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 Post subject: Re: 2012: Transylvanian Adventures & The Transylvanian Grimo
PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2012 10:51 pm 
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Tight-Lipped Warlock

Joined: Fri Jan 28, 2011 2:52 pm
Posts: 1084
Wow. Marketing blitz is on FY-AH tonight.

I'm working on a blog post for next week addressing the question of whether or not Transylvanian Adventures makes me a racist. Save vs. Fireball.

Also, I noticed that the Survivor was NOT the last class I had to cover. That there is indeed one more left. Any guesses which one it is?

(HINT: He's NOT a coupon!)


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 Post subject: Re: 2012: Transylvanian Adventures & The Transylvanian Grimo
PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2012 7:42 am 
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The Redeemable, of course :)

Also, I love the name of the Survivor - reminds me of the Character Type in All Flesh Must Be Eaten - the type of person who has the best chance of surviving the zombie apocalypse.

Speaking of which, aside from Mina, what other horror fiction characters could be Survivors?

I'm thinking the "virgin girl" from teen slasher flicks who (nearly) always survives, Laurie Strode from the Halloween movies, Ash from Evil Dead/Army of Darkness (maybe stretching it?). People who have no real skills or advantages and a mundane background, but dang it all if they don't survive just about everything that's thrown at them, and maybe even get to stick it to the big bad evil guy at the end!


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 Post subject: Re: 2012: Transylvanian Adventures & The Transylvanian Grimo
PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2012 8:30 am 
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smathis wrote:
I'm working on a blog post for next week addressing the question of whether or not Transylvanian Adventures makes me a racist. Save vs. Fireball.


No more so than Oriental Adventures, Hamunaptra, or The Glory of Rome made the people writing them racists.

A setting is a setting, and it includes whatever elements are appropriate to that setting. The world meets in Shanthopal, and some of those from the West fear the exotic perils of the East. And vice versa. And North and South. But, unless you are making the setting such that X or Y is inherently superior along racial lines, you are not being racist. Nor does acknowledging and playing with the sexual stereotypes of the Hammer films make you a sexist.

Likewise, saying that something is exotic to a setting is a reality in a setting where pre-modern travel times exist. You simply cannot treat the source material correctly without addressing these issues.

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 Post subject: Re: 2012: Transylvanian Adventures & The Transylvanian Grimo
PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2012 10:58 am 
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Tight-Lipped Warlock

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Posts: 1084
grald_the_hunter wrote:
The Redeemable, of course :)

Also, I love the name of the Survivor - reminds me of the Character Type in All Flesh Must Be Eaten - the type of person who has the best chance of surviving the zombie apocalypse.

Speaking of which, aside from Mina, what other horror fiction characters could be Survivors?

I'm thinking the "virgin girl" from teen slasher flicks who (nearly) always survives, Laurie Strode from the Halloween movies, Ash from Evil Dead/Army of Darkness (maybe stretching it?). People who have no real skills or advantages and a mundane background, but dang it all if they don't survive just about everything that's thrown at them, and maybe even get to stick it to the big bad evil guy at the end!


You guessed it! The good ol' swashbuckling Redeemable will be showing up middle of next week. I'm not going to know what to put on the blog after he flies out to the window on a swinging chandelier.

The Survivor is kind of like the person that already survived something. The Valiant fits the mold of the typical horror protagonist.

With that in mind, The Valiant fits Laurie Strode in the first Halloween. While the Survivor fits her in H20. Likewise Ripley from Alien fits the idea of the Survivor, especially starting with Aliens on. Ash in Army of Darkness is without a doubt a Survivor. Evil Dead would've been more like his personal 0-Level funnel.

There's some fertile ground for cross-upgrading a Valiant and a Survivor, no doubt. The genre definitely supports taking one and morphing it towards the other.


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 Post subject: Re: 2012: Transylvanian Adventures & The Transylvanian Grimo
PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2012 11:08 am 
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Tight-Lipped Warlock

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Raven_Crowking wrote:
A setting is a setting, and it includes whatever elements are appropriate to that setting. The world meets in Shanthopal, and some of those from the West fear the exotic perils of the East. And vice versa. And North and South. But, unless you are making the setting such that X or Y is inherently superior along racial lines, you are not being racist. Nor does acknowledging and playing with the sexual stereotypes of the Hammer films make you a sexist.

