Goodman Games

Fan Forums
It is currently Sat Nov 22, 2014 5:38 am

All times are UTC - 6 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 7 posts ] 
Author Message
 Post subject: Wizard with or without Patron
PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2012 3:58 pm 
Offline
Hard-Bitten Adventurer
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jul 30, 2012 2:40 pm
Posts: 184
Location: West Palm Beach, Fl
So I have a player that is about to start a Wizard. Now his zero occupation was apprentice, and we have already established that his Master is Dead. I am cool with the fact that his 1st level spells are the ones he had been learning from said Master.

Now the benefit of a Patron would be that when he levels and gains more spell slots it would be the Patron supplying him with new spells (for a price of course), correct?

And if he does not get the Invoke Patron spell, then he can't have a Patron and needs to beg, steal, or adventure to find new spells.

I guess what I'm wondering, is why wouldn't a Wizard want a Patron? I really dig the whole idea of Patrons, and I want to make sure I don't give away too much to fast to the Wizard player.

_________________
Ah well, who wants to live forever? DIE!
worldoferoc.blogspot.com


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Wizard with or without Patron
PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2012 5:12 am 
Offline
Far-Sighted Wanderer

Joined: Fri Jun 24, 2011 5:03 am
Posts: 35
Actually wizards typically gain spells through discovery (pg. 315 see table 7-1 Where is spell knowledge found?). The benefit of a Patron is that is the only way to obtain the Patron spells and and such which can be nice.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Wizard with or without Patron
PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2012 5:21 am 
Offline
Cold-Hearted Immortal
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jun 25, 2012 8:01 am
Posts: 1200
Location: Atlanta, GA
Patrons can also be demanding and a pain in the neck, plus patron taint can be quite a bit more troublesome than regular ole corruption. So it's not just a win situation... there's definitely a trade off. Yes, the rewards are high, but so are the risks, IMO.

_________________

RoM pbp:
Hamun Ry (Wiz 4)
Str 10 Agi 15 (+1) Sta 11 Per 11 Int 17 (+2) Luc 10 (Unholy House). Align: C. AC: 14. HP: 13. Melee +1, Ranged +2. Crit: d8, I. Save: Ref +5, Fort +3, Will +4.
Spells: 1: Choking Cloud, Comprehend Languages, Detect Magic (odd crystal growths), Magic Missile (mirror images), Runic Alphabet (Mortal) (ravenously hungry), Ventriloquism (rain of frogs)
2: Detect Invisible, Levitate (extremely difficult, d14), Mirror Image (20% chance to raise/lower luck by 1d3 points).
Equip: Ring of the Sand Djinn: +2 AC/saves, Invisibility for 1min/spellburn point, or unmake for great, unknown effect. Padded Armor, Longsword, Longbow, quiver w/20 steel-tipped arrows, 10 silver-tipped arrows, backpack, spellbook, quill and ink, sturdy parchment (10 sheets), 5 days rations, high leather boots, belt w/ belt pouch, gray robe, dark gray hooded cloak. Also carries 3 small mechanical toys: wind-up mouse, wooden puzzle cube, small jewelry box that plays a little tune.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Wizard with or without Patron
PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2012 6:31 pm 
Offline
Hard-Bitten Adventurer
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jul 30, 2012 2:40 pm
Posts: 184
Location: West Palm Beach, Fl
Ah, so the Patron should really just supply the Wizard with unique Patron spells. But the standard spells still have to be found, stolen, adventured for. Plus, the Patron could supply some of that page 315 knowledge as well to the Wizard.

Hmm, really a lot to think about.

_________________
Ah well, who wants to live forever? DIE!
worldoferoc.blogspot.com


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Wizard with or without Patron
PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2012 7:27 pm 
Offline
Cold-Hearted Immortal
User avatar

Joined: Fri Mar 16, 2012 11:41 am
Posts: 2212
The following is all IMHO, and whatever works for you is obviously what you should do!

Patrons are supernatural creatures which will bond with a wizard or elf because it serves their interests. Wizards and elves may bond with these beings because their interests are served as well. It is a semi-symbiotic relationship, but it is one in which the patron usually holds the trump card. For everything the patron does for the mortal, the patron will expect something in return. This is in addition to the effects of patron taint, which can be severe. Yet acquiring a patron is the road to true arcane power, for only through a patron can a mortal hope to wield greater-than-mortal powers.

A patron should be a source of spells, and a source of information on where to find spell formulae. But the patron is also a source of adventures based on its demands on the wizard or elf. The relationship with the patron should be at least as much a matter of role-playing as it is one of rolling dice. The mortal should wonder whether or not taking this particular patron was a good decision or not. Sometimes it should seem a good decision. Sometimes it should seem a real burden.

