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 Post subject: Necromancer: Wizard or Cleric?
PostPosted: Wed Jun 27, 2012 10:26 am 
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I have a player interested in playing a Necromancer type of character. I have a hard time recommending between the Wizard and Cleric.

On one hand, the Cleric receives the Animate Dead spell which seems clear to me to be very necromancer-like.

On the other hand, the Wizard gets a title Necromancer (Chaotic alignment at level 5) and their spell Arcane Affinity seems to point to a Necromancer-like specialization.

It seems that either could be played for that control undead type of experience. I'm curious what others thoughts on this are.


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 Post subject: Re: Necromancer: Wizard or Cleric?
PostPosted: Wed Jun 27, 2012 10:32 am 
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Either.

But, if you are using a wizard, include a patron that animates the dead with cool Invoke Patron results and patron spells.

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SoBH pbp:

Chalmers of Yngvi (squire): Slain by un-dead...probably eaten to the bones; Who will recover his longsword, steel helmet, 10-foot pole, and 30 cp? "Yngvi is a louse!"
Jack Nimble (radish farmer): Slain. Still has backpack, 31 cp, to be taken when possible.
Cathbad the Meek (herbalist): AC 9; 4 hp; S 7, A 7, St 11, P 17, I 13, L 8; Neutral; Club, herbs, 50' rope, 50 cp; -1 to melee attack rolls.
Sexton Abraham (grave digger): Dead and burning, Shovel, trowel, 20 cp on corpse; I assume that the candle burned up good.


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 Post subject: Re: Necromancer: Wizard or Cleric?
PostPosted: Wed Jun 27, 2012 3:41 pm 
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Raven_Crowking wrote:
Either.

But, if you are using a wizard, include a patron that animates the dead with cool Invoke Patron results and patron spells.

Exactly what I was thinking before I got halfway through the OP. 8)

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Gnome Boy (a.k.a. "Jon") • DCC play-tester @ DDC 35, Feb 2011. • Beta DL 2111, 7:00 AM PT, 8 June 11.
Playing RPGs since 1977 • Quasi-occasional member of the Legion of 8th-Level Fighters - Holds the power to play gnomes at will!
Here Be DCC Monsters...

Pbp Secret of Bone Hill characters:
Flavia, WAR, Beekeeper, L, Str 10, Agi 10, Stm 7, Per 10, Int 12, Lck 7, AC 10 hp 5, staff, jar of honey, 10-ft pole, 1 pc chalk, 50' rope, 2 torches (1 lit)
Hector, DWARF Apothecarist, L, Str 5, Agi 11, Stm 12, Per 10, Int 6, Lck 10, AC 10, hp 11, sword, shield, cudgel, steel vial, chest, flint & steel, empty flask, lg sack
Chendris, WIZ, Alchemist, N, Str 11, Agi 9, Stm 12, Per 15, Int 13, Lck 15, AC 10, hp 3, staff, empty flask, 50' rope, 2 candles, lg sack, oil (1 flsk), 1 torch, snakeskin tome; speaks gnoll
Darrow, CLR, Hunter, N, Str 11, Agi 12, Stm 8, Per 16, Int 7, Lck 12, AC 10 hp 5, short bow, 6 arrow, 10-ft pole, deer pelt, torch (lit)


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 Post subject: Re: Necromancer: Wizard or Cleric?
PostPosted: Wed Jun 27, 2012 7:11 pm 
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You could also allow a Wizard desiring to be a necromancer to learn the animate dead spell, as the book already covers a few instances where there is spell overlap (see detect magic) - and if you want it to be a different level of spell, just apply a flat modifier to the Wizard's spell check for that spell so that the numbers balance out properly (example: if you want the Wizard to get it as a spell of one level higher than the Cleric has it as, just have the Wizard roll with a -2 to his spell check.)


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 Post subject: Re: Necromancer: Wizard or Cleric?
PostPosted: Wed Jun 27, 2012 7:34 pm 
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TheNobleDrake wrote:
You could also allow a Wizard desiring to be a necromancer to learn the animate dead spell, as the book already covers a few instances where there is spell overlap (see detect magic) - and if you want it to be a different level of spell, just apply a flat modifier to the Wizard's spell check for that spell so that the numbers balance out properly (example: if you want the Wizard to get it as a spell of one level higher than the Cleric has it as, just have the Wizard roll with a -2 to his spell check.)


Sure...but you can also allow this as a patron spell....and, because a patron spell, without the -2.

