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 Post subject: Re: Alternative to "3d6, in order"
PostPosted: Tue Oct 11, 2011 12:45 pm 
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JediOre wrote:
Why can't my "history" posts garner even a bit of attention that these pesky "math" posts do!?? :P

Welcome to the forums. Great first post.


Er... What?


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 Post subject: Re: Alternative to "3d6, in order"
PostPosted: Tue Oct 11, 2011 1:24 pm 
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finarvyn wrote:
JediOre wrote:
Why can't my "history" posts garner even a bit of attention that these pesky "math" posts do!?? :P

History is hard to debate, since anyone can be "right." Math arguments are such that if a person is "wrong" everyone jumps on it!


Curses! :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: Alternative to "3d6, in order"
PostPosted: Tue Oct 11, 2011 1:26 pm 
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jmucchiello wrote:
JediOre wrote:
Why can't my "history" posts garner even a bit of attention that these pesky "math" posts do!?? :P

Welcome to the forums. Great first post.


Er... What?


Jmucchiello,

Thanks for the welcome. Thank you for the comment. However, I've posted a couple of times prior to the above post! :wink:


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 Post subject: Re: Alternative to "3d6, in order"
PostPosted: Wed Oct 12, 2011 9:44 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jan 28, 2011 2:52 pm
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I'm just going to throw something out there that I've thrown out there so much over the last 8 or 9 months that it hardly sticks to the wall anymore.

DCC really, really needs one or a few "variant" ability score options for (a) creating characters that are higher than 0-level and (b) generates stats in a way that isn't 3d6 in order that doesn't violate the premises upon which DCC is built. This needs to be in an appendix or something.

abk's original suggestion is as good as any I've seen. I don't care for 4d6, drop the lowest, because - IME - it creates the kind of stat-bloated PCs that I'd rather avoid. I agree with hamakto about 4e -- throwing in my hat for the inevitable edition ragnarok, I guess.

I'd rather not have DCC be a game solely focused on making sure you get a +2 bonus in a primary ability score. And I'd also rather have an option that carries the blessing of Joseph and Harley than have to do a forum search for a trillion options whose side effects on play aren't apparent until the damage is done -- so to speak.


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 Post subject: Re: Alternative to "3d6, in order"
PostPosted: Fri Oct 14, 2011 7:18 am 
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smathis wrote:
I'm just going to throw something out there that I've thrown out there so much over the last 8 or 9 months that it hardly sticks to the wall anymore.

DCC really, really needs one or a few "variant" ability score options for (a) creating characters that are higher than 0-level and (b) generates stats in a way that isn't 3d6 in order that doesn't violate the premises upon which DCC is built. This needs to be in an appendix or something.

abk's original suggestion is as good as any I've seen. I don't care for 4d6, drop the lowest, because - IME - it creates the kind of stat-bloated PCs that I'd rather avoid. I agree with hamakto about 4e -- throwing in my hat for the inevitable edition ragnarok, I guess.

I'd rather not have DCC be a game solely focused on making sure you get a +2 bonus in a primary ability score. And I'd also rather have an option that carries the blessing of Joseph and Harley than have to do a forum search for a trillion options whose side effects on play aren't apparent until the damage is done -- so to speak.


I like you idea. Which I why I like the roll 3d6 in order multiple times (i.e. 2,3, or 4 sets of scores). Pick the best set of scores (i.e. similar to a funnel method).

Yes, you will actually get character with better stats then going through a funnel (random chance the best guy bites it). But you still do not violate the ability score curve that the game is based on. All you are doing is avoiding the starting 'funnel'.

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 Post subject: Re: Alternative to "3d6, in order"
PostPosted: Fri Oct 14, 2011 11:41 am 
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smathis wrote:
I'd rather not have DCC be a game solely focused on making sure you get a +2 bonus in a primary ability score. And I'd also rather have an option that carries the blessing of Joseph and Harley than have to do a forum search for a trillion options whose side effects on play aren't apparent until the damage is done -- so to speak.


Eliminate all ability score bias from the game, then. OD&D didn't need them. :)


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 Post subject: Re: Alternative to "3d6, in order"
PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2012 12:40 pm 
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I have a group that is similar in tastes. They like super-hero games, where they are destined to become legends. I like the funnel. Here was our compromise.

