Goodman Games

Done and done!

Harley,

Are you planning on crafting a module dealing with the Mountain King?

An adventure or series of adventures based around the party sneaking through the lair of the Mountain King would be swell.

I have visions of Bilbo & the dwarves deep in Misty Mountains.

Jedi,

I would love to! You and I have the same vision on the setting. (I grew up listening to the record version of the Hobbit ... over and over and over.)

I’m taking a 4 month break from writing DCCs to complete a novel for the White Wolf/World of Darkness contest, but after that, if Joseph is willing, I’m hoping to do a final Witch Queen/Mountain King module. As always, the Man in Chicago has veto power, so we’ll see what comes about.

Thank you for the request, BTW. That sort of thing always makes my day.

At first when I read this I thought you meant an adventure where an evil party was the villian instead of typical orcs, kobolds, and goblins. I thought that was a cool idea!

But I'm not interested in playing an evil party.

Which runs contrary to the "cover blurp" on every DCC, namely "no NPCs that aren't meant to be killed"...

Which is why I love this DCC so much! You did a great job there!

Also, there is a distinction between "selfishness" and "evil". Aside from religious interpretations, being selfish is not being evil--at least not in most circumstances. So, that Han Solo character was only looking out for himself... but he had a "heart of gold", so to speak. I have such a character in my current gaming group, a CN rogue. He repeatedly cheated the other players for some treasure or item, making up cover stories and the like. I don't know yet how far this character would be willing to go if something REALLY valuable came along, but for now it is just plain fun to see him doing the things that he does. I do have some trouble with his playing of the alignment (CN), but all in all his roguishness really adds to the gaming experience, mainly because it doesn't disrupt the game for everone else.

As for gamemastering a really EVIL group... well, I'd go with JediOre. It wouldn't do for me. I do have no quarrel with darker shades of grey, but outright evil parties would be a no-no to me. Stories need a sort of moral handle by which to judge the actions of NPCs and PCs alike. There would be no point in playing a mercenary force in service of some demonic entity that just wants to pillage, plunder, rape and burn their way through the countryside. Or, to give another example, a demonic PC that only plans on disrupting the rest of the party and kill them off.

It would be okay though (and was already thought up by me and some fellow players) to portray a band of, say, kobold characters -- lowest of the lower henchmen to some powerful villain. I think it would be really funny in trying to gain the favor of the "master villain" by tricking or backstabbing your fellow kobolds while at the same time trying to stick together to get that awfully important job done they were ordered to do!
But then again, this would only do for a one-shot adventure. I can hardly see this concept work for a campaign or even prolonged play.

Phew. Okay, that was a long post. Thanks for reading!

Talk about a blast from the past. I'd forgot about this thread. It had been dead over a year.

What's old is new again?

Sometimes? That's why I'm the DM.

MWHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

A year ago February, at DunDraCon 30, a company familiar to you all hosted the running of Iron Crypt of the Heretics. I signed up, and on the morning, it turned out the other players were all a group that played regularly. They had convinced the GM that they wanted to play ~evil characters~ [cue spooky music]. And there I was playing a LG(!) fighter while they had, IIRC a necromancer, an assassin, a blood-hungry dwarf and I forget the last one.... I figured I'd just shine the evil on, since it wasn't a campaign, just a one off game. Wasn't worth getting into the interparty politics, but I wasn't 'going over' either. Figured I'd just roleplay that we were lumped together to fight a greater evil....

But, essentially, what evil meant to them was they were playing bad-ass adventurers in black armor, who didn't smile, didn't do 'nice', didn't bathe, and could sneer at folks while they helped them, etc. Basically (and I don't think this was conscious on their part) they wanted to project evil, even if they were helping folks and fighting (real) evil. It was 'evil lite'.

So if somebody is looking for an evil module, maybe we need a better definition of terms first.... Or else just direct them to Wicked Fantasy Factory output first....

G.

If done right, an "evil" DCC might be fun! If the PCs were traditionally goblinesque and were misunderstood adventurers. Being chased by an angry mob, overzealous paladins and clerics looking to wipe the world's "evil" away, etc.

Also, aren't demons and devils technically at odds based on their alignments? If you're a devil character--you're essentially a flawed/fallen angel. It might be interesting to see some PCs trying to get back in the good graces of lawful aligned gods while simultaneously avoiding extermination from heroes, good angels, and even demons.

The most obvious (to me anyway) would be a dragon who's dodging dragonslayers.

