Print vs. PDF

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Warren1965
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Print vs. PDF

Post by Warren1965 » Sat Feb 25, 2012 10:04 am

I have both the PDF and a dead tree version of ERP, I gave the printed version to the best DM in our group to see if he would run it. Good news for you he bought the PDF however his reason made me wonder about something. He bought the PDF because he has been reading the board and wanted to make sure he had the correct version of the text and examples. My question is did the print version get updated and if it did how can someone tell if they have the current version. I would compare them myself but I only have the PDF at the moment.

Warren

PS Yes I loaned the Print version because I uncomfortable doing that with PDF's, also IMHO a dead tree version is more likely to get looked at than a PDF by someone who looks at a computer all day :)

dancross
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Re: Print vs. PDF

Post by dancross » Fri Mar 09, 2012 11:48 pm

Sorry I didn't respond sooner to this. The PDF corrected typos and page references from the original print run, and added some optional sidebar rules as suggested by the community of players.

There are only two versions right now, and it's really just a matter of errata.

Did he end up running the game?
Warren1965 wrote:I have both the PDF and a dead tree version of ERP, I gave the printed version to the best DM in our group to see if he would run it. Good news for you he bought the PDF however his reason made me wonder about something. He bought the PDF because he has been reading the board and wanted to make sure he had the correct version of the text and examples. My question is did the print version get updated and if it did how can someone tell if they have the current version. I would compare them myself but I only have the PDF at the moment.

Warren

PS Yes I loaned the Print version because I uncomfortable doing that with PDF's, also IMHO a dead tree version is more likely to get looked at than a PDF by someone who looks at a computer all day :)

Warren1965
Far-Sighted Wanderer
Posts: 11
Joined: Sun Aug 15, 2010 1:34 pm

Re: Print vs. PDF

Post by Warren1965 » Sat Mar 10, 2012 7:31 pm

I am blessed in that we have a rotating group of 3 GM's and it isn't Ray's turn yet but he is planning on running ERP. He is getting used to the system (ie realizing it is simplier than we make it out to be), So far Characters and combat are things he likes, right now he is dealing with the magic system. Coming off of the worlds most popular system a free form system is hard to wrap your head around.

I had a thought the other day while making up a character, say you wanted to simulate the extra damage certain character class had against a specified foe would that be a specailty under Melee/ranged or a mastery? Specailty would take the place of sword or what have you so I am not feeling the love for that, however can you have a mastery that applies to any specailty? I mean if you hade Melee D8 > Sword D6 and >Axe D6 could you take Mastery vs Orcs D4 that would get added to either axe or sword depending on what you were using? Or is there another way to do this that I am missing?

Warren

Actually it is vs 6 fingered men

dancross
Cold-Blooded Diabolist
Posts: 528
Joined: Sat Sep 08, 2007 9:32 pm

Re: Print vs. PDF

Post by dancross » Sat Mar 10, 2012 9:28 pm

Good evening!
Warren1965 wrote:I am blessed in that we have a rotating group of 3 GM's and it isn't Ray's turn yet but he is planning on running ERP. He is getting used to the system (ie realizing it is simplier than we make it out to be), So far Characters and combat are things he likes, right now he is dealing with the magic system. Coming off of the worlds most popular system a free form system is hard to wrap your head around.
Understandable. Eldritch has that in common with FUDGE...it can easily be bent and molded to suit ones' needs. I still have plans to show how the rules can be adapted to different settings, but it's been SLOW going.
"I had a thought the other day while making up a character, say you wanted to simulate the extra damage certain character class had against a specified foe would that be a specailty under Melee/ranged or a mastery? Specailty would take the place of sword or what have you so I am not feeling the love for that, however can you have a mastery that applies to any specailty? I mean if you hade Melee D8 > Sword D6 and >Axe D6 could you take Mastery vs Orcs D4 that would get added to either axe or sword depending on what you were using? Or is there another way to do this that I am missing?"
You can have a mastery that applies to any specialty, but the rules generally restrict it to a maximum of three dice rolled at once. So it would be better to make it an "advantage", rolled in addition to the regular ability check when facing a certain monster type. Otherwise, you could make it Melee D8 > Sword D8 > vs. goblin mastery style, or somesuch, so that you are really good at dispatching goblins with swords in general.

