the players a reason to have their characters behave like the heroes in Sword & Sorcery stories. "Heroes" that have the bad habit of senselessly spending their well earned coin on ale, wenches or losing it in the gutter between their adventures. So it makes sense from these character's perspectives and encourages an Appendix N fitting play style.


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 Post subject: Re: Player vs Character XP
PostPosted: Sat Sep 15, 2012 3:16 pm 
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I'm thinking of going with a "mentor" system of "Bonus xp for every level between a character and the highest level character in the group."

Highest level character in the group is 3rd level? 2nd level characters get +1 xp every time xp is handed out; 1st level characters get +2 xp; 0 level characters get +3 xp.

That way, lower level characters will catch up to but never quite equal the highest level character, and it sorta recreates D&D's system of having harder monsters grant more xp without changing the entire DCC xp system. All around, it's the best compromise I can think of between staying the same level (which I like for some games, but goes against a lot of the DCC 'feel,') and the sting of starting all the way back at 0 level and grinding your way back up.


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 Post subject: Re: Player vs Character XP
PostPosted: Sat Sep 15, 2012 4:29 pm 
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Varkias wrote:
I'm thinking of going with a "mentor" system of "Bonus xp for every level between a character and the highest level character in the group."

Highest level character in the group is 3rd level? 2nd level characters get +1 xp every time xp is handed out; 1st level characters get +2 xp; 0 level characters get +3 xp.


Simple and elegant. I like it!

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 Post subject: Re: Player vs Character XP
PostPosted: Sat Sep 15, 2012 5:19 pm 
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nerdwerds wrote:
Varkias wrote:
I'm thinking of going with a "mentor" system of "Bonus xp for every level between a character and the highest level character in the group."

Highest level character in the group is 3rd level? 2nd level characters get +1 xp every time xp is handed out; 1st level characters get +2 xp; 0 level characters get +3 xp.


Simple and elegant. I like it!

Agreed.

I like partys of different levels, and I liked the way 3e handled differential XP, so I like this solution. :)

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Gnome Boy (a.k.a. "Jon") • DCC play-tester @ DDC 35, Feb 2011. • Beta DL 2111, 7:00 AM PT, 8 June 11.
Playing RPGs since 1977 • Quasi-occasional member of the Legion of 8th-Level Fighters - Holds the power to play gnomes at will!

Here Be DCC Monsters...

General Yoros, Warrior, Str 13, Agl 8 (10), Stm 17, Per 13, Int 11, Lck 8; Law, HP 39, AC 17, R+2, F+4, W+2, band/shld, warhammer, longsword, longbow, pitchfork

Han Dee, (Weaver) Neutral Thief, Str 10, Agi 13, Stm 11, Per 11, Int 15, Lck 14, AC 13 (Leather), HP 25, Luck Die d6, Backstab 3, Sneak Silently 10, Hide In Shadows 9, Pick Pocket 10, Climb Sheer 10, Pick Lock 9, Find Trap 9, Disable Trap 9, Forge Doc 10, Disguise 3, Read Lang 5, Handle Poison 3, Cast Scroll d14+2, birth augur (Born under the loom) +1 to all skill checks (including thief skills), Banepicks (auto pick lock/disable trap, but lose 1d3 random ability loss, if a 3 then 1 pt is perm)


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 Post subject: Re: Player vs Character XP
PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2012 8:59 am 
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Cold-Blooded Diabolist

Joined: Fri Apr 06, 2012 3:36 am
Posts: 525
GnomeBoy wrote:
...I liked the way 3e handled differential XP...


I knew there statistically had to be someone out there in the great, wide, wonderful world that would say that... I also knew the chance of me hearing/seeing them say it was equally slim. I feel like I have just won the lottery.

In all seriousness, I appreciate the desire for party members of varying levels and for rewards for overcoming challenges to scale to relative ability to handle the challenge (so that the underdog gets a bonus for pulling off a long shot and the super-power doesn't get even more super-powerful boiling ant hills)... but 3rd Edition D&D's giant chart-o-numbers was way too... something.

The whole thing could easily have been what we have in the DCC book - a 0 to 4 scale left to the judgement of the people playing the game, rather than some chart that says X monster is worth Y experience to a Z level character no matter whether the character had no trouble at all or lost multiple companions and nearly died as well...

I am probably jaded by players I experienced whilst playing that edition... the type to have it in their heads that if there were a high level party battling a dragon happened upon by a level 1 character that then threw a rock at the dragon and hid in the bushes until the battle was won, that said level 1 character would receive a share of experience as if he had defeated the encounter (despite any logical argument that an attack which has zero chance of causing damage does not constitute meaningful participation)


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 Post subject: Re: Player vs Character XP
PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2012 9:27 am 
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Always happy to provide you with a soapbox, there, Nobes. I have a surplus of them, and having an outlet for things unwanted is always a good thing.