Possible inspirations:

Constantine
Hellboy
Elphaba from Wicked by Gregory McGuire
Spike from Buffy the Vampire Slayer
Drako from Dragoheart

Wow, this thread just refuses to die!

Ramone, I've said my peace about players playing evil races, but I'd love to see this thread get some play again. This was one of the hottest topics on the Goodman boards back in '06.

If I remember correctly, there is a companion thread to this one. Harley got wound up pretty tight. Had to do with Cyberpunk or something. Harley, do you remeber the thread?

Ramone, as to your references, I don't know about any of them so I can't give you an informed response. The concept of a devil trying to make up for his past sins could be an interesting campaign, but I think the devil would be better suited as an NPC who has enlisted the PCs to both guide it morally and protect it physically. Perhaps a weak devil like an imp?

I killed this thread once... Don't make me do it again...!

Ha, I didn't realize I touched a nerve! In all seriousness though, I can understand the reticence to playing evil characters. I can't say that I'm looking to play a baddie myself. However, a group of condemned ex-heroes who are trying to redeem themselves has enormous story potential, and--I think--can be more interesting than your average hack-n-slash.

I'd caution against making PCs evil aligned for too long. But if it were say, a Halloween adventure, or a short-term campaign, it really help invigorate a group with some new play techniques.

If course, I could be blowing hot air!

Still, fun to consider.

Sounds like a lot of fun, actually.

Hmm. Maybe it's time to write a homebrew campaign...

It's always fun to be every once in awhile. I like the one shot Halloween adventure idea the best. You shouldn't have to worry about a campaign. Put a group of evil PC's together and after the dust clears there usually is only one left standing.

Hmm.. it doesn't stand out. I'll try a search, but nothing comes immediately to mind. (Although the Cyberpunk part rings true. )

//H

Well, I'm no Harley, but the machinations of the Mountain King figure pretty heavily into the two DCCs I just wrote, the follow-ups to Forges of the Mountain King and Wyvern Mountain.

That Mountain King? He's a bad person.

SUH-WEEEET!!!!!

That's great you're writing more 4E DCCs. I love Castle Whiterock. You and Chris Doyle are two of my fave DCC writers, along with Andrew Hind and Mike Fergeson.

I want to see lots more adventures from you four next year!!!!!

You picked some of my favorites as well.

I've been lucky enough to work with Doyle and Ferguson on several projects (mostly tournament mods), including some stuff that's currently in development.

Andrew Hind's Aerie of the Crow God was the 2nd DCC I ever picked up, and I've been hooked since.

I'm glad you're enjoying Castle Whiterock! When it's all said and done, that's what matters.

[[SOAPBOX]]
But when I say I'm no Harley, I mean it. When I first read Into the Wilds, it was as instantly familiar as would be Night's Dark Terror, War Rafts of Kron, or Rahasia, but new at the same time. For my money, no adventure, by any author, has pulled that off as perfectly as ITW.
[[END SOAPBOX]]

When I ran Sellswords of Punjar none of the pc's were "good."

Two were neutral sellsword/mercenary types, one a minotaur rogue, the other a tiefling warlock. The other two were actually Thieves Guild members, a doppleganger wizard (evil) and a female half-elf cleric of the Raven Queen (wizards bodyguard).

Quick threadjack. Thanks for the kind words, Adrian, but to be clear to everyone else, the great strength about the DCC line is that all the different authors have a unique style of their own. I envy the ideas that Adrian, Chris, Mike, Aeryn, Andrew and the rest come up with, because I can never think that way. And so long as we keep convincing them to write adventures, I can be sure to have a wide selection of cool and unique DCCs to throw at my players. I love their DCCs because they are always full ideas that I couldn't have come up with on my own.

[/threadjack]

//H

Sweet.

//H

Very cool. I'll be interested in seeing how this pans out. I understand the second new 4ed module deals with the Mountain King but the module is for 1st level characters. Does the King appear in it at all? I was amazed when I read somewhere the Mountain King is a dwarf! I was not expecting that!

Hmm....I need to check my Legacy copy. It should (have been) in there somewhere...

//H

Harley, to the best of my ability, I don't have the modules in front of me, I don't believe the race of the Mountain King is expressed in either DCC #17 or #17.5. I was guessing orc since the elite troops sent to the Forge were orc. The only thing I believe mentioned about the Mountain King in the above mentioned modules was that he lost an eye to the Witch Queen.