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 Post subject: Gygax pre-"Appendix N"
PostPosted: Sat Jul 21, 2012 7:05 am 
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We know that in 1979 Gary Gygax published the AD&D Dungeon Master’s Guide with its famous”Appendix N’ composed of Gary’s recommended reading for inspiration of the game.

Did you know that Gary published a similar (shorter) list in 1976? If you go back to December, 1976, in Dragon Magazine #4 you can find an earlier version of the list. Gary called it “FANTASY/SWORDS & SORCERY: RECOMMENDED READING” and it’s interesting.

AUTHORS (SPECIFIC WORK)
Anderson, Poul (Three Hearts and Three Lions)
Blackwood, Algernon
Brackett, Leigh
Burroughs, E.R. (John Carter of Mars; et al)
Carter, Lin (Warrior of the Worlds End)
deCamp & Pratt (Incomplete Enchanter; Castle of Iron; et al)
Farmer, P.J. (Gates of Creation; et al)
Fox, G.F. (Kother the Barbarian; et al)
Howard, R.E. (Conan the Conqueror; et al)
Lanier, Sterling (Hiero’s Journey)
Leiber, Fritz (Swords of Lankhmar; et al)
Lovecraft, H.P.
Merritt, A. (Creep Shadow, Creep; Moon Pool; Face in the Abyss; Dwellers in the Mirage et al)
Moorcock, Michael (Stealer of Souls; Stormbringer)
Saberhagen, Fred (Changling Earth)
St. Clair, Margaret
Tolkien, J.R.R. (The Hobbit; Lord of the Rings Trilogy)
Vance, Jack (Eyes of Overworld; The Dying Earth)
Weinbaum, Stanley
Wellman, M. W.
Zelazny, Roger (Jack of Shadows; Lord of Light; Nine Princes of Amber series)

Interesting Notes:

1. NOT ON THE LIST YET

Several authors of Appendix N haven’t been included on this list: John Bellars, Frederick Brown, August Derleth, Lord Dunsany, Andre Norton, Andrew J Offutt, Fletcher Pratt, and Jack Williamson.

2. PURGED FROM THE LIST

For some reason, Algernon Blackwood appears on the 1976 list but not on the 1979 one. I wonder if it was an oversight, or if Gary decided he didn’t like Blackwood’s works as well as he did a few years before.

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 Post subject: Re: Gygax pre-"Appendix N"
PostPosted: Sat Jul 21, 2012 8:46 am 
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How well did Algernon's work mesh with the rest of Appendix N?


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 Post subject: Re: Gygax pre-"Appendix N"
PostPosted: Sat Jul 21, 2012 10:08 am 
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What is also interesting is that Clark Ashton Smith doesn't appear on eiither list. There are some people who believe his omission from the DMG list was an oversight. But in light of his omission from both lists, it's hard to believe it is accidental.

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 Post subject: Re: Gygax pre-"Appendix N"
PostPosted: Sat Jul 21, 2012 3:05 pm 
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goodmangames wrote:
What is also interesting is that Clark Ashton Smith doesn't appear on eiither list. There are some people who believe his omission from the DMG list was an oversight. But in light of his omission from both lists, it's hard to believe it is accidental.
A very interesting point, and one I hadn't considered. Strange to have him left off of both.

Personally, I dislike reading Lovecraft. I love his ideas, but something about the way he writes just doesn't do it for me. When I read Mythos fiction I'd much rather read Robert E. Howard's stories rather than Lovecraft's.

I wonder if Gary had a similar reaction to Smith, or if somehow he just never read any of Smith's work.

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 Post subject: Re: Gygax pre-"Appendix N"
PostPosted: Sat Jul 21, 2012 8:22 pm 
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Lovecraft is not a good writer. I mean this purely on an aesthetic level. His ideas are good, he knows how to set a mood, but his characters are flat and he can't write dialogue.

