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 Post subject: Ruminations on spells
PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2012 1:15 pm 
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Far-Sighted Wanderer

Joined: Sat Sep 24, 2011 10:10 am
Posts: 20
Since the spell roll is based on level the spell success gets higher for each level a character attains. This makes me think that spells themselves don't need levels. Higher level caster will get more out of a spell usually.

Here's a thought on a generic spell to sumon fire. This could be an any level spell. With a few rules allowing characters choose an effect lower than their roll it could add a creative effect to a game.

This probably needs some play testing to get the levels of success right. And could probably be expanded for further effects.


Summon fire
Level 1
Range varies
Duration Varies
Casting time 1 round
Save: varies

Manifestation
The wizard produces fire. The amount duration and manipulation of the fire created depends on the level of success. 

General
You produce fire and exert some control over the fire created.

1-11 Lost. Failure.

12 - You produce fire from your finger tips. You can us this ignite flammable things that you can touch. This fire gives of the light of a candle. Lasts one round per level.13 - Your hands immolate. These flames can light flammable objects and give off light as per a torch. Striking with your hands add an extra d4 flame damage. The effect lasts one round per level.14 - Fire extends from your hand to and item you hold. If you hold a sword or dagger it can burst into flames. Add an extra d4 damage to the weapon. You can alternately send flames to another part of your body, for example your crown could burst into flames. The effect lasts one round per level.

15 - As above, but the fire is hotter adding a d6 to damage rather than a d4.

16 - You may cast fire into location up to your level x10' away. A 5x5' square bursts into flames similar to a camp fire. Anything in that square takes 1d6 fire damage per round. Flammable objects in that square catch fire. The flames exist for 1 round per level. 17 - As above but the area is two adjacent 5x5' squares.18 - As above but covers three squares. 19 - You may cast the fire onto an existing entity. Person or object bursts into flames. (there sould probably be a save involved) the entity takes 1d6 per round. The effect lasts 1 round per level. 20 - You may create a burst of flame. This flame burst can be thrown up to twice your level times 10'. The burst has a radius of your level times 5' and does 1d6 per level in damage.


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 Post subject: Re: Ruminations on spells
PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2012 1:52 pm 
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Some interesting ideas here. Reminds me of some of the Rolemaster game rules for spells.

However, I'm going to give you the "company line" on this:
1. Spell levels have roots back to the original edition D&D back in the 1970's. It has worked pretty well and there isn't a real need to "fix" the system.
2. At this point in the game development process, a change as signifcant as this simply won't happen. Too much to change, no time to do it. The rules are in the layout phase and small tweaks may be possible, but major changes such as this really aren't realistic.

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 Post subject: Re: Ruminations on spells
PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2012 1:55 pm 
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Chaos-Summoning Sorcerer

Joined: Mon Mar 14, 2011 5:28 am
Posts: 779
nudnic wrote:
Since the spell roll is based on level the spell success gets higher for each level a character attains. This makes me think that spells themselves don't need levels.

Old idea. viewtopic.php?p=39766#p39766


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 Post subject: Re: Ruminations on spells
PostPosted: Mon Jan 23, 2012 1:44 pm 
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Cold-Blooded Diabolist

Joined: Mon Jan 06, 2003 6:19 pm
Posts: 519
nudnic wrote:
Since the spell roll is based on level the spell success gets higher for each level a character attains. This makes me think that spells themselves don't need levels. Higher level caster will get more out of a spell usually.


I started doing this last week as part of my DCC and C&C integration. I'm taking a line from Savage Worlds, and making generic classes of spells, for instance, Detect is a spell class with three variations -- haven't decided whether the wizard learns "Detect" and then perfects the three variations ( by some other mechanic or if I'm just organizing... But anyway, Results vary by the Spell check roll. Anyway, the variations are Physical Features, Alchemical Properties and Magical Properties. This lumps in (on the physical side) Secret doors and traps, (on the alchemical side) poison and identify (just for potions), and (on the magical side) general magic, specific magic and identify for all other magical things.

For magic missile, fireball, etc etc, I'm going to either use the "Bolt," "Blast," etc, etc method of Savage Worlds, or call it Elemental Control, and have a variation that allows various forms of magical missiles, explosions, etc. With an added CL to the spell check for various energies to tack on.

I'm taking the approach of doing more with less spells. I've even considered making clerics and wizards essentially the same -- with the only difference being that the cleric derives his power more directly than a wizard... dunno. Still thinking about that.

I'm going to play with this and see how it works, but seemed to work great in Savage Worlds. In addition, it seemed to give the DM better control over what a spell actually does -- meaning the player (and the character) don't know what to expect.

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 Post subject: Re: Ruminations on spells
PostPosted: Mon Jan 23, 2012 7:48 pm 
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Chaos-Summoning Sorcerer

Joined: Mon Mar 14, 2011 5:28 am
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ragboy wrote:
I'm going to play with this and see how it works, but seemed to work great in Savage Worlds. In addition, it seemed to give the DM better control over what a spell actually does -- meaning the player (and the character) don't know what to expect.

This is certainly much more Appendix N than baseline DCCRPG. I also like the idea of using a spell seed system like you are describing. (In 3e, there was a PDF from EN Publishing called Elements of Magic (Revised) that is similar to what you are describing, though probably far more rules heavy than you are using.)


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 Post subject: Re: Ruminations on spells
PostPosted: Wed Jan 25, 2012 4:39 pm 
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Tight-Lipped Warlock

Joined: Fri Jan 28, 2011 2:52 pm
Posts: 1086
nudnic wrote:
Since the spell roll is based on level the spell success gets higher for each level a character attains. This makes me think that spells themselves don't need levels. Higher level caster will get more out of a spell usually.

Here's a thought on a generic spell to sumon fire. This could be an any level spell. With a few rules allowing characters choose an effect lower than their roll it could add a creative effect to a game.


Later on in the development process, I'll leak out information. But the spells in Transylvanian Grimoire use levels differently from regular DCC spells. It's why I wouldn't recommend using both spells in conjunction unless you're looking for two very different types of spellcasting in your game.

I kept spell levels in the TG but the effects scale similarly to what you've outlined in the OP. Hence, me not being on a total tangent of self-promotion.

The reason spells need levels in TG, however, isn't so much because of success results but "failure results". There are no "Failure. Spell Lost. Nothing happens." results in TG. Well, that's not entirely true. There may be some goose-egg results. But by and large if you call down the magic SOMETHING happens. For higher level spells, the success is bigger and badder. But the failure results are bigger and considerably badder as well.

It's the same approach as DCC. Just adding a different axis along the route of failing during spellcasting.


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 Post subject: Re: Ruminations on spells
PostPosted: Wed Jan 25, 2012 5:07 pm 
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Far-Sighted Wanderer

Joined: Sat Sep 24, 2011 10:10 am
Posts: 20
This "Transylvanian Grimoire" sounds interesting what is it?


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