Experience

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finarvyn
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Re: Experience

Post by finarvyn » Fri Feb 18, 2011 3:31 am

Machpants wrote:I like the idea of spending gold to get XP, and by that I mean spending it on ale and ladies of negotiable virtue, not armour! It makes no sense in the real world but I just like the idea.
Certainly this philosophy is very much in the spirit of many of the Appendix N books. Conan, Fafhrd/Mouser, and so on had this talent for finding fantastic treasure, then being penniless by the start of the next adventure.

My biggest objection about XP for gold is that they can buy swords and armor and other stuff to make them better, plus they get the XP which makes them better. If you force them to "waste" their gold at least we limit that part of it!
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Re: Experience

Post by mshensley » Fri Feb 18, 2011 5:05 am

I think if you go back and look closely you'll see that Conan et al. usually lost the treasure they were seeking most of the time. They usually are just happy to be alive by the end of the story and have remained poor.

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Re: Experience

Post by smathis » Fri Feb 18, 2011 6:22 am

finarvyn wrote:My biggest objection about XP for gold is that they can buy swords and armor and other stuff to make them better, plus they get the XP which makes them better. If you force them to "waste" their gold at least we limit that part of it!
Unfortunately, "shopping" is a pretty big part of the rpg experience. I'm sure it could be excised without much uproar. But one of the appeals of 3e and 4e -- as well as the appeal of all those old school equipment lists -- is the "shopping" experience.

I think juxtaposing gold that you get and throw away frivolously in true S&S fashion versus gold you spend to, say, better-up your armor is a good approach. So, maybe characters get XP for ale and wenching. But not for buying a new sword. I think getting better equipment is a bonus in itself. I mean, say I spend 50gp to get a sword that does 1d10 damage. Well, I'm no longer doing 1d6 damage with that rickety old short sword. Do I need to get experience on top of that?

The cycle appears to be that many of these Appendix N characters pilfer and lose many fortunes. Whether it's having it stolen by others, thrown away on debauchery or just plain not getting out of the evil temple with it, Conan and others appear to have a fortune in their grasp only to have it slip away somehow.

It's also worth noting that alot of times these characters might upgrade armor or weaponry only to lose said items at some point in the story. A mechanic like that would be nice as well. Maybe you're able to "franchise" a set number of items and you roll the rest to see what you've had to lose or pawn between adventures. And you get experience for the value of those items lost.

Meanwhile, a handy "Ale & Wenching" sort of mechanic would be awesome in DCC.

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Re: Experience

Post by Geoffrey » Fri Feb 18, 2011 7:28 am

geordie racer wrote:If you wanted to take DCC rpg's use of randomization into the area of advancement I remember Geoffrey posting on Jim Raggi's site about a method:
At the conclusion of each session, each player rolls 1d20 for his character. On an adjusted roll of 20, the character gains a level. The roll is modified by +1 for each previous failed levelling roll at this level only.

Thus a newly 3rd level fighter completes a session. He will gain a level again on a roll of 20. If he fails, the next time he completes a session he gains a level on a 19+, then 18+, etc


and Lord Kilgore put together a Roll to Advance PDF

After a few sessions you could end up with a party of wildly differing levels.
Yep. I think that Kilgore's random method has the best fit with DCC RPG.
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Re: Experience

Post by finarvyn » Fri Feb 18, 2011 12:57 pm

smathis wrote:Meanwhile, a handy "Ale & Wenching" sort of mechanic would be awesome in DCC.
And it could be some simple guideline such as "50% to Ale & Wenching" so that each time they acquire treasure they could just subtract what they need. (Or 2/3 or 80% or whatever is deemed the "best" percentage."

I think that Dave Arneson had a complex system in his Blackmoor campaign back in the '70's. (I think it's in the FFC booklet.) I think that it involved both acquiring and spending treasure, and he said something about characters having to do whole new adventures just trying to "cash in" from the loot of a previous adventure. :lol:

I'm not opposed to a complex system, but I prefer a simple one.
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Re: Experience

Post by Jim Skach » Sat Feb 19, 2011 9:15 am

Combine the two...

You roll after successful quest/module/whatever. Not only do you get a +1 for each previous roll to attain the next level, but you get +1 for each X gp you spend on whores and ale...

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Re: Experience

Post by Black Dougal » Wed Feb 23, 2011 9:25 am

finarvyn wrote:My biggest objection about XP for gold is that they can buy swords and armor and other stuff to make them better, plus they get the XP which makes them better. If you force them to "waste" their gold at least we limit that part of it!
The DM could make shopping an advancement experience. It takes skills to make it through the bazaar without getting your pocket picked. Then you actually have to find the item you are looking for in one of the stalls. After that you have to haggle with the merchant to avoid getting ripped off. That whole experience could be worth a few XP and end up being a major part of downtime.

Just a thought.
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Re: Experience

Post by Ogrepuppy » Thu Feb 24, 2011 3:10 pm

smathis wrote:Unfortunately, "shopping" is a pretty big part of the rpg experience. I'm sure it could be excised without much uproar. But one of the appeals of 3e and 4e -- as well as the appeal of all those old school equipment lists -- is the "shopping" experience.
DCC RPG seems to be veering appreciably away from 'the rpg experience" of the past decade or so. (This is a good thing.) So excising 'shopping' sounds just wonderful.

Especially if it's 'shopping for magic items in EnchantoMart.'