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 Post subject: Re: Gygax pre-"Appendix N"
PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2012 2:01 am 
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bitflipr wrote:
How well did Algernon's work mesh with the rest of Appendix N?


Algernon Blackwood is an interesting inclusion. I have a couple of volumes of his stories. His short stories are about the supernatural rather than outright sword and sorcery fantasy. His tales range from gentle fantasies to chilling ghost stories.


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 Post subject: Re: Gygax pre-"Appendix N"
PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2012 6:06 am 
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Vanguard wrote:
Lovecraft is not a good writer. I mean this purely on an aesthetic level. His ideas are good, he knows how to set a mood, but his characters are flat and he can't write dialogue.


Lovecraft writes in a mode that's half Gothic and half Icelandic Saga... sort of 18c. newspaper style. Some of the longer works are best because they're light on dialogue.

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 Post subject: Re: Gygax pre-"Appendix N"
PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2012 7:21 am 
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beermotor wrote:
Vanguard wrote:
Lovecraft is not a good writer. I mean this purely on an aesthetic level. His ideas are good, he knows how to set a mood, but his characters are flat and he can't write dialogue.
Lovecraft writes in a mode that's half Gothic and half Icelandic Saga... sort of 18c. newspaper style. Some of the longer works are best because they're light on dialogue.
I hate to say that he's not a good writer, only that I'm not a fan of his writing style. Maybe it's the Islandic Saga part that gets me ... I never could work my way through Beowulf. :P

What I like best about HPL is his ideas. That's why I like Robert E Howard's "mythos" stories, which sort of build on many of Lovecraft's ideas and then go off their own way. And I love everything REH ever wrote, I think. I can't say that about too many authors...

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"The worthy GM never purposely kills players' PCs, He presents opportunities for the rash and unthinking players to do that all on their own."
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 Post subject: Re: Gygax pre-"Appendix N"
PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2012 11:21 pm 
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CAS gets no respect! That is sad.


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 Post subject: Re: Gygax pre-"Appendix N"
PostPosted: Tue Jul 24, 2012 4:21 am 
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Karaptis wrote:
CAS gets no respect! That is sad.

And so strange. I haven't read much CAS, but clearly his style is one that should have placed him on one or both lists. It does seem strange that his name was an oversight twice, once in 1976 and again in 1979. :?

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"The worthy GM never purposely kills players' PCs, He presents opportunities for the rash and unthinking players to do that all on their own."
-- Gary Gygax
"Don't ask me what you need to hit. Just roll the die and I will let you know!"
-- Dave Arneson


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 Post subject: Re: Gygax pre-"Appendix N"
PostPosted: Tue Jul 24, 2012 8:38 am 
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The rumor was that Universal was gonna use his work for movies. Imagine CAS along side the names Shelley and Stoker.


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 Post subject: Re: Gygax pre-"Appendix N"
PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2012 8:29 am 
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finarvyn wrote:
beermotor wrote:
Vanguard wrote:
Lovecraft is not a good writer. I mean this purely on an aesthetic level. His ideas are good, he knows how to set a mood, but his characters are flat and he can't write dialogue.
Lovecraft writes in a mode that's half Gothic and half Icelandic Saga... sort of 18c. newspaper style. Some of the longer works are best because they're light on dialogue.
I hate to say that he's not a good writer, only that I'm not a fan of his writing style. Maybe it's the Islandic Saga part that gets me ... I never could work my way through Beowulf. :P

What I like best about HPL is his ideas. That's why I like Robert E Howard's "mythos" stories, which sort of build on many of Lovecraft's ideas and then go off their own way. And I love everything REH ever wrote, I think. I can't say that about too many authors...


Yes, I suppose you step on fewer toes with that approach. I will also admit, I'm not a reader of fantasy. It just isn't usually what I want out of a reading experience. I am, however, trying to change this. I've been going through GRRM ASoIaF series (not appendix N in the slightest), which is okay. I finished Swords and Deviltry this weekend and enjoyed it well enough. Currently I am going through Swords Against Death.