-dan

Actually it is vs 6 fingered men
LOL

cogitare
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Re: Print vs. PDF

Post by cogitare » Mon Mar 19, 2012 6:24 am

Warren1965 wrote:...right now he is dealing with the magic system. Coming off of the worlds most popular system a free form system is hard to wrap your head around.
I tried the magic system out of the box and it did not fly very well unfortunately. It feels clunky where the rest of the rules are so smooth and also a mage type character is rather quickly drained of his spell points and is reduced to whatever other way of contributing to the group beside spellcasting.

I have devised a cooldown system which always allow a spellcaster to be able to sling the simpler type of spells (like damaging a single opponent much like an archer or close combat fighter) but more powerful spells (stronger effect, effect more people (ie. area affect and the like), multi effect) have to cool down before being able to be used again.

Also I run the game with specific spells (not really freeform) made up of effects from the 9 general effects found in the core rules.
Warren1965 wrote:I had a thought the other day while making up a character, say you wanted to simulate the extra damage certain character class had against a specified foe would that be a specailty under Melee/ranged or a mastery? Specailty would take the place of sword or what have you so I am not feeling the love for that, however can you have a mastery that applies to any specailty? I mean if you hade Melee D8 > Sword D6 and >Axe D6 could you take Mastery vs Orcs D4 that would get added to either axe or sword depending on what you were using? Or is there another way to do this that I am missing?
You could do that due to the flexibility of the system (I have on purpose not read Dans reply yet....). Personally I would put such customization as an Advantage though.

Cog.

dancross
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Re: Print vs. PDF

Post by dancross » Mon Mar 19, 2012 7:55 am

cogitare wrote: I tried the magic system out of the box and it did not fly very well unfortunately. It feels clunky where the rest of the rules are so smooth and also a mage type character is rather quickly drained of his spell points and is reduced to whatever other way of contributing to the group beside spellcasting.
It was revised: The number of spell points a magic user has is determined by adding up the Max-Value of Arcanum Tree ×2. The printed book had it as just MV of Arcanum Tree with no modifier.

I originally had lower spell points because magic users would cast using their own Resilience: "An arcanist who casts a spell but has no spell points to spend will deplete his Resilience Defense Pool. The spell will work this way, but it is fatiguing, and can leave him more vulnerable to many magical effects". Experienced arcanists have a lot of Resilience to draw from.

However...
I have devised a cooldown system which always allow a spellcaster to be able to sling the simpler type of spells (like damaging a single opponent much like an archer or close combat fighter) but more powerful spells (stronger effect, effect more people (ie. area affect and the like), multi effect) have to cool down before being able to be used again
.

Do you have this written out? I'd be curious to see it. Are you making basic single-target spell attacks free of spell points? Since most "Harm" Effect spells bypass armor and Active Defenses, how do you balance this out?
Also I run the game with specific spells (not really freeform) made up of effects from the 9 general effects found in the core rules.
Do you want a copy of the revised PDF? I'd be happy to send it to you, since you obviously bought the print book. PM me with your email and I'll send it to you.

cogitare
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Re: Print vs. PDF

Post by cogitare » Mon Mar 19, 2012 1:37 pm

dancross wrote:It was revised: The number of spell points a magic user has is determined by adding up the Max-Value of Arcanum Tree ×2. The printed book had it as just MV of Arcanum Tree with no modifier.
Ok, I actually think I tried that one as well. Still with a fairly good roll and spell that carried on into subsequent rounds the spell points drained away quickly.
dancross wrote:I originally had lower spell points because magic users would cast using their own Resilience: "An arcanist who casts a spell but has no spell points to spend will deplete his Resilience Defense Pool. The spell will work this way, but it is fatiguing, and can leave him more vulnerable to many magical effects". Experienced arcanists have a lot of Resilience to draw from.
Yeah, that's in my version and that's how I ran it as well.
dancross wrote:Do you have this written out? I'd be curious to see it.
I have and you've actually read it. You can find it here :https://docs.google.com/document/d/14r- ... sZzSg/edit. And you're already added as a contributor in the document.
dancross wrote:Are you making basic single-target spell attacks free of spell points? Since most "Harm" Effect spells bypass armor and Active Defenses, how do you balance this out?
Yeah, I'm making single-target Harm effects free of charge basically. They are similar to a ranged attack. Ethereal spells, ie. those bypassing armor, are resisted by a save trait (similar to how it's described for spells in the monster compendium) so it's harder to get those through. And the surplus can then be mitigated by Reslience before effecting Toughness.

Physical spells do not bypass armor and I make those spells more or less equal to a ranged attack and can thus be mitigated by ADPs.
dancross wrote:Do you want a copy of the revised PDF? I'd be happy to send it to you, since you obviously bought the print book. PM me with your email and I'll send it to you.
If you figure out who I am you should already have my mailaddress in your gmail-account :) But I'll PM you just to be sure.