Likewise, saying that something is exotic to a setting is a reality in a setting where pre-modern travel times exist. You simply cannot treat the source material correctly without addressing these issues.


This is sort of where I landed on the subject. TA/TG treats the inhabitants of Transylvania with a great deal more respect than most of the books and movies that inspired it. The villagers aren't clueless, superstitious yokels. They are vitally important to the party's mission. The first step in any successful adventure is finding out what the villagers know.

TA/TG assumes that the party is composed primarily of Western Europeans (for the most part). But there's no requirement that this be so. A character can be of any nationality or religious affiliation. TA/TG assumes a default because of the source material upon which it is based but does not force that default on a group in any way.

It could be used for Tsui Hark's Vampire Hunters Do Spring Break in Kronstadt as easily as it could be a throwback to the old Hammer movies or even a game featuring strictly Transylvanian scholars unlocking the darkest mysteries of the Carpathians.

But there are some that are bothered by the characterization of Transylvania as home to vampires. So the blogpost is for them. Perhaps it allays some concerns. I'd rather face this thing head on than avoid the issue out of cowardice.


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 Post subject: Re: 2012: Transylvanian Adventures & The Transylvanian Grimo
PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2012 4:43 pm 
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Far-Sighted Wanderer

Joined: Sat May 26, 2012 10:50 am
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smathis wrote:

The Survivor is kind of like the person that already survived something. The Valiant fits the mold of the typical horror protagonist.

. . .

There's some fertile ground for cross-upgrading a Valiant and a Survivor, no doubt. The genre definitely supports taking one and morphing it towards the other.


Hm, so how does the Valiant remain . . . well, Valiant? Seems the Valiant would naturally become a Survivor if he survived one encounter with evil. Is the Valiant more luck-driven and the Survivor more skill-driven?


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 Post subject: Re: 2012: Transylvanian Adventures & The Transylvanian Grimo
PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2012 5:21 pm 
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Tight-Lipped Warlock

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grald_the_hunter wrote:
smathis wrote:

The Survivor is kind of like the person that already survived something. The Valiant fits the mold of the typical horror protagonist.

. . .

There's some fertile ground for cross-upgrading a Valiant and a Survivor, no doubt. The genre definitely supports taking one and morphing it towards the other.


Hm, so how does the Valiant remain . . . well, Valiant? Seems the Valiant would naturally become a Survivor if he survived one encounter with evil. Is the Valiant more luck-driven and the Survivor more skill-driven?


Great question. The Valiant is more luck driven. The Survivor is more combat driven. Neither of them have much going in the skill department.

I should probably do another blog on the Valiant in the new format. The last post on them was less than informative.

As they advance, the Valiant becomes more of a hero. The Survivor becomes more grim. Like Ripley in Aliens.


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 Post subject: Re: 2012: Transylvanian Adventures & The Transylvanian Grimo
PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2012 3:15 am 
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Raven_Crowking wrote:
No more so than Oriental Adventures, Hamunaptra, or The Glory of Rome made the people writing them racists.


...which they've been accused of. At the very least, Oriental Adventures has drawn a fair amount of criticism for its depictions of "fantasy Asia," particularly over the word "Oriental" which has negative connotations.

Raven_Crowking wrote:
A setting is a setting, and it includes whatever elements are appropriate to that setting. The world meets in Shanthopal, and some of those from the West fear the exotic perils of the East. And vice versa. And North and South. But, unless you are making the setting such that X or Y is inherently superior along racial lines, you are not being racist. Nor does acknowledging and playing with the sexual stereotypes of the Hammer films make you a sexist.


And this is pretty much the only possible defense against those accusations. As long as a setting makes its various peoples not wholly caricaturized versions of real-world ethnicities, then there's a fine argument for building from elements of reality without accepting those stereotypes as true. The problem comes from saying "Well, that's just the way the genre does it!" and not accepting responsibility for regurgitating those tropes without addressing them. An author's note or apologia goes a long way toward keeping the good will of the people.

A different way of saying it is this: Just because H.P. Lovecraft wrote horror stories that were thinly veiled allegories against racial mixing, it doesn't make it okay for modern authors to do the same thing and claim no responsibility because "that's what Lovecraft did." If a modern author writes a Lovecraftian tale, he typically uses the same sense of cosmic horror without explicitly making it a metaphor for the same things. (A great example is Charles Stross' short story "A Colder War," which is a Mythos tale about nuclear proliferation.)

