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 Post subject: Crawl! New Class Challenge! Intro (& suggestions thread.)
PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2012 12:40 pm 
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There is a lot of interest in new classes. From Barbarians & Druids to Rangers & now an Orc! I'm planning an issue of Crawl that will feature 4 or 5 new classes, and a few new occupation options & Colin's random trait generators. I'm going to need to figure out what classes everyone wants, then have a competition to design each class. Best design, as voted by a panel of Judges & the community, will pick the version of the classes that make it to print.

This is how it's going to work.

Stage One: Brainstorm! Throw out some classes you want to see in print. Keep it classy (heh.) Keep it classic. I expect the classic, in demand PHB classes to make this list. And we're going to be limited to only 4 or 5!
Note: Let's keep this first challenge to "Classic" classes only.

Stage Two: Draft picks. I'm going to put the best into a poll. The DCC RPG community will get to vote on the final 5 classes.

Stage Three: Class creation challenge. Once the 5 classes are picked, it'll be on the community to create these classes. Individual threads will be made where people can post their version of the class.

Stage Four: Selection! Select Judges, and the community, will critique each entry and then a final poll will determine the winning versions.

---

What do you guys think?
Should I change the format a bit?
I'm open for suggestions.

Look for the Crawl! New Class Challenge: Brainstorm! thread.

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"[...] there is no doubt that Dungeons and Dragons and its imitators are right out of the pit of hell." - William Schnoebelen, Straight talk on Dungeons & Dragons


Last edited by reverenddak on Fri Jul 13, 2012 1:05 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Crawl! New Class Challenge! Intro (& suggestions thread.
PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2012 12:47 pm 
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How do you feel about monstrous classes? Making that Orc has got some gears turning and I'm now playing with the ideas for a Lich/Intelligent Undead class. If you'd rather keep those kinds of ideas out, I understand. I already have an Orc for submission.

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 Post subject: Re: Crawl! New Class Challenge! Intro (& suggestions thread.
PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2012 12:49 pm 
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How about " race classes" ?
Elf Archer. Dwarf Giantslayer. Halfling Sheriff. Etc.

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 Post subject: Re: Crawl! New Class Challenge! Intro (& suggestions thread.
PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2012 12:52 pm 
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Vanguard wrote:
How do you feel about monstrous classes? Making that Orc has got some gears turning and I'm now playing with the ideas for a Lich/Intelligent Undead class. If you'd rather keep those kinds of ideas out, I understand. I already have an Orc for submission.


I'd prefer basic/classic classes. I was about to mention how I think the Orc would make a good Half-orc.

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(Dungeon) Master In Chief of Crawl! fanzine. - http://www.crawlfanzine.com/

"[...] there is no doubt that Dungeons and Dragons and its imitators are right out of the pit of hell." - William Schnoebelen, Straight talk on Dungeons & Dragons


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 Post subject: Re: Crawl! New Class Challenge! Intro (& suggestions thread.
PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2012 12:56 pm 
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Blood Axe wrote:
How about " race classes" ?
Elf Archer. Dwarf Giantslayer. Halfling Sheriff. Etc.


Absolutely. But that might deem worthy of its own issue. I like the other Race/classes in ACKS, and was thinking about converting those.

But a Gnome and Half-Orc would fit what I'd like to see.

As for new elves, dwarves & halflings. I'd like to see an Cleric-like (or crafting) Dwarf, an Thief-like Elf (assassin-like) and a Barbarian-like Halfling (cannibal?)

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(Dungeon) Master In Chief of Crawl! fanzine. - http://www.crawlfanzine.com/

"[...] there is no doubt that Dungeons and Dragons and its imitators are right out of the pit of hell." - William Schnoebelen, Straight talk on Dungeons & Dragons


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 Post subject: Re: Crawl! New Class Challenge! Intro (& suggestions thread.
PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2012 12:58 pm 
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reverenddak wrote:
Vanguard wrote:
How do you feel about monstrous classes? Making that Orc has got some gears turning and I'm now playing with the ideas for a Lich/Intelligent Undead class. If you'd rather keep those kinds of ideas out, I understand. I already have an Orc for submission.


