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 Post subject: Starting Cleric spells
PostPosted: Sun Jun 10, 2012 2:13 am 
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Deft-Handed Cutpurse
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How does a cleric determine his starting spells? I couldn't find any text about how he receives the 4 spells. Are they chosen randomly during character creation?


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 Post subject: Re: Starting Cleric spells
PostPosted: Sun Jun 10, 2012 12:49 pm 
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My method: Roll the spells randomly (the spell table listing each spell on page 128 happens to be numbered, so why not use that?), and as the Judge alter the resulting selection of spells so that all 4 spells fit within the established theme of the god worshiped by the cleric.

Example:

rolling a d12 the player gets 6, 3, 8 and 1.
that would mean Blessing, Detect Evil, Holy Sanctuary, and Protection from Evil.
The character has chosen to worship a god of health and harvest... and within that theme, detect evil doesn't really "vibe" quite that well. As the Judge, I would then replace Detect Evil with a more thematically appropriate option, Food of the Gods.


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 Post subject: Re: Starting Cleric spells
PostPosted: Sun Jun 10, 2012 1:14 pm 
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Depends on Judge. I would give four based on his god.

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 Post subject: Re: Starting Cleric spells
PostPosted: Sun Jun 10, 2012 7:20 pm 
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Mighty-Thewed Reaver
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At GaryCon earlier this year Harley just let me pick what I wanted. That works for me!


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 Post subject: Re: Starting Cleric spells
PostPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2012 8:50 am 
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TheNobleDrake wrote:
My method: Roll the spells randomly (the spell table listing each spell on page 128 happens to be numbered, so why not use that?).


Indeed, that's why the lists are numbered: random determination. :)

Colin


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 Post subject: Re: Starting Cleric spells
PostPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2012 12:16 pm 
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Deft-Handed Cutpurse
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Thanks for your advice. I let the player choose 2 and roll 2 randomnly. Are the gods listed in the DCC rulebook featured in any other publications?


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 Post subject: Re: Starting Cleric spells
PostPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2012 1:45 pm 
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Crimsontree wrote:
Thanks for your advice. I let the player choose 2 and roll 2 randomnly. Are the gods listed in the DCC rulebook featured in any other publications?


Information on them is scattered here and there throughout numerous modules.

Colin


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 Post subject: Re: Starting Cleric spells
PostPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2012 5:12 pm 
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Colin wrote:
Crimsontree wrote:
Thanks for your advice. I let the player choose 2 and roll 2 randomnly. Are the gods listed in the DCC rulebook featured in any other publications?


Information on them is scattered here and there throughout numerous modules.

Colin

And all in DCC 35 for classic DCC modules numbered 1 through upper-30-something...

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Gnome Boy (a.k.a. "Jon") • DCC play-tester @ DDC 35, Feb 2011. • Beta DL 2111, 7:00 AM PT, 8 June 11.
Playing RPGs since 1977 • Quasi-occasional member of the Legion of 8th-Level Fighters - Holds the power to play gnomes at will!

Here Be DCC Monsters...

General Yoros, Warrior, Str 13, Agl 8 (10), Stm 17, Per 13, Int 11, Lck 8; Law, HP 39, AC 17, R+2, F+4, W+2, band/shld, warhammer, longsword, longbow, pitchfork

Han Dee, (Weaver) Neutral Thief, Str 10, Agi 13, Stm 11, Per 11, Int 15, Lck 14, AC 13 (Leather), HP 25, Luck Die d6, Backstab 3, Sneak Silently 10, Hide In Shadows 9, Pick Pocket 10, Climb Sheer 10, Pick Lock 9, Find Trap 9, Disable Trap 9, Forge Doc 10, Disguise 3, Read Lang 5, Handle Poison 3, Cast Scroll d14+2, birth augur (Born under the loom) +1 to all skill checks (including thief skills), Banepicks (auto pick lock/disable trap, but lose 1d3 random ability loss, if a 3 then 1 pt is perm)


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 Post subject: Re: Starting Cleric spells
PostPosted: Sat Oct 27, 2012 9:16 pm 
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Far-Sighted Wanderer

Joined: Thu Aug 23, 2012 8:05 pm
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On page 110 the book talks about regaining spells for "divine magic after resting and praying to the cleric’s god." For me, I allow the cleric to choose 4 spells for the day at this time. The cleric can then pray for a different set of spells after the next rest and pray period or keep the same ones, the clerics choice.

