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 Post subject: Questions after first play session
PostPosted: Mon May 12, 2008 12:25 pm 
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Wild-Eyed Zealot

Joined: Mon May 12, 2008 11:46 am
Posts: 58
We just played our first session of Eldritch, and love the system - it's the best I've ever seen for old-style dungeon crawling. But we do have a few questions about the rules - could someone please provide some clarifications?

1. On page 14: "His Specialization with the axe grants him +2 points to damage, and a +1 to Initiative in battle when using his one-handed combat axe." Does this mean that you don't get the harm bonus or initiative bonus from a weapon unless you have the Specialization in that weapon? If this is the case, then what is the benefit of using a sword over a dagger if you don't have the Specialization?

2. Traps: the core rulebook does not seem to explain exactly how traps, etc. work. Do you get to roll your ability (e.g. Reflexes) first, and then only if you fail, soak the damage on your Active Defense Pool (e.g. Dodge)? Or does the damage go straight to the Active Defense Pool with no roll? (Or is it just a roll with no chance to use ADP points?) If possible, can you please provide some examples?

3. Shields (page 63): Medium shields grant +1 to the armour check, and Deflect is calculated normally, and Large shields grant +2 to the armour check but impose a penalty of -50% to the Deflect ADP. So... what if you're not wearing armour? Do you have an effective armour of 1 or 2, or is the shield bonus simply lost? If so, what is the benefit of using a Medium or Large shield when not wearing armour?

4. Ranges (page 32): "Each weapon has its own short, medium and long-range statistics." Where are these listed?

5. Reflexes are used to calculate Evade, but not to calculate Dodge - but Reflexes has the Specialization 'Dodge'. This is confusing/counter-intuitive - are we missing something here?

6. Initiative bonus - while carrying a weapon with an initiative bonus, does a character get that initiative bonus when doing any action in combat, or only when attacking with the weapon? If not, it seems odd - a character simply running would act after someone attacking with a heavy weapon.

7. Strength of objects under total cover (page 32): "Total cover - subtracts 4 points and potential harm is applied to the inanimate object first as if it were an extra defense pool." Is a guideline provided anywhere for how much damage various objects could take before being destroyed?

Thanks in advance for your answers! I hope we don't seem too negative - despite these questions, we really enjoyed the system and look forward to playing it again. We just need to understand it a bit better first. :)

Lastly, a few requests that we think would allow people to better enjoy this system:
1. A bestiary, or at least a monster a week added to the wiki. This is a real drawback for us as players at the moment.
2. A short one-session adventure designed to showcase the mechanics and guide new groups through the system.


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 Post subject: Re: Questions after first play session
PostPosted: Mon May 12, 2008 2:25 pm 
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Wild-Eyed Zealot

Joined: Mon May 12, 2008 11:46 am
Posts: 58
More questions we remembered. :oops:

How should we deal with disarming and knockback/pushing in combat when using ERPS?


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 Post subject: Re: Questions after first play session
PostPosted: Mon May 12, 2008 3:14 pm 
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Wild-Eyed Zealot

Joined: Mon Apr 02, 2007 12:46 pm
Posts: 90
Ze Groupe wrote:
More questions we remembered. :oops:

How should we deal with disarming and knockback/pushing in combat when using ERPS?


We ran into that same situation and came to a very easy/swift solution to Pushing.
Instead of making a weapon attack, you may roll the ability: Feats of Strength > Pushing & Pulling > Push. The target makes an active opposition roll for: Feats of Strength > Pushing & Pulling > Brace. The target moves as many feet as the attacker beats his opposed roll by. E.g., attacker rolls a total of 8, while the target rolled 3. The target moves back 5 feet.

Since movement in ERP is abstract, you would probably not need rules for 'knockback' due to large weapon damage: it could just be narrated. However, if your players need to push an enemy over a cliff, this house rule works nicely. :D

Disarm could be a similiar opposed roll (perhaps Reflexes > Combat Reflexes).


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 Post subject: Re: Questions after first play session
PostPosted: Mon May 12, 2008 5:29 pm 
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Cold-Blooded Diabolist

Joined: Sat Sep 08, 2007 11:32 pm
Posts: 530
Hey...I'm just dropping in to say I will get to these questions ASAP. Right now I'm restricted to work computers or hotspots, so it's slow going...(it will get better for me in June, hopefully).

