DragonMech Questions

Medieval fantasy mechs powered by steam, magic, or the labor of a thousand slaves.

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walrusjester
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Post by walrusjester » Tue Feb 15, 2005 9:32 am

On the Shar Thizdic front, I wrote the Legion chapter for Second Age Of Walkers. I assumed that he'd heard about Parilus et al. well after the fact. In my head, he's a fit 40-something.

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Post by MagusRogue » Tue Feb 15, 2005 12:28 pm

hey, I have a question. I'm confused as to just how often do citymechs stop walking. From what I read on Nedderpick, it says it frequently stops to let on visitors and traders, for supplies and other... necessicities. However, i remember reading in the mech section that citymechs don't stop because they're too hard to get going again. So... how often do city-mechs honestly stop, for how long, and how long does it take to get them going again?
AAAAAAAAANNNNNNNNNNDDDDDDDDDDD this rant's done.

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Post by Philip Reed » Tue Feb 15, 2005 1:29 pm

walrusjester wrote:On the Shar Thizdic front, I wrote the Legion chapter for Second Age Of Walkers. I assumed that he'd heard about Parilus et al. well after the fact. In my head, he's a fit 40-something.
I've been reading 2nd Age of Walkers lately and it's pretty good. Congrats on your work. And some of the art in the book's especially nice.

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Post by walrusjester » Wed Feb 16, 2005 7:20 am

I'll take "pretty good" -- thanks! If anything crosses the line into "super-genius," feel free to post it here. Credit also goes out to my co-authors who may or may not be on this board.

In my unofficial way, I'd say city-mechs don't stop, except for Tannanliel. Unless there's an emergency, it's just not worth the effort of restoking the furnaces and recalculating the leg placement and everything. A city-mech can just pace in a wide circle if it needs to stay in one place. Tannanliel and other non-steam mechs (like Sharlorn from the Mech Manual) don't have the same technical issues, so they can stop and start more easily. Necro-mechs in particular probably have an easy time with this, since it only takes one person to control the whole thing -- you don't need to relay orders among your crew or synchronize your actions, which you probably do even with animated mechs. You just will it, and stuff happens. Big necro-mechs are a very efficient choice.

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Post by MagusRogue » Wed Feb 16, 2005 8:03 am

thing is, nedderpik is said in its description that it stops frequently... Also, all the pictures of its hangerbays (especially the chapter picture infront of nedderpik's stats) has it stopped and just standing there, feet together. is this a contradition?
AAAAAAAAANNNNNNNNNNDDDDDDDDDDD this rant's done.

Philip Reed

Post by Philip Reed » Wed Feb 16, 2005 9:18 am

walrusjester wrote:I'll take "pretty good" -- thanks! If anything crosses the line into "super-genius," feel free to post it here.
Will do. :) So far, though, I haven't seen any coyotes.

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Post by goodmangames » Wed Feb 16, 2005 9:57 pm

MagusRogue wrote:thing is, nedderpik is said in its description that it stops frequently... Also, all the pictures of its hangerbays (especially the chapter picture infront of nedderpik's stats) has it stopped and just standing there, feet together. is this a contradition?
Some things aren't meant for an official explanation. :) It stops as often as you want it to. In my first campaign, I had Nedderpik stopping every week or so. It would park near a settlement, load up on supplies and other things as needed, and then pick up again. It usually didn't stop more than a few hours at a time. If you'd rather play it more as a constantly-in-motion situation, that's your call.
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Post by goodmangames » Wed Feb 16, 2005 10:05 pm

Mad Cat wrote:I have an issue about steam cannons and amplifiers/boilers.
Can I add an amplifier to a steam cannon/gun? The amplifier description says taht every form of energy can be used..so, even the kinetic energy of steam? I will say yes...
You can definitely add a boiler to a steam cannon.

As for an amplifier, reading the rules as written it might be a stretch. You'd get into the discussion of kinetic energy that's already happened in this thread. But personally, I think you should be able to. The point of an amplifier (and steam powers in general) is to give coglayers cool ways to soup up their gear. And now that I think about it, one of the players in my group actually added an amplifier to the steam cannon on their Magwagon before the final mech battle of Shardsfall Quest. It made sense at the time. You might want to call it something other than amplifier, or perhaps you'll have to explain it as a "kinetic energy magnifier"... but I think the spirit of steam powers is preserved by allowing souped up steam cannons.
Mad Cat wrote:And about boilers, if I add a boiler to a steam cannon/gun what effect will comw out? Double damage? (2d10) more shots? (+1 for every boiler).
Can you give me an *official* opinion?