One question I have is that "A wizard knows a number of spells as shown on table 1-12, modified by his Intelligence score." Do clerics get a number of spells modified by personality?


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 Post subject: Re: Starting Cleric spells
PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2012 5:25 am 
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Nope. The rules don't say it and it appears to be intentional, because (I'd argue) Clerics aren't supposed to be as skilled in magic use as Wizards.

Incidentally, here's my tables for randomly determining spells at level 1:

viewtopic.php?f=75&t=42192

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RoM pbp:
Hamun Ry (Wiz 4)
Str 10 Agi 15 (+1) Sta 11 Per 11 Int 17 (+2) Luc 10 (Unholy House). Align: C. AC: 14. HP: 13. Melee +1, Ranged +2. Crit: d8, I. Save: Ref +5, Fort +3, Will +4.
Spells: 1: Choking Cloud, Comprehend Languages, Detect Magic (odd crystal growths), Magic Missile (mirror images), Runic Alphabet (Mortal) (ravenously hungry), Ventriloquism (rain of frogs)
2: Detect Invisible, Levitate (extremely difficult, d14), Mirror Image (20% chance to raise/lower luck by 1d3 points).
Equip: Ring of the Sand Djinn: +2 AC/saves, Invisibility for 1min/spellburn point, or unmake for great, unknown effect. Padded Armor, Longsword, Longbow, quiver w/20 steel-tipped arrows, 10 silver-tipped arrows, backpack, spellbook, quill and ink, sturdy parchment (10 sheets), 5 days rations, high leather boots, belt w/ belt pouch, gray robe, dark gray hooded cloak. Also carries 3 small mechanical toys: wind-up mouse, wooden puzzle cube, small jewelry box that plays a little tune.


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 Post subject: Re: Starting Cleric spells
PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2012 5:30 pm 
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Far-Sighted Wanderer

Joined: Thu Aug 23, 2012 8:05 pm
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I think that is the issue here, the rules don't say it at all for a cleric. They do for a wizard. By the way, clerics and wizards use differnt types of magic, so saying a cleric shouldn't be as good at idol magic as a wizard isn't really a comparison at all.


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 Post subject: Re: Starting Cleric spells
PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2012 5:40 pm 
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Wild-Eyed Zealot
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I think what Beermotor is saying is that clerics have other skills that are part of their repertoire (like better hit points and better combat skills) whereas Wizards, just cast spells, so you would expect the overall effectiveness of their spellcasting ability to be greater than the cleric's spellcasting ability.

For me, I let the cleric pick one spell of each level, then roll randomly for the rest. They can always petition their diety to be able to swap out a spell later, but the diety will require some service for it.





edited for spelling


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 Post subject: Re: Starting Cleric spells
PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2012 5:29 am 
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Cold-Hearted Immortal
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Eyeball360 wrote:
I think what Beermotor is saying is that clerics have other skills that are part of their repertoire (like better hit points and better combat skills) whereas Wizards, just cast spells, so you would expect the overall effectiveness of their spellcasting ability to be greater than the cleric's spellcasting ability.



Exactly. And this goes back to OD&D, too... where the cleric was sort of between Fighting-man and Wizard.

_________________

RoM pbp:
Hamun Ry (Wiz 4)
Str 10 Agi 15 (+1) Sta 11 Per 11 Int 17 (+2) Luc 10 (Unholy House). Align: C. AC: 14. HP: 13. Melee +1, Ranged +2. Crit: d8, I. Save: Ref +5, Fort +3, Will +4.
Spells: 1: Choking Cloud, Comprehend Languages, Detect Magic (odd crystal growths), Magic Missile (mirror images), Runic Alphabet (Mortal) (ravenously hungry), Ventriloquism (rain of frogs)
2: Detect Invisible, Levitate (extremely difficult, d14), Mirror Image (20% chance to raise/lower luck by 1d3 points).
Equip: Ring of the Sand Djinn: +2 AC/saves, Invisibility for 1min/spellburn point, or unmake for great, unknown effect. Padded Armor, Longsword, Longbow, quiver w/20 steel-tipped arrows, 10 silver-tipped arrows, backpack, spellbook, quill and ink, sturdy parchment (10 sheets), 5 days rations, high leather boots, belt w/ belt pouch, gray robe, dark gray hooded cloak. Also carries 3 small mechanical toys: wind-up mouse, wooden puzzle cube, small jewelry box that plays a little tune.