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 Post subject: Re: Gygax pre-"Appendix N"
PostPosted: Thu Jun 13, 2013 5:19 am 
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I am really impressed by this very infprmative post.Thanx for sharing it.

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 Post subject: Re: Gygax pre-"Appendix N"
PostPosted: Thu Jun 13, 2013 9:55 am 
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Aries86 wrote:
I am really impressed by this very informative post.Thanx for sharing it.
I'm not sure it was that much of a big deal. I found it and thought others would like it, and it's always neat to see what sorts of things inspired the original RPG authors.

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"The worthy GM never purposely kills players' PCs, He presents opportunities for the rash and unthinking players to do that all on their own."
-- Gary Gygax
"Don't ask me what you need to hit. Just roll the die and I will let you know!"
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 Post subject: Re: Gygax pre-"Appendix N"
PostPosted: Thu Jun 13, 2013 11:04 am 
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Aries86 wrote:
I am really impressed by this very infprmative post.Thanx for sharing it.

~spam alert~

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Han Dee, (Weaver) Neutral Thief, Str 10, Agi 13, Stm 11, Per 11, Int 15, Lck 14, AC 13 (Leather), HP 25, Luck Die d6, Backstab 3, Sneak Silently 10, Hide In Shadows 9, Pick Pocket 10, Climb Sheer 10, Pick Lock 9, Find Trap 9, Disable Trap 9, Forge Doc 10, Disguise 3, Read Lang 5, Handle Poison 3, Cast Scroll d14+2, birth augur (Born under the loom) +1 to all skill checks (including thief skills), Banepicks (auto pick lock/disable trap, but lose 1d3 random ability loss, if a 3 then 1 pt is perm)


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 Post subject: Re: Gygax pre-"Appendix N"
PostPosted: Fri Jun 14, 2013 3:08 pm 
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It was just close enough that I thought I'd gvie him the benefit of the doubt. One approved post isn't enough to avoid future moderation. If his next post doesn't have more content, I can give still him the heave ho.

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"The worthy GM never purposely kills players' PCs, He presents opportunities for the rash and unthinking players to do that all on their own."
-- Gary Gygax
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 Post subject: Re: Gygax pre-"Appendix N"
PostPosted: Fri Jun 14, 2013 3:38 pm 
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finarvyn wrote:
It was just close enough that I thought I'd gvie him the benefit of the doubt. One approved post isn't enough to avoid future moderation. If his next post doesn't have more content, I can give still him the heave ho.


You may be right, but it looks like a generic spambot post to me.

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 Post subject: Re: Gygax pre-"Appendix N"
PostPosted: Fri Jun 14, 2013 3:57 pm 
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Spambots are easily impressed and find everything informative... 8)

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General Yoros, Warrior, Str 13, Agl 8 (10), Stm 17, Per 13, Int 11, Lck 8; Law, HP 39, AC 17, R+2, F+4, W+2, band/shld, warhammer, longsword, longbow, pitchfork

Han Dee, (Weaver) Neutral Thief, Str 10, Agi 13, Stm 11, Per 11, Int 15, Lck 14, AC 13 (Leather), HP 25, Luck Die d6, Backstab 3, Sneak Silently 10, Hide In Shadows 9, Pick Pocket 10, Climb Sheer 10, Pick Lock 9, Find Trap 9, Disable Trap 9, Forge Doc 10, Disguise 3, Read Lang 5, Handle Poison 3, Cast Scroll d14+2, birth augur (Born under the loom) +1 to all skill checks (including thief skills), Banepicks (auto pick lock/disable trap, but lose 1d3 random ability loss, if a 3 then 1 pt is perm)


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 Post subject: Re: Gygax pre-"Appendix N"
PostPosted: Fri Jun 14, 2013 7:52 pm 
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I'm guessing it was an oversight as there are a few other authors of the "Lovecraft Circle" omitted from the list.


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