I'd prefer basic/classic classes. I was about to mention how I think the Orc would make a good Half-orc.


Fair enough. I'm keeping my Orc full-blooded, though. Players who want half-breeds can houserule it. I'll have the 0-level professions up in the thread by the end of the weekend.

Maybe I'll try my hand at a Bard, as well. I was always a big fan of them.

But I'm definitely putting together a Lich for my own amusement.

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 Post subject: Re: Crawl! New Class Challenge! Intro (& suggestions thread.
PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2012 1:02 pm 
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Vanguard wrote:
I'm keeping my Orc full-blooded, though. Players who want half-breeds can houserule it. I'll have the 0-level professions up in the thread by the end of the weekend.

Maybe I'll try my hand at a Bard, as well. I was always a big fan of them.

But I'm definitely putting together a Lich for my own amusement.


I think you should submit a Half-orc with some of those properties, it'd rule. But I plan to leave the voting to the community.

But, man, an issue dedicated to Monstrous Classes would be AWESOME.

So, for this first (this could be a series!) I'd like this first New Class Challenge to be "Classic" classes. It'll help keep focused.

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(Dungeon) Master In Chief of Crawl! fanzine. - http://www.crawlfanzine.com/

"[...] there is no doubt that Dungeons and Dragons and its imitators are right out of the pit of hell." - William Schnoebelen, Straight talk on Dungeons & Dragons


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 Post subject: Re: Crawl! New Class Challenge! Intro (& suggestions thread.
PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2012 1:10 pm 
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reverenddak wrote:
Vanguard wrote:
I'm keeping my Orc full-blooded, though. Players who want half-breeds can houserule it. I'll have the 0-level professions up in the thread by the end of the weekend.

Maybe I'll try my hand at a Bard, as well. I was always a big fan of them.

But I'm definitely putting together a Lich for my own amusement.


I think you should submit a Half-orc with some of those properties, it'd rule. But I plan to leave the voting to the community.

But, man, an issue dedicated to Monstrous Classes would be AWESOME.

So, for this first (this could be a series!) I'd like this first New Class Challenge to be "Classic" classes. It'll help keep focused.


I'll most likely hold out for the Monstrous Classes issue then.

Unless I re-skinned my Orc as a Barbarian, the only other class I can see being interested in making is a Bard at the moment.

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 Post subject: Re: Crawl! New Class Challenge! Intro (& suggestions thread.
PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2012 1:33 pm 
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I'm gonna go out on a limb here and suggest:


Archeologist. (Or, if you like, Explorer.)

This is a standard character from NetHack and I think he'd be well suited to DCC's hack-like theme and setting. As a point of reference, think Indiana Jones. "With a torch, some parchment and charcoal for mapping, and a trusty bullwhip, the archeologist/explorer goes to the remotest places, from the darkest depths to the highest peaks in search of rare treasures, artifacts, knowledge, or simply the pure thrill of being the first to make contact with an obscure tribe in the jungle. That is, if they don't end up sacrificed to dark tentacled gods or thrown in the cannibal's pot..." Sort of a combination of sage and thief, maybe a way to use Personality to generate helpful rumors / secrets.

Tinker. (Gnome, maybe?)

I think the best example is Data from The Goonies (though he's not a gnome). "The tinker is a cobbler or a cooper who simply can't stop inventing, refining, creating new contraptions. They can harness steam power and, sometimes, the wild and dangerous power of the lightning. Their machines are usually helpful in nature, but sometimes dangerous, even more so than the magical forces harnessed by wizards..." For those who want to steampunk-up their campaign some with airships and Ye Olde Blasterguns.

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2: Detect Invisible, Levitate (extremely difficult, d14), Mirror Image (20% chance to raise/lower luck by 1d3 points).
Equip: Ring of the Sand Djinn: +2 AC/saves, Invisibility for 1min/spellburn point, or unmake for great, unknown effect. Padded Armor, Longsword, Longbow, quiver w/20 steel-tipped arrows, 10 silver-tipped arrows, backpack, spellbook, quill and ink, sturdy parchment (10 sheets), 5 days rations, high leather boots, belt w/ belt pouch, gray robe, dark gray hooded cloak. Also carries 3 small mechanical toys: wind-up mouse, wooden puzzle cube, small jewelry box that plays a little tune.


