Goodman Games

I've reviewed Doom of the Savage Kings here.

Here's a quote and a question about the module:


The highest DC suggested in the main rules is 20. In order to beat DC 23, you'd need an Agility of 18 (+3 modifier) and you'd need to roll a natural 20. Is this intentional (i.e. only thieves need apply)?

On a more positive note:


The Hound of Hirot is a top-notch demonstration of the design philosophy of DCC: It's unique, mysterious and terrifying. Rock on!

I was really pissed when I saw this tucked into a copy of the game at the local store but they wouldn't let me buy it separately. It feels like I'm being punished for having purchased my copy of the book directly from Goodman Games! Anyway, any chance we could buy it directly from goodman games? How about if you have already purchased the core book?

Prolly best to directly e-mail or PM Harley or Joseph this question. It's too easily overlooked on a busy forum.

Colin

Thank you for the excellent review and critique. Excellent points all.

Re: Skill checks. It was definitely *not* written under 3.5, though I can see how some of the skill checks might point that direction. In general, it is a failing of mine to err on the side of DCs being too high. My cohorts at GG do a good job in dialing back most my skill check calls, but a few still slip though.

However, a few points in my defense. Feel free to take or leave them:

I wouldn't argue that the skill DCs are fair. In fact, mine are often deliberately unfair. If a non-thief PC reaches the point where he has to make a skill check, he's likely already down the wrong road, having missed the chance to solve the challenge via roleplaying.

So whither the skill check requiring either skilled climber or a nat 20 + 18 Dex? I wrote it with visions of a sheer pit, slick with muck. Literally impossible for all but an insanely talented (or skilled) climber to free climb without tools. (And in Colorado, I know some of those folks. And our climbing skills radically differ.)

Fair? No. Just as not every fight is winnable, not every skill check is make-able. PC / player discretion is key. Fortunately there is the other way out of the passage. Or, hopefully, someone brought rope.

Anyhow, that was the rationale / logic behind it.

You'll see a similar climb check Sailors. I remember Joseph coming to me, saying, "Harley, the climb check is too high! It's almost impossible!" To which my response was, "It's an overhung, crumbling tower. They are untrained, without gear, climbing in sandals or bare feet. Yes, it is nearly impossible."

If memory serves, we dialed it back a little, but it is still a really difficult check.

The lesson? My boss agrees with you. And I still went with the high check.

//H

Players: If you see Harley's name on a module...be very very careful

(loving the adventures, thanks)

I like the high check. It matches very much what is happening in the game.

I like your response very much. I am gunning for the PCs' asses myself - hence my blog is named Out for Blood and includes articles on Becoming a Killer DM. I would have and probably will set the DCs differently but it's good to know they are not a fluke, but a deliberate pattern - a core of steel, as it were. I like that.

Running things as written is viable (i.e. the warnings signs are there and a climb can be avoided) and should be a veritable shock therapy to get players into the mood for gritty pulp fiction. Rock on!

The free module was included with preorders from both consumers and retailers, do there are some copies on retailer shelves out there. The front cover of the module is printed with a price - "free with purchase of DCC RPG, $9.99 otherwise." It is still their inventory to do with as they deem, but you may find a store willing to sell it separately.

Am I right in assuming the only way to make a DC23 check for climbing is if the PC is a Thief, 18 AGI (+3 modifier) AND Rolls a 20? Otherwise, if the PC is not a thief he would not be trained in climbing and would have to roll d10 for the check right?

Will the pdf of Doom be available at some point?

No, because the Thief can and should burn Luck at this point.

Halflings burn Luck at 2 to 1, and can burn Luck for others.

Whether or not a non-Thief is trained is a function of their starting occupation.

Or a rope. We'd settle for a rope.

//H

Yeah, that too!

The point is that quick thinking may be required, but the mechanics are (IMHO) pretty spot-on for what is happening in the game milieu. That is one sweet module you've written there!

Quick question regarding climbing - isn't that one of the things "any adult human can do" mentioned in the book as being always a d20 roll for skills regardless of occupation?

I only ask because that part of the skill rules seemed, to me, to indicate the skills of jumping, climbing, and swimming more prominently than any others.

I couldn't love a man, as a man, in a heterosexual way, more than I do YOU right now.

You wrote a freaking METAL adventure, and it makes sense that it requires a METAL adventurer to overcome its challenges.

Let's hug it out, brah.

I ran Doom of the Savage Kings yesterday and we had a blast. Five players ran four 0-level characters each. Time was short, so I started them off right in front of the dungeon.* They lost 18 out of 20 characters and slew the hound. Great times!

*I'll use the village as a base for a planned mini-campaign dealing with the highly acclaimed Barrowmaze.

I've amended my review with Harley's answer and the above text.

Thanks. A new friend from the boards here offered to sell me an extra copy, so it is all good. Can't wait to check it out! My teenage daughters and one of their friends were pawing over the book yesterday and made me promise to run an adventure for them once I can get one ready (?!?!?!?). Unexpected, but welcome chance to do something goofy with the kids!

Johann!

I'm so glad the adventure went well. 18 of 20 .... yikes ... They drowned the beast in the blood of their fallen comrades!

"Out for Blood," indeed! Well played, sir.

//H

DC23 climb check is unnecessary, if you're at the bottom and still alive, just walk out the east hall and take the stairs.

The players made the choice to face the beast.

After a veritable bloodbath in the dungeon, I gave the survivors the option to hand over the spear to the Jarl for a nice reward. The majority of the players seemed to favor this, but one player wanted to tackle the hound himself. The others reluctantly agreed and off they went. =)

At the end, only three characters were left: One fled, one died (the original "Let's confront the hound ourselves!" guy) and one slew the hound. As luck would have it, the triumphant player was a friend's twelve-year-old son who occasionally plays with us.

I didn't pull any punches and rolled everything in the open. He didn't run away and he saved the day. Great times!

The risk of character death - the real risk, that is - makes victory that much sweeter!

(Cue links to my blog for articles on old school gaming and Death, Dying and TPKs.)

*Very* cool. I can't think of a better conclusion to the adventure!

//H