There are a lot of examples of this type of relationship in Appendix N fiction -- not only the heroes who take patrons, such as Elric, but also the villains who do the same. If you can find Manly Wade Wellman's Who Fears the Devil?, there are some excellent (and creepy) examples in that book. Even nominally "good" patrons, like Ardneh in Fred Saberhagen's Changeling Earth or the Silent Ones in A. Merritt's The Moon Pool, are willing to sacrifice their pawns if they need to in order to win the game.

Don't forget that, for every favour done, the patron gets a marker to call in from the caster. This means that the judge can send the caster on quests that the caster might otherwise prefer to avoid. Want to run Raggi's Death Frost Doom, but feel certain that your players would never have their characters enter the petrified cabin? When the wizard's patron tells him to go, you can feel certain that at least one of the players is committed. And how you play their involvement depends upon the patron. Some patrons may wish to keep the status quo, sending the PCs to stop an NPC party. Some may wish to recover something without disturbing the dead. Some may simply sacrifice the caster in order to overrun a town with an army of darkness.

You might also want to take a look at how patrons are described in DCC modules. In The Portal Under the Stars, the goat-man is looking for a tool on this plane. In The Emerald Enchanter, the patron helps the titular miscreant chain various demons for his experiments. The patrons described in The Ooze Pits of Jonas Gralk and Perils of the Sunken City are ones most mortals would consider it wise to avoid -- in Perils, the ruined area is ruined because a patron felt insulted by the caster taking on a second patron!

Don't even get me started on The Balance Blade, although you can be damn sure that this module is entirely in keeping with the sort of things that occur in Appendix N fiction. I intend to run it in my regular campaign, with the only change being omitting the Will save at the end -- the player can choose to act as his patron demands, or sever the relationship and earn that patron's enmity.

The judge should keep a patron's personality in mind, and try to ensure that the player or a wizard or elf is constantly reminded of who his patron is. A player who chooses a patron on the basis of spells, invoke patron results, and other tables without actually looking to see how the patron is described is making a mistake. Serving Moorcock's Arioch should not seem like serving Lovecraft's Nyarlathotep, and neither should seem like serving Wellman's One Other, if for no other reason than that they present themselves differently and have different goals.

The more the caster serves the patron's agenda, the more the patron is willing to do for him. This might include things far beyond the mere spells and invocations described in the Core Rulebook -- again, let Appendix N fiction and modules like The Emerald Enchanter and The 13th Skull be your guide here. Even a relatively benign patron, like Radu, King of Rabbits, has an agenda. Serve your patron well and you will be rewarded. Depending upon the patron, that might be a heartfelt reward, or it might last only until you are no longer useful.

Patrons allow you to do great things. But when you have a patron, you are no longer entirely your own person. There are pros and cons to both having a patron, and shunning patrons altogether. If a mortal is going to seek a patron, he should be wary about which patron to accept, for there are many more bad deals than good in the shifting planes of the cosmos. Many crafty and cruel beings harken to the first call of a mortal seeking a patron, and they will take much in exchange for little. If your casters are ever entirely certain that they have chosen wisely, then you are far more lenient than I am!

Good gaming!

Daniel

_________________
SoBH pbp:

Cathbad the Meek (herbalist Wizard 1): AC 9; 4 hp; S 7, A 7, St 10, P 17, I 13, L 8; Neutral; Club, herbs, 50' rope, 50 cp; -1 to melee attack rolls. Hideous scar.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Wizard with or without Patron
PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2012 4:42 pm 
Offline
Hard-Bitten Adventurer
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jul 30, 2012 2:40 pm
Posts: 184
Location: West Palm Beach, Fl
Thanks Raven_Crowking, that helps a lot. I find myself REALLY having to shake out the DnD cobwebs from my brain. It is funny how I never really did anything like this in all those years of DnD playing, and I've read quite a bit of the App. N books as well throughout the years.

_________________
Ah well, who wants to live forever? DIE!
worldoferoc.blogspot.com


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Wizard with or without Patron
PostPosted: Sat Sep 01, 2012 6:04 pm 
Offline
Cold-Hearted Immortal
User avatar

Joined: Fri Mar 16, 2012 11:41 am
Posts: 2212
themightyeroc wrote:
Thanks Raven_Crowking, that helps a lot. I find myself REALLY having to shake out the DnD cobwebs from my brain. It is funny how I never really did anything like this in all those years of DnD playing, and I've read quite a bit of the App. N books as well throughout the years.


Any time! :D

_________________
SoBH pbp:

Cathbad the Meek (herbalist Wizard 1): AC 9; 4 hp; S 7, A 7, St 10, P 17, I 13, L 8; Neutral; Club, herbs, 50' rope, 50 cp; -1 to melee attack rolls. Hideous scar.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 7 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 6 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot] and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
cron
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group