Implicitly, you assume slavish devotion to the chart. Never mind the mind's never needing to use the numbers slavishly until a numbness of the mind sets in, never to know the freedom you enjoy. The structural scaffold of that 3e system is sound, and anyone can do what they want with it. If I were to use it as a guideline, and adjust as needed, why not? Because I simply don't need to, and could use pure reason to decide the numbers, perhaps?

The problem with that is I'm a brainless, twitterpated old fart who can't add too and too to get fore. If were better with numbers, perhaps I too could win the lottery.

Hey! Who threw that rock!

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Gnome Boy (a.k.a. "Jon") • DCC play-tester @ DDC 35, Feb 2011. • Beta DL 2111, 7:00 AM PT, 8 June 11.
Playing RPGs since 1977 • Quasi-occasional member of the Legion of 8th-Level Fighters - Holds the power to play gnomes at will!

Here Be DCC Monsters...

General Yoros, Warrior, Str 13, Agl 8 (10), Stm 17, Per 13, Int 11, Lck 8; Law, HP 39, AC 17, R+2, F+4, W+2, band/shld, warhammer, longsword, longbow, pitchfork

Han Dee, (Weaver) Neutral Thief, Str 10, Agi 13, Stm 11, Per 11, Int 15, Lck 14, AC 13 (Leather), HP 25, Luck Die d6, Backstab 3, Sneak Silently 10, Hide In Shadows 9, Pick Pocket 10, Climb Sheer 10, Pick Lock 9, Find Trap 9, Disable Trap 9, Forge Doc 10, Disguise 3, Read Lang 5, Handle Poison 3, Cast Scroll d14+2, birth augur (Born under the loom) +1 to all skill checks (including thief skills), Banepicks (auto pick lock/disable trap, but lose 1d3 random ability loss, if a 3 then 1 pt is perm)


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 Post subject: Re: Player vs Character XP
PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2012 7:12 pm 
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Varkias wrote:
I'm thinking of going with a "mentor" system of "Bonus xp for every level between a character and the highest level character in the group."


This is going straight into my House Rules. Thanks you very much!


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 Post subject: Re: Player vs Character XP
PostPosted: Sun Sep 23, 2012 10:37 pm 
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Crossada wrote:
Howdy all, first post here. I wanted to share a house rule that I'm using regarding XP.

I'm giving the XP to the players rather than to their characters.

What's the difference? Well, if Blackleaf the Thief dies then Marcy doesn't need to worry, she can come back into the game with a new character of equivalent level as soon as the story gives an opening for such a character to appear.

(Until then she can run the monsters for me...and bring woe to the PCs)

This little "security blanket" really helped the players to buy into the deadly nature of DCC play (they are used to playing AD&D3.5) and the fact I roll in the open with no kid gloves.

Crossada


Eh, I've always been a bit cruel then, all new characters have 0 xp. Its up to them to survive and grow even in these harsh conditions. But then I've got a good group of mature roleplayers.


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 Post subject: Re: Player vs Character XP
PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2012 8:42 am 
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CocoaRobbins wrote:
Eh, I've always been a bit cruel then, all new characters have 0 xp. Its up to them to survive and grow even in these harsh conditions. But then I've got a good group of mature roleplayers.

Surviving could be a tall order, if you happen to have a party that's, say, 5th Level and someone has to start with a Level Zero-er... But it might be fun nonetheless to see how that plays out! :mrgreen:

_________________
Gnome Boy (a.k.a. "Jon") • DCC play-tester @ DDC 35, Feb 2011. • Beta DL 2111, 7:00 AM PT, 8 June 11.
Playing RPGs since 1977 • Quasi-occasional member of the Legion of 8th-Level Fighters - Holds the power to play gnomes at will!

Here Be DCC Monsters...

General Yoros, Warrior, Str 13, Agl 8 (10), Stm 17, Per 13, Int 11, Lck 8; Law, HP 39, AC 17, R+2, F+4, W+2, band/shld, warhammer, longsword, longbow, pitchfork

Han Dee, (Weaver) Neutral Thief, Str 10, Agi 13, Stm 11, Per 11, Int 15, Lck 14, AC 13 (Leather), HP 25, Luck Die d6, Backstab 3, Sneak Silently 10, Hide In Shadows 9, Pick Pocket 10, Climb Sheer 10, Pick Lock 9, Find Trap 9, Disable Trap 9, Forge Doc 10, Disguise 3, Read Lang 5, Handle Poison 3, Cast Scroll d14+2, birth augur (Born under the loom) +1 to all skill checks (including thief skills), Banepicks (auto pick lock/disable trap, but lose 1d3 random ability loss, if a 3 then 1 pt is perm)


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