Roll 3d6 and you may reroll and one, 1 result, once. If you roll 1,1,4 then you could pick up one of the 1's and reroll it. If your reroll was a 1, then you end up with a 6 in the stat (the rerolled 1, a 1, and the 4).

Then, to show them that I care about our game and their concerns, I let them add 1 ability point to any of their stats. So they could make that one 16 a 17. I'm ok with that.

Later, I know that we will need to do something to add to the system, so I'm thinking about adding a point buy system when they hit first level, and allowing them to switch one stat with another. A little tweaking to get them where they want to go.

I'm thinking about giving them 5 points in the standard 3.5 point buy system, but 4 or 6 points might work as well. This way, they can up some lower scores and even out the characters (making them a bit more heroic for the long haul, or they can try to max that one important stat.

Any thought?

Aluvial


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 Post subject: Re: Alternative to "3d6, in order"
PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2012 2:09 pm 
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Tell them to trust you and then include "magic fountains" and such in your world where once you defeat the three demons guarding it, the fountain grants you ability score boosts if you sacrifice the right amount of gold. IOW, create a random table with good and bad effects and grant a bonus to the die roll based on the sacrifice made. Luck also applies to the die roll. The fountain has a cumulative -5 penalty each time the same person attempts to gain a benefit from it.


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 Post subject: Re: Alternative to "3d6, in order"
PostPosted: Sat Feb 04, 2012 12:27 pm 
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Well, I still gotta be old school on this. "Arrange as desired", is the beginning of characters builds and optimization. Whatever dice method, assigning scores in order is a must. For funnel characters, 3d6 in order is a must. Starting higher, I usually let a player roll 2d6+6 per score. For those who must customize, I allow the Holmes rule of -2 for +1, but there's got to be some serendipity and surprise.

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 Post subject: Re: Alternative to "3d6, in order"
PostPosted: Sat Feb 04, 2012 3:00 pm 
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abk108 wrote:
My players like powerful, optimized pcs.


I LOVE DCC RPG, but honestly, it is not designed for powerful, optimized pcs. :?

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 Post subject: Re: Alternative to "3d6, in order"
PostPosted: Sun Feb 05, 2012 8:59 am 
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Coleston the Cavalier wrote:
abk108 wrote:
My players like powerful, optimized pcs.
I LOVE DCC RPG, but honestly, it is not designed for powerful, optimized pcs. :?
Well said, John!

Funny how many times folks buy a rake and complain that dirt falls through when they try to use it like a shovel. Then they spend all this time trying to figure out how to re-tool the rake so that it does what a shovel can do. Why don't they just buy a shovel in the first place?

RPGs are like that. DCC has been designed to recreate a variant of old school play with a different atmosphere from the original. It won't have the "bells and whistles" of a modern RPG because it's not trying to be that. You want skills and feats and power cards? They aren't in this game.

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"The worthy GM never purposely kills players' PCs, He presents opportunities for the rash and unthinking players to do that all on their own."
-- Gary Gygax
"Don't ask me what you need to hit. Just roll the die and I will let you know!"
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 Post subject: Re: Alternative to "3d6, in order"
PostPosted: Sun Feb 05, 2012 8:16 pm 
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Yup, there are plenty of games (OSR and later editions of D&D) that play perfectly awesome, and are designed for higher-powered, high-fantasy. DCC RPG makes no apology for being gritty and deadly. At the same time no one is stopping anyone from rolling 4d6 and drop the lowest, or using an array--each his own. DCC RPG's core rules is intentionally low-powered (originally limited to level 5) and pre-"domain" level play. Buy the time characters reach 10th, they're beyond dungeon crawling and searching for treasure. By then, they should be dealing with traitors, assassins and taxing thier peasants--again, there are tons of games designed for this kind of play (I just ordered ACKS! and it's pretty awesome.) I love how Conan stories switch from thief trying to make a living, to a King dealing with conspiracies and managing his kingdom. But like Conan, I find playing in at the "domain" level tedious. Quite frankly I'm not a fan of High-level play, and I especially don't like running high-level adventures.

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