But fear not, I'm not going away! Stay tuned...


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 Post subject: Re: Questions after first play session
PostPosted: Tue May 13, 2008 2:39 am 
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Far-Sighted Wanderer

Joined: Wed May 07, 2008 9:19 am
Posts: 26
Location: Oxford, UK
Ze Groupe wrote:
1. On page 14: "His Specialization with the axe grants him +2 points to damage, and a +1 to Initiative in battle when using his one-handed combat axe." Does this mean that you don't get the harm bonus or initiative bonus from a weapon unless you have the Specialization in that weapon? If this is the case, then what is the benefit of using a sword over a dagger if you don't have the Specialization?

I believe that is the case - it's hidden in some text somewhere (sorry, don't have the book with me), but basically it seems that if you are just using Melee you just roll that as you are using brute force, natural talent, dexterity etc but you are not particularly good at that specific weapon. If you use Melee>Specialisation you also get the Initiative and Harm bonus, and if you use Melee>Specialisation>Mastery then you also get the Mastery DP bonus (on the weapon tables) while wielding that weapon.

Quote:
2. Traps: the core rulebook does not seem to explain exactly how traps, etc. work. Do you get to roll your ability (e.g. Reflexes) first, and then only if you fail, soak the damage on your Active Defense Pool (e.g. Dodge)? Or does the damage go straight to the Active Defense Pool with no roll? (Or is it just a roll with no chance to use ADP points?) If possible, can you please provide some examples?

Not sure, but I guess that you could do either, but treating a trap as Potential-Harm sounds sensible - but as your pools always refresh outside combat, unless the trap actually did Toughness damage you would be unharmed.

Quote:
3. Shields (page 63): Medium shields grant +1 to the armour check, and Deflect is calculated normally, and Large shields grant +2 to the armour check but impose a penalty of -50% to the Deflect ADP. So... what if you're not wearing armour? Do you have an effective armour of 1 or 2, or is the shield bonus simply lost? If so, what is the benefit of using a Medium or Large shield when not wearing armour?

As you say, I think you get the +1/+2 as armour, and you still get to use Deflect pools to avoid harm, which you wouldn't without the shield.

Quote:
4. Ranges (page 32): "Each weapon has its own short, medium and long-range statistics." Where are these listed?

I don't recall seeing these listed anywhere.

Quote:
5. Reflexes are used to calculate Evade, but not to calculate Dodge - but Reflexes has the Specialization 'Dodge'. This is confusing/counter-intuitive - are we missing something here?

I agree, that did seem odd to me too.

Quote:
6. Initiative bonus - while carrying a weapon with an initiative bonus, does a character get that initiative bonus when doing any action in combat, or only when attacking with the weapon? If not, it seems odd - a character simply running would act after someone attacking with a heavy weapon.

Not sure, I would think for simplicity you would get the bonus all the time (if you have Melee>Specialisation etc). It does seem a bit odd that you can move faster if you are holding a sword etc, but in terms of simplicity it might be easier.

Quote:
7. Strength of objects under total cover (page 32): "Total cover - subtracts 4 points and potential harm is applied to the inanimate object first as if it were an extra defense pool." Is a guideline provided anywhere for how much damage various objects could take before being destroyed?

Again, don't remember seeing these anywhere.

Quote:
Lastly, a few requests that we think would allow people to better enjoy this system:
1. A bestiary, or at least a monster a week added to the wiki. This is a real drawback for us as players at the moment.
2. A short one-session adventure designed to showcase the mechanics and guide new groups through the system.

Seconded, these would be very useful additions.

cheers,

Mark


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 Post subject: Re: Questions after first play session
PostPosted: Tue May 13, 2008 4:19 pm 
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Cold-Blooded Diabolist

Joined: Sat Sep 08, 2007 11:32 pm
Posts: 530
Quote:
I believe that is the case - it's hidden in some text somewhere (sorry, don't have the book with me), but basically it seems that if you are just using Melee you just roll that as you are using brute force, natural talent, dexterity etc but you are not particularly good at that specific weapon. If you use Melee>Specialisation you also get the Initiative and Harm bonus, and if you use Melee>Specialisation>Mastery then you also get the Mastery DP bonus (on the weapon tables) while wielding that weapon.