As long as Transylvanian Adventures addresses these topics instead of just ignoring them, I think it'll be a fine addition to the system.

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 Post subject: Re: 2012: Transylvanian Adventures & The Transylvanian Grimo
PostPosted: Mon Jun 18, 2012 10:18 am 
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Tight-Lipped Warlock

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blackwingedheaven wrote:
As long as a setting makes its various peoples not wholly caricaturized versions of real-world ethnicities, then there's a fine argument for building from elements of reality without accepting those stereotypes as true. The problem comes from saying "Well, that's just the way the genre does it!" and not accepting responsibility for regurgitating those tropes without addressing them. An author's note or apologia goes a long way toward keeping the good will of the people.

...

As long as Transylvanian Adventures addresses these topics instead of just ignoring them, I think it'll be a fine addition to the system.


Thanks, BWH. TA/TG has both an "apologia" which may be expanding and will feature a section on how to play with the tropes of Gothic Horror and the Hammer films in order to give groups the ability to turn them on their heads. Something like the Gypsy Polymath and Romanian Hunter go out to save the clueless English researcher from getting himself killed.

And TA/TG is respectful of Transylvanian history and culture (insofar as it can be used in the context of such an outlandish genre). I've been mindful of these issues while writing TA/TG and have tried to be as respectful as possible without watering down the game into politically-correct drivel. I've asked myself two questions during writing this game:

1) Is it Hammer?
2) Is it awesome?

If any element fails either of those questions, I don't bother. It's why TA/TG doesn't feature some pseudo-church or some mighty Vampire Lord not named Dracula who we all really know is actually Dracula. Because neither of those things passed the Hammer-Awesome test.


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 Post subject: Re: 2012: Transylvanian Adventures & The Transylvanian Grimo
PostPosted: Mon Jun 18, 2012 11:54 am 
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Just added some notes on a recent playtest.

We've actually had a couple between this post and the previous playtest post. I'd just been too busy to type them up. In any case, it gives a good "state of affairs" on TA/TG.


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 Post subject: Re: 2012: Transylvanian Adventures & The Transylvanian Grimo
PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2012 9:00 pm 
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Having a bit of a rough week. Family had the stomach flu. Redeemable will be up tomorrow or Friday. Sorry for the delay.


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 Post subject: Re: 2012: Transylvanian Adventures & The Transylvanian Grimo
PostPosted: Thu Jun 21, 2012 9:26 pm 
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Hey-yo howdy! Feeling better today and got the Redeemable up on the blog. I'm sad. What am I going to write about now?

I guess I'll just have to finish this **** book.

The Redeemable has been a group favorite in play. Especially after the players figured out what to do with him. True story time...

In one playtest, the Redeemable shows up and uses a Mighty Deed to jump into combat unload a flintlock in each hand and then proceeds to use the empty flintlocks to defend against enemy attacks and club those guys over the head. It was like Captain Kronos met John Woo. All the while, the Exotic was using a musket like a staff and doing flips over that thing and using it to launch off dropkicks like Mani in Brotherhood of the Wolf. Actual play. Actual fun.

It was like Peter Cushing in a Tsui Hark movie with Black Sabbath and White Zombie doing the soundtrack. One of those moments that made all this effort worthwhile.

Oh and the Velociraptors were from Stonehell Dungeon. I'm running the party through Stonehell. Which I'm appropriately renaming Steinholle. And there's Velociraptors in Area 0. What, you say? You don't remember any Velociraptors at the entrance of Stonehell Dungeon? That's because there weren't any.

That's right, Michael Curtis. I added VELOCIRAPTORS to your dungeon. Because I was looking at this awesome dungeon and when I asked myself how it could be anymore awesome I said: "Velociraptors!"

And next session I'm adding a Zombie T-Rex. Just because I want to see the Hunter take it down with her Swordcane-Parasol.

It all ties into Count Dracula. The players would back me up on this.

:twisted:


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 Post subject: Re: 2012: Transylvanian Adventures & The Transylvanian Grimo
PostPosted: Thu Jun 21, 2012 10:53 pm 
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Thank You for an awesome another awesome character class!
The redeemable fits the current Soild Snake of Metal Gear Solid PERFECTLY.