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 Post subject: Re: Crawl! New Class Challenge! Intro (& suggestions thread.
PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2012 1:37 pm 
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What is ACKS??

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 Post subject: Re: Crawl! New Class Challenge! Intro (& suggestions thread.
PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2012 1:45 pm 
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reverenddak wrote:

Stage Three: Class creation challenge. Once the 5 classes are picked, it'll be on the community to create these classes. Individual threads will be made where people can post their version of the class.



My only worry is that all different class versions will cross-pollinate each others and we might end up with very "streamlined" classes having lost most of their edges and quirks. But edges and quirks are what make this game great!

I would simply add that caveat: each version is a "definitive" submission, no excessive tinkering allowed (but each forumer can post more than one).

Does it make sense ?

P.S. ACKS is Adventurer Conqueror king System, one of many new OSR (Old-School Renaissance) RPG from Autarch, I would call it in-between D&D and AD&D in terms of complexity and style.


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 Post subject: Re: Crawl! New Class Challenge! Intro (& suggestions thread.
PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2012 1:48 pm 
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Blood Axe wrote:
What is ACKS??


Adventurer, Conqueror, King System. It's a great rpg derived from B/X that really takes the approach to heart that eventually characters move on from dungeoneering to establish their own domains and become movers and shakers (managing their own thieves guild, or becoming a king, etc.). A very different beast than DCC, but still a good un'.

Colin


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 Post subject: Re: Crawl! New Class Challenge! Intro (& suggestions thread.
PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2012 2:05 pm 
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So is this the brainstorm thread? I'm a bit unclear on that. If so:

Gnome. The 15 cm tall, pointy hat, animal friend version (see Wil Huygen).


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 Post subject: Re: Crawl! New Class Challenge! Intro (& suggestions thread.
PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2012 2:28 pm 
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sheriffharry wrote:
My only worry is that all different class versions will cross-pollinate each others and we might end up with very "streamlined" classes having lost most of their edges and quirks. But edges and quirks are what make this game great!

I would simply add that caveat: each version is a "definitive" submission, no excessive tinkering allowed (but each forumer can post more than one).

Does it make sense ?


I think so... I'd like to see how people can take a class like a Bard & Barbarian, and really differentiate them from Warriors & Thieves. I'd like to see a Gnome & Half-Orc. I think that's the "challenge". It's too easy to make a class that's a "bit" of Warrior, by using MDoA and a bit of "Thief" by co-opting a their skill charts. But I think this is an opportunity to try out a new class specific sub-system, especially with all those funky dice. It really shows how solid and flexible the core classes are.

What I worry most about is Power Creep. Almost all new spells & classes, that have been posted, have shown a bit of this. I don't want what I saw in 4e, where Warlords & Avengers were better than Warriors & Clerics.

I think some interesting things can be done with Bards, Gnomes & Half-orcs (as I've mentioned, I really like the Vanguard's Orc, and it could be toned down a bit an be a really interesting Half-orc.)

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(Dungeon) Master In Chief of Crawl! fanzine. - http://www.crawlfanzine.com/

"[...] there is no doubt that Dungeons and Dragons and its imitators are right out of the pit of hell." - William Schnoebelen, Straight talk on Dungeons & Dragons


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 Post subject: Re: Crawl! New Class Challenge! Intro (& suggestions thread.
PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2012 2:47 pm 
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bitflipr wrote:
So is this the brainstorm thread? I'm a bit unclear on that. If so:

Gnome. The 15 cm tall, pointy hat, animal friend version (see Wil Huygen).


Heh, not yet. But this is what I'm looking for.

I'll start a new thread. I want to address any concerns about the contest/challenge format, and stuff like that first. I want everyone involved in the process in some way. And give people a heads up. There have been several versions of Barbarians & Rangers, and I can only print one. But I want to know what people are interested in, in general.Considering all the types of possible campaign possibilities and stuff, I think it helps. If there is one thing I'm good at, it's keeping focused. So I want to focus on "Classic" Classes for this contest. I have my AD&D PHB right next to me. Hint.