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Re: Experience

Post by smathis » Thu Feb 24, 2011 3:28 pm

Ogrepuppy wrote:DCC RPG seems to be veering appreciably away from 'the rpg experience" of the past decade or so. (This is a good thing.) So excising 'shopping' sounds just wonderful.

Especially if it's 'shopping for magic items in EnchantoMart.'
Here's hoping. Although you know you just forced Joseph and Harley's hand to include an Enchanto-Mart in there somewhere...
:)

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Re: Experience

Post by Ogrepuppy » Thu Feb 24, 2011 9:18 pm

I actually prefer they call it ArcanoMart--I just couldn't think up the name fast enough earlier tonight. :D

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Re: Experience

Post by GnomeBoy » Thu Feb 24, 2011 10:25 pm

Earlier tonight I walked into IllusioMart, and came away with nothing. :oops:
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Re: Experience

Post by Ogrepuppy » Fri Feb 25, 2011 5:11 am

I left NecroMart early--it was dead in there.

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Re: Experience

Post by Ogrepuppy » Fri Feb 25, 2011 5:31 am

I never go to ConjuMart--it comes to me!

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Re: Experience

Post by Harley Stroh » Fri Feb 25, 2011 6:35 am

They'll be here all week, folks. And please remember to tip your waiters and waitresses.

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Re: Experience

Post by Hamakto » Fri Feb 25, 2011 6:59 am

Let me share with you the XP system we devised for our group. It is fairly simplistic, but it does not necessarily match the reality of playing.

In our campaign it takes 10 points to make a level. (we play once per month)

you get:
1 point for: showing up and being ready to play on time (*** since we play Sat AM, we did this to encourage early arrivals)
1 point for: actively playing in the session (no sleeping on the couch and having us to wake you up to roll you combat dice and you have to attend at least half the scheduled session to get it)
1 point for: actively RPing your character in the session

That means that everyone can make 3 points for showing up, participating and RPing. On a Saturday AM being hung over can be bad for your characters XP.

In addition to those fixed points, there is a bonus point for each session. This bonus point is split up into two parts. We do a secret ballot at the end of each session where people vote on who they thought was the BEST RPer and the BEST game players (i.e. cool tactics, etc). The winner of each of those votes gets 1/2 XP. So if you win both, you get a full bonus point. When voting, you are supposed to be a short note on WHY you voted for them.

We also have the ability for a DM to hand out bonus points at their discretionary if the party did something momentous. (bonus XP for finishing the adventure arc, etc).

Since we require 10 points to make a level you will get a level about every 3 sessions. No matter what the adventure entailed. If you spend most of the session in town RPing, finding information in the library, etc... and had a fight or two... you still get the same XP as a dungeon crawl. This was done by us for several reason:

1. Promote RP: We are there to enjoy ourselves. Human nature wants to improve on character so it provide a steady growth to the characters.
2. Missed Sessions: If you miss the dungeon crawl session, you would miss all the XP from it. This levels it out to keep the characters near the same levels.
3. Got rid of annoying XP charts. :)
4. Keeps all the characters who attend in the same level range... you have to miss quite a few sessions to fall far behind the party.
5. Prevents going monster hunting to just get that last 200xp to get a level. You get your XP when you get it.

To be honest, the voting for best game play and RPer was the best part of the XP system. It is surprising how well that was received and the comments come with it. It has been a very positive thing for our group.

I know this probably will not make the DCC RPG as it is a far departure from other game systems, but it works for us.
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Re: Experience

Post by smathis » Sat Feb 26, 2011 6:35 pm

Hamakto wrote:I know this probably will not make the DCC RPG as it is a far departure from other game systems, but it works for us.
I think that's a great system, Hamakto. I try it for my regular group if I get a chance. Thanks for sharing!

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Re: Experience

Post by tovokas » Sat Feb 26, 2011 10:52 pm

Hamakto wrote:Let me share with you the XP system we devised for our group. It is fairly simplistic, but it does not necessarily match the reality of playing...
I agree this sounds like an excellent system: it rewards all the good things you want to reward without bogging down in lots of number crunching.

Also, speaking of things discussed above, linking XP and gold never made much sense to me, even back in the 70's. (I realize it sounds like there's deeper thought going into the DCC RPG than the classic 1 for 1 of days gone by.) Philosophically I never felt comfortable as a DM that a character would advance quicker from finding a 2000gp gem than one worth 1000gp. And overly generous (or stingy) treasure amounts often led to characters sprinting ahead, or lagging behind. Of course, you could manage all that by being extremely careful with how you doled out treasure, but that seems to go against the boom-and-bust, off-the-cuff vibe of the new system.

Finally, having differing xp charts for differing classes would seem to require a fairly strict accounting of experience, since play balance issues would now be involved. I'm sure lots of folks like tallying everything up, but it's been many moons since my groups have been all that exact about experience. :)
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Re: Experience

Post by goodmangames » Sat Feb 26, 2011 11:51 pm

Hamakto wrote:Let me share with you the XP system we devised for our group. It is fairly simplistic, but it does not necessarily match the reality of playing.
That's a very cool system. I think DCC RPG will have to veer a different direction, if only because Conan never got experience for showing up on time, but in terms of "real world application" I really like the system you've outlined.
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Re: Experience

Post by finarvyn » Sun Feb 27, 2011 8:14 am

goodmangames wrote:Conan never got experience for showing up on time
Now there is a t-shirt slogan just waiting to be printed! :lol:
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