An in genre suggestion
I know the "Mad Scientist" who makes steam punk gadgets may be normally a villainous archetype, but as Even the original Dracula novel shows the Technologically adept hero is a distinct profession that not only sets them apart from the technologically illiterate, but lets them stand head-and-shoulders in advantages over villains who refuse to change with the times.

I'm not just talking about the Doctor Sewards and Doc Browns (Back To The Future)...

No, the proposed "Gadgeteer" class is to technology what Merlin is to Magic. We are talking about The John Mclanes (Die Hard), The Tony Starks and most fearsome of them all, The Macguyvers. Give them a bag of fertilizer, 5 minutes and a box of scraps, and these warriors can make nitroglycerin roasted mincemeat out of a pack of werewolves with a time delayed fuse bomb.

Their ability to INSTANTLY improvise and adapt to situations based on resources is NOT to be trifled with. Their "spot object" skill should be on par with the hunters (finding ingredients for the next gadget, you see), they have nerves of steel to be brave (and CRAZY) enough to use their gadgets (John Mclanes Bungee jumping off a high rise with a fire hose), and dead-eyed accuracy when precision is needed (How much chloroform did I put in that sleep bomb again?)

And of course their repair skills would be a veritable godsend when you need that telegraph for reinforcements in the heart of a snowstorm invasion of The Fair Folk, finding a substitute for that broken cart wheel so that carriage of medicine gets to the children on time....

.... Not to mention, rather gruesomely but necessarily, act as an emergency barber surgeon, who amputates rotten limbs (and makes steam punk replacements), sews ripped open bellies back together with wire (not saying it wouldn't hurt like a b!tch!!) and in true Macguyver fashion, restart (defilberate) a stopped heart by finding a thunderstorm, making a lightning rod out of a churchyard cold iron fence post, place rod in friend's armpit and friend on top of Jill, and shout "Clear" as everyone runs for cover as his friend's heart is re-started.

Making emergency peg legs out of broken off table legs (think Grindhouse: Planet Terror) shoved into the stump of a freshly dismembered friend so he can run away from that flesh golem is also something that only a gadgeteer can come up with.

There you have it, the Gadgeteer, or as I would like to call him/her The Macguyver, the wild card in an age where industry and science wakes up to its full power and glory.

Also, what sort of character class would Captain Steve Rogers of The Avengers fit into?


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 Post subject: Re: 2012: Transylvanian Adventures & The Transylvanian Grimo
PostPosted: Thu Jun 21, 2012 11:19 pm 
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Liu Jen Hao wrote:
Thank You for an awesome another awesome character class!
The redeemable fits the current Soild Snake of Metal Gear Solid PERFECTLY.


Hi Liu Jen Hao. Thanks again for the feedback. I'm happy to hear that the Redeemable can be used to model Solid Snake. Add in cross-upgrading and TA/TG classes could wind up being very versatile.

Liu Jen Hao wrote:
An in genre suggestion
I know the "Mad Scientist" who makes steam punk gadgets may be normally a villainous archetype, but as Even the original Dracula novel shows the Technologically adept hero is a distinct profession that not only sets them apart from the technologically illiterate, but lets them stand head-and-shoulders in advantages over villains who refuse to change with the times.


The Mad Scientist is already part of the Theorist. I'm working out the details for how "Mad Science spells" would work. They aren't spells per se. But a Mad Science Theorist would use spell slots to acquire them the same way a Wizard would use Spell slots to learn Magic Missile. It was the only way I could see to do it without going pear-shaped with the mechanics. Mad Science will function differently from any other spellcasting in DCC. But it will share roots with other types of Spells a Theorist can use -- like Alchemy, Rituals and more traditional spellcasting.

A player can mix and match to her heart's content. Or focus exclusively on one type of spellcasting.

And there you have the bones of what will appear in The Transylvanian Grimoire.

Liu Jen Hao wrote:
No, the proposed "Gadgeteer" class is to technology what Merlin is to Magic. We are talking about The John Mclanes (Die Hard), The Tony Starks and most fearsome of them all, The Macguyvers. Give them a bag of fertilizer, 5 minutes and a box of scraps, and these warriors can make nitroglycerin roasted mincemeat out of a pack of werewolves with a time delayed fuse bomb.