That is correct.

Quote:
Not sure, but I guess that you could do either, but treating a trap as Potential-Harm sounds sensible - but as your pools always refresh outside combat, unless the trap actually did Toughness damage you would be unharmed.


Yes, traps deliver Potential-Harm. Some traps may bypass armor, or disallow certain types of active defense. Because ADPs refresh so quickly outside of combat, traps will usually have deadlier Potential-Harm. Certain traps can work like spells, mirroring Effects (like poison). This deserves it's own article, methinks.

Quote:
As you say, I think you get the +1/+2 as armour, and you still get to use Deflect pools to avoid harm, which you wouldn't without the shield.


Yes, but small shields offer no passive protection. Just a +50% boost to Melee basic + Shield Specialization branch MRV total.

Quote:
4. Ranges (page 32): "Each weapon has its own short, medium and long-range statistics." Where are these listed?
I don't recall seeing these listed anywhere.


I am going to ask my "weapons expert" (randy) to tackle that one. He must have eaten the secret notes on ranges.

Quote:
5. Reflexes are used to calculate Evade, but not to calculate Dodge - but Reflexes has the Specialization 'Dodge'. This is confusing/counter-intuitive - are we missing something here?


Probably a bad choice of wording, given the semantic difficulty between Evade and Dodge. Just remember, Evade is for close-in melee, and Dodge is used against ranged attacks.

Quote:
6. Initiative bonus - while carrying a weapon with an initiative bonus, does a character get that initiative bonus when doing any action in combat, or only when attacking with the weapon? If not, it seems odd - a character simply running would act after someone attacking with a heavy weapon.


I apply the initiative bonus at the beginning of each round. The character's weapon must be chosen at the beginning of a round to get the initiative bonus. Otherwise he'll act on his base Reflexes ranked phase.

Quote:
7. Strength of objects under total cover (page 32): "Total cover - subtracts 4 points and potential harm is applied to the inanimate object first as if it were an extra defense pool." Is a guideline provided anywhere for how much damage various objects could take before being destroyed?


I don't have such a listing right now. I have to think about how some objects might allow things to blow through in certain spots...like arrows through thin wooden doors. Other things might be so tough that assigning hit points might almost be silly. As GM I've always made it up on the spot, depending on the circumstance, but I can see how a little chart for guidelines would be good.

Quote:
Lastly, a few requests that we think would allow people to better enjoy this system:
1. A bestiary, or at least a monster a week added to the wiki. This is a real drawback for us as players at the moment.
2. A short one-session adventure designed to showcase the mechanics and guide new groups through the system.

Seconded, these would be very useful additions. [/quote]

I would like to see a full bestiary/treasure book published, but the campaign setting DOES have critters presented in it that are specific to that world. For common beasts, check out the free wiki. Once I get internet back in June (hopefully), at least access I don't have to travel a distance to get to, I'll start adding some more generic material. A real "monster manual" would be treated in much greater detail, of course.


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 Post subject: Re: Questions after first play session
PostPosted: Thu May 15, 2008 4:31 am 
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Wild-Eyed Zealot

Joined: Mon May 12, 2008 11:46 am
Posts: 58
Quote:
Quote:
Not sure, but I guess that you could do either, but treating a trap as Potential-Harm sounds sensible - but as your pools always refresh outside combat, unless the trap actually did Toughness damage you would be unharmed.


Yes, traps deliver Potential-Harm. Some traps may bypass armor, or disallow certain types of active defense. Because ADPs refresh so quickly outside of combat, traps will usually have deadlier Potential-Harm. Certain traps can work like spells, mirroring Effects (like poison). This deserves it's own article, methinks.


Cool, we'll look forward to it.

Quote:
Quote:
As you say, I think you get the +1/+2 as armour, and you still get to use Deflect pools to avoid harm, which you wouldn't without the shield.


Yes, but small shields offer no passive protection. Just a +50% boost to Melee basic + Shield Specialization branch MRV total.