Thanks for the help guys!
In my campaign they used the amplifier to increase the damage die. As long as it's balanced, you could make it whatever effect you wanted: more damage, higher range increment, whatever. I like MagusRogue's idea of increasing the rate of fire. That could get pretty powerful if it went faster than 1/round so you might want to cap rate of fire there. You could increase damage with the first amplifier/boiler, increase rate of fire with the second, and so on.

Um, so there's a pretty vague official opinion. :) The goal is cool souped-up gear. As long as it's balanced, it'll work out.
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Post by goodmangames » Wed Feb 16, 2005 10:09 pm

mythfish wrote:A first level coglayer could easily have a steamgun with both an amplifier and a boiler on it, for 2d12 damage. That seems like a lot for first level.
In one of my campaigns, 1st-level Rangus the half-orc barbarian could routinely do 1d12+9 points of damage! And of course he had tons of hit points. A coglayer maxing out everything he has to do 2d12 with a steam gun is pretty powerful, but other classes can definitely match that.
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Post by Guest » Sat Feb 19, 2005 2:06 am

Thank you Joseph. Now I'm a happy coglayer! :D
A final question: Steam cannons (not steam guns) can fire one shot/turn or one shot for every attack the coglayer/mech jockey has?
Assuming he's riding a mech!

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Post by Mad Cat » Sat Feb 19, 2005 2:12 am

Anonymous wrote:Thank you Joseph. Now I'm a happy coglayer! :D
A final question: Steam cannons (not steam guns) can fire one shot/turn or one shot for every attack the coglayer/mech jockey has?
Assuming he's riding a mech!
Sorry, I forgot to log in :wink:
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Post by MagusRogue » Sat Feb 19, 2005 12:29 pm

basically, what I was thinking, joseph, is that multiple boilers on a steam gun lets you have multiple attacks IF you are capable of multiple attacks.

For instance, a coglayer with rapid shot and a bab of +7/+2 can take 3 attacks. To be able to make a full attack with a steam gun, however, he would need 3 boilers. If he only had 2 boilers, he could only make 2 attacks per round. If he added a 4th boiler, he'd still only be capable of 3 attacks per round, however, because he himself does not have the capacity to attack more than 3 times per round. You'd also need rapid reload or an automator to constantly pop a bullet down the barrel, though.

See my logic?
AAAAAAAAANNNNNNNNNNDDDDDDDDDDD this rant's done.

Guest

Post by Guest » Sun Feb 20, 2005 6:07 am

I think that a character can always make all is attacks with steam cannon (because they don't have wait a turn like the guns).
So if I have 3 attacks\round I can fire 3 times, even without boilers...like a bow-equipped character!
However I agree with the automator, some sort of reloading device is nedeed..

Glororhan

A question!

Post by Glororhan » Mon Feb 21, 2005 7:27 am

I realized I should probably post this question here instead of on a seperate thread, so here goes!

I have a few questions about Mech "Unarmed" Strikes.

Firstly, if a mech has two fists free, does that count as Two Weapons for the purpose of using the Mechidexterous Feat?

Secondly, if someone uses the Mechidexterous Feat, and attacks with two melee weapons, does he do only one half strength damage with the second weapon, like a person does when fighting with two weapons?

I'd be interested in hearing what everyone thinks!

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Re: A question!

Post by Reese » Tue Feb 22, 2005 6:02 pm

Glororhan wrote:Firstly, if a mech has two fists free, does that count as Two Weapons for the purpose of using the Mechidexterous Feat?
yes
Glororhan wrote:Secondly, if someone uses the Mechidexterous Feat, and attacks with two melee weapons, does he do only one half strength damage with the second weapon, like a person does when fighting with two weapons?
no
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Post by goodmangames » Mon Feb 28, 2005 6:14 pm

Anonymous wrote:A final question: Steam cannons (not steam guns) can fire one shot/turn or one shot for every attack the coglayer/mech jockey has?
Yes. Unlike steam guns, steam cannons aren't limited in how many times per round they can fire.
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Post by goodmangames » Mon Feb 28, 2005 6:16 pm

MagusRogue wrote:basically, what I was thinking, joseph, is that multiple boilers on a steam gun lets you have multiple attacks IF you are capable of multiple attacks.