The Hunter has a very awesome and useful MacGuyver ability. I would probably cast John McLane as a Hunter. MacGuyver a cross-between Theorist and Hunter. And Tony Stark would be a straight-up Theorist. All Mad Science all the time.

Liu Jen Hao wrote:
Their ability to INSTANTLY improvise and adapt to situations based on resources is NOT to be trifled with. Their "spot object" skill should be on par with the hunters (finding ingredients for the next gadget, you see), they have nerves of steel to be brave (and CRAZY) enough to use their gadgets (John Mclanes Bungee jumping off a high rise with a fire hose), and dead-eyed accuracy when precision is needed (How much chloroform did I put in that sleep bomb again?)


This is 100% the Hunter. From spotting objects better than other classes. To the MacGuyver thing. 100% the Hunter. You can focus a Hunter in this direction with upgrades. Or focus on other abilities of the Hunter to make him more Captain Kronos or Solomon Kane.

Liu Jen Hao wrote:
There you have it, the Gadgeteer, or as I would like to call him/her The Macguyver, the wild card in an age where industry and science wakes up to its full power and glory.


I'd recommend taking a Theorist and then buying cross-upgrades from the Hunter and Redeemable. Would be a perfect fit, IMO.

Liu Jen Hao wrote:
Also, what sort of character class would Captain Steve Rogers of The Avengers fit into?


The Valiant. Maybe cross-upgraded with a Charger and Hunter (for the shield).


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 Post subject: Re: 2012: Transylvanian Adventures & The Transylvanian Grimo
PostPosted: Thu Jun 21, 2012 11:19 pm 
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Double post! :shock:


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 Post subject: Re: 2012: Transylvanian Adventures & The Transylvanian Grimo
PostPosted: Sat Jun 23, 2012 1:27 am 
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Mad Science !

Dammit, I'm going to have to run something like the AD&D 1e module 'Catapult Run' with TA/TG for a pulpy steampunk Wacky Races thang... The Kontraptions of Doktor (Lich) Dastardly. It MUST be done!

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 Post subject: Re: 2012: Transylvanian Adventures & The Transylvanian Grimo
PostPosted: Sat Jun 23, 2012 2:53 am 
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Oh. By Guan Yu, Saint of Justice, what have I started?


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 Post subject: Re: 2012: Transylvanian Adventures & The Transylvanian Grimo
PostPosted: Sat Jun 23, 2012 8:48 am 
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geordie racer wrote:
Mad Science !

Dammit, I'm going to have to run something like the AD&D 1e module 'Catapult Run' with TA/TG for a pulpy steampunk Wacky Races thang... The Kontraptions of Doktor (Lich) Dastardly. It MUST be done!


:D

Go for it. Sounds awesome.


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 Post subject: Re: 2012: Transylvanian Adventures & The Transylvanian Grimo
PostPosted: Sun Jun 24, 2012 3:07 pm 
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smathis wrote:
I guess I'll just have to finish this **** book.


Yes, PLEASE DO.

I've got a PayPal payment with your name on it that keeps burning holes in my digital pockets.

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 Post subject: Re: 2012: Transylvanian Adventures & The Transylvanian Grimo
PostPosted: Sun Jun 24, 2012 7:53 pm 
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As far as what I'd like to see on the blog, I really like the posts about playtests, and I'd like to revisit some of the earlier character classes (prior to the class overhaul). The playtest posts have been pretty informative. I really want a feel for the characters people are making, not necessarily in the mechanics arena (although a little of that would be nice), but more their personalities, backgrounds, and goals. How does TA inspire them to make in-depth characters?

Also, let's get some updates as to the progress on the manuscripts. Which chapters are done, need editing, layout, art, &c.? And can we see a table of contents once it's finalized?

Not asking for too much or anything :D - I'm just pretty excited about seeing this in print. I've been watching a bunch of Hammer movies lately to get in the mood.


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 Post subject: Re: 2012: Transylvanian Adventures & The Transylvanian Grimo
PostPosted: Mon Jun 25, 2012 8:21 am 
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Ogrepuppy wrote:
smathis wrote:
I guess I'll just have to finish this **** book.


Yes, PLEASE DO.

I've got a PayPal payment with your name on it that keeps burning holes in my digital pockets.


