Dream Team: New Old School vs. Old Old School

Post by **Harley Stroh** » Sat May 07, 2005 1:09 pm

This is philosophical question, not a "shopping for the next cover" question.

So you have folks like Roslof, Dee, Willingham and Otus. Old school, and some of my favorite gaming art.

Then you have the second generation TSR artists: Elmore, Easley, Holloway, Caldwell and Parkinson. (I spent the last hour going over Parkinson galleries ... that guy is simply amazing.)

In your estimation, are the second gen folks valid artists for "Dungeon Crawl Classics"? Are they "classic" enough? What is a classic artist?

BTW, Jason Edwards is only getting better each month. It's like we get to be around for his transformation from a "really good artist" to "one of the fantasy greats."

Deogolf · Post by **Deogolf** » Sat May 07, 2005 7:13 pm

I wouldn't put James Holloway in with the other guys. He was there with Roslof, Dee, etc. In fact, his first Dragon cover was #41 (1980) - not exactly the second generation. If you want to get technical, I would probably put the first generation as Trampier, Sutherland, LaForce.

I would put any of the 1ed AD&D/D&D artists in the Classic category. I have a slight bias towards Mr. Holloway (my #1 in this category). Let's not forget about Timothy Truman - he did quite a bit of stuff in the early days too!

Post by **Harley Stroh** » Sat May 07, 2005 8:41 pm

Nods. I had forgotten about those guys, but you're right.

I've always loved Tim Truman's work, especially in some of the Choose Your Own adventure books.

And still, even though Easley's cover graced the later printings of 1st Ed Players, there is a stark difference between his work and the Otus/Roslof styles. Same for the Parkinson ...

http://www.candlekeep.com/images/products/9168.jpg

is a 1st Edition work. Does it have a Classic feel?

I'm willing to accept that I'm wrong ... and start looking forward to Parkinson/Elmore covers!

:):)

Deogolf · Post by **Deogolf** » Sun May 08, 2005 7:20 am

I have to agree...Parkinson does some really great stuff when it comes to his color illos. His black & white stuff - I'm not so sure. But, he's a must have when it comes to covers (Elemental Evil, H-series, To Find A King, and on & on)!! His Kingsgate art book is outstanding!

Elmore and Easley are definites too. I especially like Easley's black & white stuff!! I always like his Drelzna pic in S4 - Lost Caverns!

Unfortunately, no one knows where Mr. Trampier went off to and Mr. Sutherland's health is poor (from what I heard, terminal

). I'm not sure what happened to Dave LaForce.

Any of these guys would be great for the DCC line!

Brer Jackalope · Post by **Brer Jackalope** » Mon May 09, 2005 2:16 pm

Thanks for the props Harley, they're always very much appreciated!

I really consider it an honor to be mentioned in the same post as so many of my favorite illustrators, people I've idolized for such a long time.

It's fantastic that Joseph has been able to corral so many of the 1st. edition artists for his modules. Seeing their work always takes me back to my 7th. grade cafeteria & the first time I cracked open the Player's Handbook! It feels great to see them back in their old element, as relevant as ever.

I'm looking forward to seeing the 2nd. edition veterans' take on the DCC line as well. I know there are certainly plenty of people out there who first experienced roleplaying during their tenure & will feel the same way about an Elmore cover as I do about an Erol Otus cover.

The more the merrier-it's all one big happy family as far as I'm concerned.

Sure wish Mr. Trampier would turn up though, that would officially kick ass in my opinion.

Post by **goodmangames** » Wed May 18, 2005 8:31 pm

If any of you guys ever corral me for a beer at a con, ask me about Trampier. Someone I know recently spent several weeks searching through midwestern towns... and finally tracked him down. It's a great story with a sad ending; he absolutely refuses to return to fantasy illustration.

Post by **Harley Stroh** » Thu May 19, 2005 7:22 am

If any of you guys ever corral me for a beer at a con, ask me about Trampier. Someone I know recently spent several weeks searching through midwestern towns... and finally tracked him down. It's a great story with a sad ending; he absolutely refuses to return to fantasy illustration.

Yow. *Starts scrounging for beer money.*

Deogolf · Post by **Deogolf** » Thu May 19, 2005 9:13 am

Harley Stroh wrote:
If any of you guys ever corral me for a beer at a con, ask me about Trampier. Someone I know recently spent several weeks searching through midwestern towns... and finally tracked him down. It's a great story with a sad ending; he absolutely refuses to return to fantasy illustration.
Yow. *Starts scrounging for beer money.*

I'm with Harley! Saving my nickels as we speak!