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 Post subject: Re: Starting Cleric spells
PostPosted: Thu Nov 22, 2012 12:56 pm 
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Far-Sighted Wanderer
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Joined: Mon Nov 19, 2012 6:43 pm
Posts: 16
Rennrh wrote:
On page 110 the book talks about regaining spells for "divine magic after resting and praying to the cleric’s god." For me, I allow the cleric to choose 4 spells for the day at this time. The cleric can then pray for a different set of spells after the next rest and pray period or keep the same ones, the clerics choice.

One question I have is that "A wizard knows a number of spells as shown on table 1-12, modified by his Intelligence score." Do clerics get a number of spells modified by personality?


Good question. Anyone know the answer?

Pg 18 says it affects the maximum level the cleric is able to cast.

I'm confused on clerical magic. Is it "vancian" with slots to be "filled" each day like AD&D.

Or are they "known" spells - more or less permanent, maybe swapped in with judge/diety approval at level ups, and then rolled for failure to see if they are "lost" or not.

Or is it both, you can fill daily "slots" with available "known" spells that are only "used up" if the spell is "lost" according to the casting roll/chart?

Or do clerics simply cast any "known" spell as many times per day as they wish (limited by disapproval) as long as the spell hasn't been "lost" during a casting for that day? Basically every "known" spell is available or not for that day regardless of the flexibility of which spells are currently "known"? I think if this is the system, letting clerics switch out what spells are "known" every day might be a) complicated and therefore undesirable and b) a bit too powerful.


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 Post subject: Re: Starting Cleric spells
PostPosted: Thu Nov 22, 2012 1:00 pm 
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Cold-Hearted Immortal
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I go with they are "known" spells - more or less permanent, maybe swapped in with judge/deity approval, and then rolled for failure to see if they are "lost" or not.

_________________
SoBH pbp:

Cathbad the Meek (herbalist Wizard 1): AC 9; 4 hp; S 7, A 7, St 10, P 17, I 13, L 8; Neutral; Club, herbs, 50' rope, 50 cp; -1 to melee attack rolls. Hideous scar.


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 Post subject: Re: Starting Cleric spells
PostPosted: Thu Nov 22, 2012 1:08 pm 
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Far-Sighted Wanderer
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Thanks, that sounds right to me.


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 Post subject: Re: Starting Cleric spells
PostPosted: Sat Dec 15, 2012 6:58 am 
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Hard-Bitten Adventurer
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Eyeball360 wrote:
For me, I let the cleric pick one spell of each level, then roll randomly for the rest. They can always petition their diety to be able to swap out a spell later, but the diety will require some service for it.

I was having them all roll randomly, but I think I like this a little better. There are so many ways in DCC for a single dice roll to ruin your day, why not let the cleric have one freebie? :)


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 Post subject: Re: Starting Cleric spells
PostPosted: Mon Feb 04, 2013 3:43 pm 
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Hard-Bitten Adventurer
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Location: West Palm Beach, Fl
TheNobleDrake wrote:
My method: Roll the spells randomly (the spell table listing each spell on page 128 happens to be numbered, so why not use that?), and as the Judge alter the resulting selection of spells so that all 4 spells fit within the established theme of the god worshiped by the cleric.

Example:

rolling a d12 the player gets 6, 3, 8 and 1.
that would mean Blessing, Detect Evil, Holy Sanctuary, and Protection from Evil.
The character has chosen to worship a god of health and harvest... and within that theme, detect evil doesn't really "vibe" quite that well. As the Judge, I would then replace Detect Evil with a more thematically appropriate option, Food of the Gods.



This is pretty much what I do, and it has worked out pretty good. I also decided to create a single Deity specific spell that is only available to Cleric's of that God.

Example, in my world the Goddess of seasons Mesha, grants Entangle as one of the 1st level spells for her priests, or in our case Druids.

Or Losborst the God of Wine, grants the spell Drunkeness to his clerics.

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