Once I get the art expenses finalized and my wife starts working on the layout, I'll announce how much TA will cost. It will probably be less than most people think.


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 Post subject: Re: 2012: Transylvanian Adventures & The Transylvanian Grimo
PostPosted: Mon Jun 25, 2012 8:51 am 
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grald_the_hunter wrote:
As far as what I'd like to see on the blog, I really like the posts about playtests, and I'd like to revisit some of the earlier character classes (prior to the class overhaul).


I can revisit the Valiant and Exotic. They haven't changed much but might benefit from a write-up in the new style that I've been using.

grald_the_hunter wrote:
The playtest posts have been pretty informative. I really want a feel for the characters people are making, not necessarily in the mechanics arena (although a little of that would be nice), but more their personalities, backgrounds, and goals. How does TA inspire them to make in-depth characters?


Cool. I can revisit some of the playtests. Maybe give a play summary. We've been testing play thus far. So it isn't really a campaign. I'm leaning on others to try that out. The playtests can be a little weird. Like I'll want to test specific elements of play so we'll jump to those. I'm trying to break the rules. Not so much trying to sell product through playtest -- which is what a lot of companies do. Especially a very big one who prints an alliterative fantasy RPG with which all of us are familiar.

Those of you in the Austin area should be experiencing some TA/TG in the next couple of weeks. So sharpen your stakes and keep a crucifix handy!

grald_the_hunter wrote:
Also, let's get some updates as to the progress on the manuscripts. Which chapters are done, need editing, layout, art, &c.? And can we see a table of contents once it's finalized?


That's a fantastic idea. I can do progress reports on the blog. At this point, I'd wager on word count that TA is in the ballpark of 200 pages. With probably another 50 or so left to go. Progress reports would be good, though. Great idea, grald. Thanks.

I know the Table of Contents already. So I can blog that as well. An overview... then chapter by chapter with more detail? It's subject to change, of course. But I'm 90% certain that all the chapters that are currently slated for TA will still be in TA.

TG is hard to gauge because it still needs organizing. I think it will be easier to write than TA. But part of that is because a good portion of the content is stuff lifted from the original TA manuscript.

grald_the_hunter wrote:
Not asking for too much or anything :D - I'm just pretty excited about seeing this in print. I've been watching a bunch of Hammer movies lately to get in the mood.


Nice! Thanks for the suggestions. It keeps my marketing blitz from slowing to a crawl.


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 Post subject: Re: 2012: Transylvanian Adventures & The Transylvanian Grimo
PostPosted: Mon Jun 25, 2012 3:06 pm 
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smathis wrote:
It keeps my marketing blitz from slowing to a crawl.


I see what you did there. ;)


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 Post subject: Re: 2012: Transylvanian Adventures & The Transylvanian Grimo
PostPosted: Sat Jun 30, 2012 2:42 am 
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It would be safe to guess that Batman is an Exotic (Gong-Fu)/ Redeemable (Ninjutsu)/ Hunter (Detective), right?


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 Post subject: Re: 2012: Transylvanian Adventures & The Transylvanian Grimo
PostPosted: Sat Jun 30, 2012 8:02 am 
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Liu Jen Hao wrote:
It would be safe to guess that Batman is an Exotic (Gong-Fu)/ Redeemable (Ninjutsu)/ Hunter (Detective), right?


A hunter first. Cross-upgraded with an Exotic and either (or both) a Charger or Redeemable.

Worth noting that Batman would need to be 8th or 10th level to accomplish all these upgrades. And even then would be far more "street level" than he is in the comics or movies. But TATG could approximate a reasonable facsimile of that type of character.

The Hunter starts out with detective skills, MDoAs, and an approximation of Batman's utility belt. As Judge, I would be okay with a player subbing out the Hunter's signature weapon with the Exotic's Unarmed Fighting at first level. But I'd still consider it a cross-upgrade for purposes of future upgrades.

This would make the Kung-fu detective version Of Batman. To make the gadgeteer detective version you'd have to start out as a Theorist and then use cross-upgrades to fill out the rest.

The Theorist's potions, gadgets and steam works would do a decent job of mimicking Batman's utility belt and things like the Batmobile etc.

Interestingly enough, Theorist Batman could build a flesh golem or summon an infernal of sOme sort as a "Robin".


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