But if this is the case, then what is the point of carrying a shield when not wearing armour. Why does the shield give you an effective armour of say you had D6 armour, the shield gives you 2 to 7 instead of 1 to 6 (and that would only increase with bigger shields), but when you're not wearing armour, suddenly the shield stops preventing those points of damage?

Quote:
Quote:
4. Ranges (page 32): "Each weapon has its own short, medium and long-range statistics." Where are these listed?
I don't recall seeing these listed anywhere.


I am going to ask my "weapons expert" (randy) to tackle that one. He must have eaten the secret notes on ranges.


Cheers, good to know we weren't insane in not being able to find it.

Quote:
Quote:
5. Reflexes are used to calculate Evade, but not to calculate Dodge - but Reflexes has the Specialization 'Dodge'. This is confusing/counter-intuitive - are we missing something here?


Probably a bad choice of wording, given the semantic difficulty between Evade and Dodge. Just remember, Evade is for close-in melee, and Dodge is used against ranged attacks.


Fair enough, just used to playing games which are very specific about wording, with abilities that negate any other abilities that use the word 'Target' for example, so this seemed a bit odd.

Quote:
Quote:
6. Initiative bonus - while carrying a weapon with an initiative bonus, does a character get that initiative bonus when doing any action in combat, or only when attacking with the weapon? If not, it seems odd - a character simply running would act after someone attacking with a heavy weapon.


I apply the initiative bonus at the beginning of each round. The character's weapon must be chosen at the beginning of a round to get the initiative bonus. Otherwise he'll act on his base Reflexes ranked phase.


and

Quote:
Quote:
I believe that is the case - it's hidden in some text somewhere (sorry, don't have the book with me), but basically it seems that if you are just using Melee you just roll that as you are using brute force, natural talent, dexterity etc but you are not particularly good at that specific weapon. If you use Melee>Specialisation you also get the Initiative and Harm bonus, and if you use Melee>Specialisation>Mastery then you also get the Mastery DP bonus (on the weapon tables) while wielding that weapon.


That is correct.


But the thing here is, there are a couple of issues unanswered;
A) What if you have two different weapons, which initiative bonus do you count.
B) Why does carrying a combat axe make you act first (thus implying that you are faster) when doing something non-axe related like climbing a ladder, over someone who has no weapons and is therefore unencumbered.

We have a suggestion, as all initiative bonuses range from 1 to 3; invert them and make them penalties. So a Dagger, which was a +3 becomes a -1 (the inversion is important, otherwise it makes a Sword faster than a Knife). Then make it so that when you use a weapon without specialisation in it's family, you have to take the penalty to initiative. But as soon as you specialise, the penalty is gone. This provides specialisation incentive, and more accurately symbolises both unfamiliarity with a untrained weapon AND that someone not carrying a weapon is not going to be slowed down by it and is therefore faster than someone who does have a weapon.

Quote:
Quote:
7. Strength of objects under total cover (page 32): "Total cover - subtracts 4 points and potential harm is applied to the inanimate object first as if it were an extra defense pool." Is a guideline provided anywhere for how much damage various objects could take before being destroyed?


I don't have such a listing right now. I have to think about how some objects might allow things to blow through in certain spots...like arrows through thin wooden doors. Other things might be so tough that assigning hit points might almost be silly. As GM I've always made it up on the spot, depending on the circumstance, but I can see how a little chart for guidelines would be good.


Cheers, such a chart would be handy, just to provide baselines so that we're not assigning anything game-breaking, or ineffectually pointless.

Quote:
Quote:
Lastly, a few requests that we think would allow people to better enjoy this system:
1. A bestiary, or at least a monster a week added to the wiki. This is a real drawback for us as players at the moment.
2. A short one-session adventure designed to showcase the mechanics and guide new groups through the system.

Seconded, these would be very useful additions.


I would like to see a full bestiary/treasure book published, but the campaign setting DOES have critters presented in it that are specific to that world. For common beasts, check out the free wiki. Once I get internet back in June (hopefully), at least access I don't have to travel a distance to get to, I'll start adding some more generic material. A real "monster manual" would be treated in much greater detail, of course.[/quote]

Cool, we'll look forward to it.