Sorry to hear that he won't do any artwork!

I thought WORMY was one funny comic. Plus, his other stuff was some of the best around!

Deogolf · Post by **Deogolf** » Tue May 24, 2005 5:45 am

I was going thru some old Dragon magazines (1980/81) and noticed some artwork done by Todd Lockwood. Would that classify him as a 1ed artists? Although he's more connected with the 3rd Ed movement, he did do some work earlier on. Granted, I don't recall him doing any module artwork - just a thought.

Also, I agree with Harley. I think Jason Edwards' work definitely fits in with the "Old School" feel. I tip my hat to him! Very nice artwork!!

derekstaff · Post by **derekstaff** » Wed Jun 08, 2005 9:45 am

goodmangames wrote:If any of you guys ever corral me for a beer at a con, ask me about Trampier. Someone I know recently spent several weeks searching through midwestern towns... and finally tracked him down. It's a great story with a sad ending; he absolutely refuses to return to fantasy illustration.

Hi! My name is Derek, and I started role playing at eight with a couple of friends who I believe used the first generation D&D set. I myself soon purchased the second generation (blue basic and red expert books), eventually graduating to 1st gen AD&D. As I got older, I didn't care for the gaming system (classes seemed to restrictive to me), and so I moved on to other rpgs. I eventually fell out of gaming altogether in college, but I've sporadically kept up with the industry over the years.

I'm a designer and illustrator, and I remember with great fondness the "Old School" artists. The new guys were and are certainly more polished (and I particularly like Parkinson--he is one of the few fantasy artists whose outdoor paintings really FEEL outdoors), but there is something special about the old guys--a verve with which they broke the ground in which rpgs grew. Because of this, I treasure my old manuals and modules.

I love Dee, Roslof, and Willingham (Otus is alright). But my real passion is for Trampier. His wood etching style illustrations were so different from anything else I'd seen. The giant races, the wyvern, the homonculus, the lich, the displacer beast, the leucrotta--all fantastic! And his skill with color he exhibited in "Wormy," particularly the later strips, were equally as stunning. His disappearance was so frustrating.

It seems once a year I wax nostalgic for the art of my youth, and I Google Trampier in hopes of new info. I was thrilled to see that somebody had actually tracked DAT down! So I joined this board solely in the hope of learning more.

What do you say, Goodman? I'm afraid I'll never attend a Con, so is there any chance I could convince you to spill the beans here? At least an abbreviated version? If not, could you at least let us know if he has kept up his art in any field, and if there is anywhere we can go to view it?

Thanks so much!

Post by **goodmangames** » Sat Jun 11, 2005 8:01 pm

From what I've been told, DAT no longer does any sort of fantasy illustration. He is supposed to be very, very bitter about his treatment at the hands of TSR, and made a point of leaving behind everything associated with that. It's very unfortunate.

In other news, I recently made contact with Jim Roslof. If things work out, I think that his work will soon start appearing in the DCC's!

Deogolf · Post by **Deogolf** » Mon Jun 13, 2005 11:25 am

goodmangames wrote:From what I've been told, DAT no longer does any sort of fantasy illustration. He is supposed to be very, very bitter about his treatment at the hands of TSR, and made a point of leaving behind everything associated with that. It's very unfortunate.

In other news, I recently made contact with Jim Roslof. If things work out, I think that his work will soon start appearing in the DCC's!

Greetings Joseph!

Outstanding! That is some great news indeed! (Mr. Roslof, that is!)

It will be a treat to see his artwork again! It's been quite some time!

Post by **Harley Stroh** » Wed Jun 22, 2005 9:55 am

It would be GREAT to see more Rosolf work ...

... and I'm going to Gen Con for the sole purpose of hearing the Trampier story.

derekstaff · Post by **derekstaff** » Wed Jun 22, 2005 10:53 am

goodmangames wrote:From what I've been told, DAT no longer does any sort of fantasy illustration.

Does he do any sort of illustration, commercial art, or art available to the public of any kind?

Good news about Roslof, by the way.

Post by **goodmangames** » Sat Jul 02, 2005 5:17 pm

derekstaff wrote:
goodmangames wrote:From what I've been told, DAT no longer does any sort of fantasy illustration.
Does he do any sort of illustration, commercial art, or art available to the public of any kind?

Not that I know of.