Basically I'm going to print an Issue that features "More Classes" for DCC RPG, and I want a fun way to figure out which classes, and a fun way to figure out how to make them cool. I don't see a problem with writers joining forces either. But you'd be surprised what kinds of ideas can come out of challenge like this.

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(Dungeon) Master In Chief of Crawl! fanzine. - http://www.crawlfanzine.com/

"[...] there is no doubt that Dungeons and Dragons and its imitators are right out of the pit of hell." - William Schnoebelen, Straight talk on Dungeons & Dragons


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 Post subject: Re: Crawl! New Class Challenge! Intro (& suggestions thread.
PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2012 2:52 pm 
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I didn't think my Orc was TOO powerful. He is strong, but only if he's angry, and that's how it should be.

I think the trick is to pick one of the core classes and use it as a model. In general, every class has 2-3 abilities. I haven't done any work on the Bard yet, but he would be most obviously based on the Thief. Maybe a list of "Bard" skills relating to his performance, with the maximums having the same potency of magic? That's just a rough idea. Once I sit down and map progressions and abilities, I'm sure it will change.

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 Post subject: Re: Crawl! New Class Challenge! Intro (& suggestions thread.
PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2012 2:57 pm 
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I will try my hand at and would also be interested in other people's takes on bards, paladins, gnomes, rangers and maybe a monk/mystic from the PHB/RC.

Possibly druids and illusionists, though they are bit too close to the cleric and wizard classes for me.


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 Post subject: Re: Crawl! New Class Challenge! Intro (& suggestions thread.
PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2012 3:46 pm 
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I already have a rough sketch done of the Bard. Nothing is solid, but the outline is done.

I forgot about the Monk, another personal favorite. Hmmm. . .

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 Post subject: Re: Crawl! New Class Challenge! Intro (& suggestions thread.
PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2012 5:05 pm 
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I think a Monk/Mystic would be cool too; it's one of the few classes not easily represented by the existing classes, imo.

While a lot of folks hate the concept, I'd also like to see a decent DCC-spun take on a Psionicist (and Psionic Powers too), ideal for a Weird Fantasy or Planetary Romance-inspired DCC game.


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 Post subject: Re: Crawl! New Class Challenge! Intro (& suggestions thread.
PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2012 5:13 pm 
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I agree with the monk and the psionicist. Like it or not, there are a lot of psionics in Appendix N.

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Cathbad the Meek (herbalist Wizard 1): AC 9; 4 hp; S 7, A 7, St 10, P 17, I 13, L 8; Neutral; Club, herbs, 50' rope, 50 cp; -1 to melee attack rolls. Hideous scar.


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 Post subject: Re: Crawl! New Class Challenge! Intro (& suggestions thread.
PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2012 5:44 pm 
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What if instead of making a Lich, I made a Necromancer? I know that it could fall under the umbrella of a Wizard/Cleric, but I think there is/should be a distinct flavor to them. I don't think my version would even have spells, but would be based around sacrifices and negative envy instead.

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 Post subject: Re: Crawl! New Class Challenge! Intro (& suggestions thread.
PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2012 7:00 pm 
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Oh psionics for sure. Both appendix N and classic. I'd also say bard is one I'm always interested in.


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 Post subject: Re: Crawl! New Class Challenge! Intro (& suggestions thread.
PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2012 8:51 pm 
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Love the idea of a monk and psioncist!


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 Post subject: Re: Crawl! New Class Challenge! Intro (& suggestions thread.
PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2012 11:58 pm 
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In the spirit of Appendix N, there should also be some kind of very powerful "magic-user" almost always succumbing to madness and corruption. Something like a NECROMANCER or a DEMONOLOGIST. But playable. Can it be done? I doubt it.

;)


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 Post subject: Re: Crawl! New Class Challenge! Intro (& suggestions thread.
PostPosted: Sat Jul 14, 2012 5:39 am 
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sheriffharry wrote:
In the spirit of Appendix N, there should also be some kind of very powerful "magic-user" almost always succumbing to madness and corruption. Something like a NECROMANCER or a DEMONOLOGIST. But playable. Can it be done? I doubt it.

;)


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