Thank you very much!

Cog.

dancross
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Re: Print vs. PDF

Post by dancross » Mon Mar 19, 2012 1:47 pm

I do remember now...I just didn't put 2 and 2 together. I will have to go back and read the cooldown doc again. :oops:

cogitare
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Re: Print vs. PDF

Post by cogitare » Tue Mar 20, 2012 1:23 am

dancross wrote:I do remember now...I just didn't put 2 and 2 together. I will have to go back and read the cooldown doc again. :oops:
Don't sweat it :)

I will probably revisit that document as the conversion progress. For example I have to incorporate Defiling/Preserving in the magic system since that is integral to the setting. Also I'd like to change the rules I have in there for Maintainable spells. It works but requires some administration which I would be glad to get rid of somehow.

Also I wonder how you rule with Obfuscate effects vs. Curse. Obfuscate effect can penalize everyone attacking you (regardless if Melee, Ranged, Unarmed or Arcanum basically) based on the premise that you are hard to detect for whatever reason. This seem awfully potent where Curse effect will effect "only" one of the above mentioned Abilities.

It came up in the 2nd session we played actually and I have handwaived it since but would like to handle it better than that and in a consistant fashion. I noticed in the revised PDF there were some optional rules for detecting invisible creatures which might be usable?

How do you run it in your games?

Cog.

dancross
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Re: Print vs. PDF

Post by dancross » Wed Mar 28, 2012 4:21 pm

cogitare wrote:
Also I wonder how you rule with Obfuscate effects vs. Curse. Obfuscate effect can penalize everyone attacking you (regardless if Melee, Ranged, Unarmed or Arcanum basically) based on the premise that you are hard to detect for whatever reason. This seem awfully potent where Curse effect will effect "only" one of the above mentioned Abilities.
Well, Obfuscate affects only the ability to see and strike by conventional means. The Curse Effect can target any ability at all.
It came up in the 2nd session we played actually and I have handwaived it since but would like to handle it better than that and in a consistant fashion. I noticed in the revised PDF there were some optional rules for detecting invisible creatures which might be usable?
Yes, several fans submitted ideas that I incorporated as optional rules in the revised PDF. They are:

Dunbruha’s Rule on Hitting
Invisible Creatures:
Use the amount of the spell roll
as a penalty to the Scrutiny check
of the foe (Resilience does not
apply). The foe makes a Scrutiny
roll, and subtracts the amount of
the Invisibilty roll. If the result
is < 0, then the foe does not see
the target. If the result is low
(say, 1, 2, or 3), then the foe “sees
something out of the corner of
his eye”, but can’t quite make
out what is there (but could
shoot in that direction). If the
result is greater than 4, then the
foe can see the target. All of this
is for visual Scrutiny only--any
other cues such as odor, sound,
etc would be separate Scrutiny
checks (no penalty).

Evilcat’s Rules pertaining to
Invisible Creatures:
1. If a Scrutiny check fully or
almost fully relies on sight (Read
lips), it doesn’t work against
invisible creature.
2. If a Scrutiny check uses sight
and others senses and logic
(Movement), roll it as usual, but
apply spell roll penalty.
3. If the Scrutiny check doesn’t
use sight or doesn’t have to
(because the perception is based
on some other sense, including
sixth sense) - it works as usual, no
penalty applied.
.

cogitare
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Re: Print vs. PDF

Post by cogitare » Mon Oct 08, 2012 1:55 am

Trying to breathe some life into these boards :)

I have my own version of Obfuscate/Obscure effect in place now.

Each margin of success of the spell grants one 'degree' of cover (had I been able to post my table I would) and if 5+ Margin of Successes is achieved no ranged attacks can be staged. Close combat is penalized by -1 per two Margins of Success (rounded down). If you reach 10+ Margins of Success (very hard but achievable) you cannot be targeted with close combat attacks.

Outside of combat one Margin of Success penalizes Scrutiny rolls (I've lessened the impact of Augment and Curse effects which Obscure is a part of) by one (ie. same basic functionality as in ERP but to a lesser degree).

Adverse magic effects can be resisted using a Saving throw which get a cumulative +1 per attempt. The bonus is reverted to zero as soon as you succeed (this is in place in order to get a fighting chance and NOT get stuck in a magic effect forever with little to no chance of getting out of it). This covers other effects than Obscure such as Influence or Curse.

Cog.

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