"Well, I had to sell my soul to Orcus to raise armies of the dead, but, until someone comes along with a chainsaw hand and a boomstick, I'm golden!"

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SoBH pbp:

Chalmers of Yngvi (squire): Slain by un-dead...probably eaten to the bones; Who will recover his longsword, steel helmet, 10-foot pole, and 30 cp? "Yngvi is a louse!"
Jack Nimble (radish farmer): Slain. Still has backpack, 31 cp, to be taken when possible.
Cathbad the Meek (herbalist): AC 9; 4 hp; S 7, A 7, St 11, P 17, I 13, L 8; Neutral; Club, herbs, 50' rope, 50 cp; -1 to melee attack rolls.
Sexton Abraham (grave digger): Dead and burning, Shovel, trowel, 20 cp on corpse; I assume that the candle burned up good.


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 Post subject: Re: Necromancer: Wizard or Cleric?
PostPosted: Thu Jun 28, 2012 6:11 am 
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I find it interesting that the line between wizard and cleric is so blurred in the DCC RPG. (And with Appendix N literature, actually.) Both classes deal with patron or god beings to obtain their powers. Very similar. I don't see any reason why wizards couldn't heal, for example, and I'm certain if one looks at the literature there will be examples of this.

Necromancy is sort of the opposite of healing, except that the character controls death instead of controlling life. I see no reason why either cleric or wizard couldn't attempt this.

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 Post subject: Re: Necromancer: Wizard or Cleric?
PostPosted: Thu Jun 28, 2012 2:34 pm 
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finarvyn wrote:
Necromancy is sort of the opposite of healing, except that the character controls death instead of controlling life. I see no reason why either cleric or wizard couldn't attempt this.

One could also say that healing is what controls death, by holding it at arm's length.

Necromancers then control un-death (to use the phrasing adopted in the rulebook) -- and that may well be off the spectrum of the life/death concept. Un-death/un-dead could be looked at as aberrations or parodies of life, something wholly other, alien, perhaps an alternate reality from our own...

Just spitballing there...

_________________
Gnome Boy (a.k.a. "Jon") • DCC play-tester @ DDC 35, Feb 2011. • Beta DL 2111, 7:00 AM PT, 8 June 11.
Playing RPGs since 1977 • Quasi-occasional member of the Legion of 8th-Level Fighters - Holds the power to play gnomes at will!
Here Be DCC Monsters...

Pbp Secret of Bone Hill characters:
Flavia, WAR, Beekeeper, L, Str 10, Agi 10, Stm 7, Per 10, Int 12, Lck 7, AC 10 hp 5, staff, jar of honey, 10-ft pole, 1 pc chalk, 50' rope, 2 torches (1 lit)
Hector, DWARF Apothecarist, L, Str 5, Agi 11, Stm 12, Per 10, Int 6, Lck 10, AC 10, hp 11, sword, shield, cudgel, steel vial, chest, flint & steel, empty flask, lg sack
Chendris, WIZ, Alchemist, N, Str 11, Agi 9, Stm 12, Per 15, Int 13, Lck 15, AC 10, hp 3, staff, empty flask, 50' rope, 2 candles, lg sack, oil (1 flsk), 1 torch, snakeskin tome; speaks gnoll
Darrow, CLR, Hunter, N, Str 11, Agi 12, Stm 8, Per 16, Int 7, Lck 12, AC 10 hp 5, short bow, 6 arrow, 10-ft pole, deer pelt, torch (lit)


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 Post subject: Re: Necromancer: Wizard or Cleric?
PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2012 2:35 pm 
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I second the Wizard with a Patron idea. I'm in the middle of toying with a Lich class which will be a prototype for a Necromancer.

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 Post subject: Re: Necromancer: Wizard or Cleric?
PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2012 3:17 pm 
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One example from appendix N literature would be REH's Xaltotun from 'The Hour of the Dragon'. He would nicely fit the undead necromancer, a parody of life that people have mentioned above.

The line is easily blurred between the spells of a cleric and a wizard.
+1 for the suggestions of a wizard with a patron.


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 Post subject: Re: Necromancer: Wizard or Cleric?
PostPosted: Sat Jul 14, 2012 7:20 am 
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Heck, Gandalf! He lays on hands. That being said, he isn't actually a wizard . . . .

So maybe not the best example. But he claims to be a wizard and he does heal people.


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 Post subject: Re: Necromancer: Wizard or Cleric?
PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2012 10:52 pm 
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I just noticed today that the Charm person spell can apply to undead as well. I guess this gives +1 to the Wizard.


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