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 Post subject: Re: Questions after first play session
PostPosted: Thu May 15, 2008 7:07 am 
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Chaos-Summoning Sorcerer
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Joined: Thu Sep 30, 2004 3:47 pm
Posts: 724
Location: Lexington, KY
Ze Groupe wrote:
Quote:
Yes, but small shields offer no passive protection. Just a +50% boost to Melee basic + Shield Specialization branch MRV total.


But if this is the case, then what is the point of carrying a shield when not wearing armour. Why does the shield give you an effective armour of say you had D6 armour, the shield gives you 2 to 7 instead of 1 to 6 (and that would only increase with bigger shields), but when you're not wearing armour, suddenly the shield stops preventing those points of damage?

The benefit of using a shield without armor (well, a small shield anyway) is for the bonus to your Deflect DP. Small shields like bucklers do absolutely nothing for you if you're not moving them around to intercept attacks. Large shields are difficult to move around and intercept specific attacks, but they're so big there's a good chance attacks will just hit them.

But I see where you're coming from, and I don't think having an armor check of 0D0+1 or +2 would be unbalancing in any way.

Quote:
But the thing here is, there are a couple of issues unanswered;
A) What if you have two different weapons, which initiative bonus do you count.
B) Why does carrying a combat axe make you act first (thus implying that you are faster) when doing something non-axe related like climbing a ladder, over someone who has no weapons and is therefore unencumbered.

We have a suggestion, as all initiative bonuses range from 1 to 3; invert them and make them penalties. So a Dagger, which was a +3 becomes a -1 (the inversion is important, otherwise it makes a Sword faster than a Knife). Then make it so that when you use a weapon without specialisation in it's family, you have to take the penalty to initiative. But as soon as you specialise, the penalty is gone. This provides specialisation incentive, and more accurately symbolises both unfamiliarity with a untrained weapon AND that someone not carrying a weapon is not going to be slowed down by it and is therefore faster than someone who does have a weapon.

I vaguely recall the issue of initiative and dual-wielding being discussed in another thread on this forum. But I can't seem to find it now so maybe I imagined it. I like your solution, though.

Quote:
Lastly, a few requests that we think would allow people to better enjoy this system:
1. A bestiary, or at least a monster a week added to the wiki. This is a real drawback for us as players at the moment.
2. A short one-session adventure designed to showcase the mechanics and guide new groups through the system.

As I understand it, the wiki is meant mostly for players and GMs to put stuff in...so if you want a monster a week, get to it! :)

_________________
Dieter Zimmerman
Drunk & Sailor


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 Post subject: Re: Questions after first play session
PostPosted: Fri May 16, 2008 2:55 pm 
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Cold-Blooded Diabolist

Joined: Sat Sep 08, 2007 11:32 pm
Posts: 530
Quote:
But I see where you're coming from, and I don't think having an armor check of 0D0+1 or +2 would be unbalancing in any way.


That's actually how it works. If the character wears no armor, he'd still get the passive bonus from medium to large shields.

Quote:
But the thing here is, there are a couple of issues unanswered;
A) What if you have two different weapons, which initiative bonus do you count.
B) Why does carrying a combat axe make you act first (thus implying that you are faster) when doing something non-axe related like climbing a ladder, over someone who has no weapons and is therefore unencumbered.


A) You count the initiative bonus of the weapon readied at the begining of the round, and not the weapon held in the "off hand" if using two weapons.

B) Remember in a single phase (not round) heroes go first. If you're comparing two heroes, then roll an opposed roll of reflexes. If you (as GM) feel that movement should go before certain weapon attacks, it's easy to rule. ;-)

Quote:
We have a suggestion, as all initiative bonuses range from 1 to 3; invert them and make them penalties. So a Dagger, which was a +3 becomes a -1 (the inversion is important, otherwise it makes a Sword faster than a Knife). Then make it so that when you use a weapon without specialisation in it's family, you have to take the penalty to initiative. But as soon as you specialise, the penalty is gone. This provides specialisation incentive, and more accurately symbolises both unfamiliarity with a untrained weapon AND that someone not carrying a weapon is not going to be slowed down by it and is therefore faster than someone who does have a weapon.


Hmmm...I like that. I'll have to put that in my notes for future consideration.


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