For instance, a coglayer with rapid shot and a bab of +7/+2 can take 3 attacks. To be able to make a full attack with a steam gun, however, he would need 3 boilers. If he only had 2 boilers, he could only make 2 attacks per round. If he added a 4th boiler, he'd still only be capable of 3 attacks per round, however, because he himself does not have the capacity to attack more than 3 times per round. You'd also need rapid reload or an automator to constantly pop a bullet down the barrel, though.

See my logic?
I definitely see the logic! I think it's a cool idea. It's a way to use steam powers to enhance a coglayer's fighting ability with steam-powered weapons, which is exactly what the steam power rules are about. I wish I had thought of it. :)
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Post by MagusRogue » Mon Feb 28, 2005 7:38 pm

goodmangames wrote:I definitely see the logic! I think it's a cool idea. It's a way to use steam powers to enhance a coglayer's fighting ability with steam-powered weapons, which is exactly what the steam power rules are about. I wish I had thought of it. :)
That's what I'm hear for! I'm always more than glad to help out when I can. :wink:
AAAAAAAAANNNNNNNNNNDDDDDDDDDDD this rant's done.

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Post by Sword Guy » Tue Mar 01, 2005 9:09 pm

So, I've got a question . . .

How are enchantments on steam powers handled?

For instance, if I have a +1 ghost touch drill mounted on a +2 speed iron arm, what qualities stack? Which don't? Do I effectively attack with a +2 ghost touch speed drill? Do I attack with a +1 ghost touch drill and then get another attack with the +2 speed iron arm? Do I attack with a +1 ghost touch speed drill?

Or, if I have a +1 ghost touch drill combined with a +2 keen drill, what happens then? Does it either have keen or ghost touch, but not both at once? What is the enhancement bonus? Same thing for, say, amplifiers and spark generators. Can you apply the shock quality to an amplifier, causing the attack to deal 1d6 extra electricty damage? Can fuel for a pilot light be enhanced with the brilliant energy quality?

That's all I can think of for now, but I'll come up with more later. Steam powers are just one of those things where they cause so many more questions than they ought to, but that's just because they're awesome.
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Post by Reese » Thu Mar 03, 2005 3:23 am

Sword Guy wrote:So, I've got a question . . .

How are enchantments on steam powers handled?

For instance, if I have a +1 ghost touch drill mounted on a +2 speed iron arm, what qualities stack? Which don't? Do I effectively attack with a +2 ghost touch speed drill? Do I attack with a +1 ghost touch drill and then get another attack with the +2 speed iron arm? Do I attack with a +1 ghost touch speed drill?

Or, if I have a +1 ghost touch drill combined with a +2 keen drill, what happens then? Does it either have keen or ghost touch, but not both at once? What is the enhancement bonus? Same thing for, say, amplifiers and spark generators. Can you apply the shock quality to an amplifier, causing the attack to deal 1d6 extra electricty damage? Can fuel for a pilot light be enhanced with the brilliant energy quality?

That's all I can think of for now, but I'll come up with more later. Steam powers are just one of those things where they cause so many more questions than they ought to, but that's just because they're awesome.
the problems with getting a mage to enchant one of the infernal contraptions aside...

consider that most magical weapons are probalby granting you that bonus by way of improving the physical qualities of the weapon in some manner, ask yourself: what am i actually hitting with?

that and i would consider an iron arm to be an extra hand, and not subject to weapon enchants any more so than a monk's unarmed attack would be (but this is where you read my disclaimer ;) )
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Post by Sword Guy » Thu Mar 03, 2005 8:44 am

Reese wrote:consider that most magical weapons are probalby granting you that bonus by way of improving the physical qualities of the weapon in some manner, ask yourself: what am i actually hitting with?
That's the problem. If I enchant a drill with ghost touch and a second drill with keen, which one actually hits? They're both part of the same steam contraption, and they are both dealing damage. Also, something like the speed enchantment, put on an iron arm, would make the iron arm strike faster. Thus, it could be said that it would grant an extra attack, because the drills are coming in contact with the opponent more.
Reese wrote:that and i would consider an iron arm to be an extra hand, and not subject to weapon enchants any more so than a monk's unarmed attack would be
Well, in addition to the monk's unarmed attacks coming from bodily abilities, I gathered that you could not enchant a monk's weapons because they are so varied. Knees, fists, feet, elbows, head, forearms, shoulders . . . The list goes on and on. By comparison, steam powers are relatively simple and static.
Reese wrote:(but this is where you read my disclaimer ;) )
:) Yeah, I have to put in something like that soon. It goes for me as well.
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Post by Ken Hart » Thu Mar 03, 2005 10:34 am

Wow, good questions. Let me put my 10,000 quatloos on the table...
Sword Guy wrote:For instance, if I have a +1 ghost touch drill mounted on a +2 speed iron arm, what qualities stack? Which don't? Do I effectively attack with a +2 ghost touch speed drill? Do I attack with a +1 ghost touch drill and then get another attack with the +2 speed iron arm? Do I attack with a +1 ghost touch speed drill?
I agree with Reese that you must consider "what am I actually hitting with?" and I'll go further to say that you must consider intent vs. fact. That is, do you intend to attack with the steam power in question, or is the steam power involved simply because of the fact that it's attached to another steam power?

In the case of the +1 ghost touch drill mounted on a +2 speed iron arm, you intend to do damage with the drill. For purposes of penetrating an opponent's AC and bypassing any DR, the drill is what will be coming into contact with the opponent, so its bonuses are the only ones that would apply.

That said, we can't ignore the fact that the drill is mounted on a +2 speed iron arm, and the iron arm is what's actually moving. While its bonuses might not come into play, you can certainly make the argument that its speed special ability would. So if I had to choose, I'd go with your next-to-last idea: If you're doing a full-round attack, you get one attack with a +1 ghost touch drill and then get another one with the +2 speed iron arm.
Sword Guy wrote:Or, if I have a +1 ghost touch drill combined with a +2 keen drill, what happens then? Does it either have keen or ghost touch, but not both at once? What is the enhancement bonus? Same thing for, say, amplifiers and spark generators. Can you apply the shock quality to an amplifier, causing the attack to deal 1d6 extra electricty damage? Can fuel for a pilot light be enhanced with the brilliant energy quality?
The two drills are combined to make a single attack, so I'd say the bonuses would stack, just as if you were using a +1 flaming light crossbow with +2 bane (undead) bolts. Same for the amplifier and spark generator.

The difference between these examples and the first one is that these later examples are intended to work in unison when making an attack, while the drill in the first example just "happens to be" on the iron arm, and each one is capable of making a separate attack.

In reading this through, it sounds like I'm splitting hairs. :D Oh well, just my opinion. Your mileage may vary.

--Ken

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Post by MagusRogue (guest) » Thu Mar 03, 2005 4:49 pm

i don't know. I think, honestly, by their intent steam powers cannot be enchanted except on a temporary basis. Besides, this is getting into Steam Mage stuff, honestly.

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Post by Sword Guy » Thu Mar 03, 2005 7:39 pm

Yeah, but part of the problem is actually being a steam mage, and enchanting it. I can't enchant it without knowing how.

I have a question about the example given by you, Ken. I know that the special qualities of both the bolts and the crossbow stack, but the enhancement bonuses don't, right? I don't think enhancement bonuses stack, but I was just asking to be sure.

I think you're idea sounds right for the first example, Ken. For the second one, just checking here, I'd end up with a +2 ghost touch keen drill, right?
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Post by Reese » Fri Mar 04, 2005 4:24 am

Sword Guy wrote: That's the problem. If I enchant a drill with ghost touch and a second drill with keen, which one actually hits? They're both part of the same steam contraption, and they are both dealing damage. Also, something like the speed enchantment, put on an iron arm, would make the iron arm strike faster. Thus, it could be said that it would grant an extra attack, because the drills are coming in contact with the opponent more.
mm... i don;t think you can have miltiple enchants on a single weapon (device, in this case) wihtout considering the total cost, unless you have the seperate enchants on seperate 'heads' of the weapon (like most double weapons)

'combined' drill steam powers are a single drill bit of larger size(and with a larger engine capable of turning it), i would say you should consider the drill bit and drill power to be seperate entities for this purpose... the bit being a regular piece of metla shaped to cut stone,a nd the drill power being the engine designed to turn the bit at high speed (the drill bit power incorporating the cost of the actual bit into the construciton cost) and when you combine drill steam powers, you're really just harnessing two engines for the extra power needed to turn a larger bit (which you just happen to ahve on ahnd)

BTW, thanks for the idea, i'm going to build a quarterstaff with an augmented drill power on each end :D
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