Gen Con 2007 Special: Saga of the Witch Queen

Discussion of DCC modules published under 1E and C&C rules by Goodman Games, as well as conversions to other systems by fans.

Moderators: DJ LaBoss, finarvyn, Harley Stroh

goodmangames
Cold-Hearted Immortal
Posts: 2701
Joined: Sun Dec 01, 2002 12:41 pm
Location: San Jose, CA

Gen Con 2007 Special: Saga of the Witch Queen

Post by goodmangames » Wed Jul 25, 2007 7:23 pm

Well, it's official: Gen Con 2007 has a con special! This year we're producing Saga of the Witch Queen, and yes it uses 1E rules again! Written by Harley Stroh with 1E conversion by Jon Hershberger, Saga of the Witch Queen combines DCC #17: Legacy of the Savage Kings, DCC #17.5: War of the Witch Queen, and a new bridging adventure called Lost Passage of the Drow into one 80-page action-packed adventure... with an awesome cover illustration in Classic TSR Orange by Brad McDevitt. Here's a sneak peak of the cover. Look for more details on the main web site soon.

One note for Gen Con attendees: This year we will be limiting convention purchases to 2 copies per person. After the con, we will have a healthy supply available for online purchase, in case anyone wants more than 2 or missed Gen Con. We do not anticipate running out, either at Gen Con or afterward.

Image
Joseph Goodman
Goodman Games
www.goodman-games.com

User avatar
JediOre
Cold-Hearted Immortal
Posts: 1127
Joined: Mon Apr 05, 2004 4:30 pm
Location: In a galaxy far, far, away (Missouri)

Post by JediOre » Thu Jul 26, 2007 5:04 am

This is wonderful! What a great set of adventures to get the special AD&D treatment.

I predict this triology will be thought of as among the other trilogy greats:

TSR's
I3-5 Desert of Desolation
G1-3 Against the Giants
D1-3 Desent into the Depths of the Earth

and Necromancer's
R1-3 Rappan Athuk

islestrike
Ill-Fated Peasant
Posts: 6
Joined: Fri Jan 19, 2007 1:22 pm
Location: T-Dot CANADA

Re: Gen Con 2007 Special: Saga of the Witch Queen

Post by islestrike » Thu Jul 26, 2007 8:02 am

goodmangames wrote:
After the con, we will have a healthy supply available for online purchase, in case anyone wants more than 2 or missed Gen Con. We do not anticipate running out, either at Gen Con or afterward.
Hello There!

I just wanted to say thank you for this consideration. It is not possible for all your customers and fanbase to attend these cons, so giving them access to the con specials when they purchase all your other DCCs month in and month out is appreciated. :) I have most of the earlier con exclusives picked up with some hassle through Ebay. I'm glad there will be a limited order period where anyone who wants a copy can buy one. Especially when we are talking about 17.5 ...I paid $76 dollars to read that one and worth every dollar it was. Now others will get the chance to read it in some form. :wink:

Looking forward to getting the whole 1E bridged version in my hands. Have you considered doing a unique 1E adventure as part of the regular monthly DCC line? Or perhaps an OSRIC adventure? I'm not talking about a conversion of an existing module but an all new adventure. Kind of a way of injecting something a little different into the regular release schedule.

Cheers!

User avatar
Steinkel
Far-Sighted Wanderer
Posts: 18
Joined: Tue Jul 03, 2007 10:45 pm
Location: Spain
Contact:

Post by Steinkel » Thu Jul 26, 2007 9:59 am

Wow!!! :shock: Fantastic idea. I like the color used in the front cover, truly a classic. :D

tacojohn4547
Hard-Bitten Adventurer
Posts: 165
Joined: Mon Dec 05, 2005 10:36 am

Post by tacojohn4547 » Thu Jul 26, 2007 10:06 am

Looking forward to getting the whole 1E bridged version in my hands. Have you considered doing a unique 1E adventure as part of the regular monthly DCC line? Or perhaps an OSRIC adventure? I'm not talking about a conversion of an existing module but an all new adventure. Kind of a way of injecting something a little different into the regular release schedule.

I don't presume to speak for Goodman Games, or for Joseph Goodman himself, but I can reply to this as I have done some checking into this very thing myself. These comments reflect my opinion (and only my opinion).

No one outside of WoTC can legally do a true 1E AD&D(t) adventure. WoTC owns most of the intellectual property associated with the former TSR organization, and such IP is protected under US law. And while there are a variety of opinions on whether this protection is enforceable or defendable or not, it is clear that the IP belongs to WoTC.

The d20 OGL doesn't expressly cover 1E, so there's little wiggle room in the OGL itself.

The Goodman Games special convention releases are a bit unique. We steer clear of any potential trademarked names, descriptions, and such. We avoid the artistic presentation or representation which might in and of itself be protected IP.

There are a few publishers out there that are for all intents and purposes publishing 1E adventures. But, they aren't doing so legally as licensees of WoTC.

OSRIC releases are kind of unique, too. The OSRIC OGL draws from WoTC's OGL, but comes up with a different set of rules that happens to function a lot like 1E. Publishers like Goodman Games, Expeditious Retreat, and others have to decide whether publishing under OSRIC is a direction in which they want to go or not. Goodman Games has decided, at least up to this point, that they will not be publishing anything under the OSRIC OGL, or which is expressly OSRIC-compatible.


Then there's the matter of confusion in the market place. The DCC line does a good job of recreating the look and feel of the old 1E modules. So good, in fact, that many retail consumers believe that the DCC line of adventures are in fact re-releases of the 1E modules updated for the D&D 3.5 rules. As crazy as this sounds, especially since the cover art is all new for the DCC line and since the title of each adventure is right there on the front cover, it does happen. I saw it at Gen Con last year, at the Goodman booth, and I've heard the same comments from the guys that run our FLGS. Adding a sub-line of 1E DCC's would in all liklihood add further confusion to this problem.


Sorry the news isn't better on this front. I feel your pain! :wink:

tacojohn4547

islestrike
Ill-Fated Peasant
Posts: 6
Joined: Fri Jan 19, 2007 1:22 pm
Location: T-Dot CANADA

Post by islestrike » Thu Jul 26, 2007 11:11 am

tacojohn4547 wrote:
Sorry the news isn't better on this front. I feel your pain! :wink:
No problems. If the licensing issues are going to cause potential grief then you're wise to just channel your efforts into the regular format. I was just throwing it out there as an idea for doing a unique one shot module within the regular DCC release line. Not suggesting this should be a separate line or a regular occurence. :wink:

Cheers!

Rath
Far-Sighted Wanderer
Posts: 26
Joined: Sat Jun 23, 2007 2:02 pm
Location: Colorado

Post by Rath » Thu Jul 26, 2007 5:38 pm

Joe, you're the best. I can't wait to buy a copy of this adventure after the con (since I won't be attending). How much $$$ will this thing be going for anyway?

User avatar
moriarty777
Wild-Eyed Zealot
Posts: 81
Joined: Mon Oct 30, 2006 2:08 am

Post by moriarty777 » Thu Jul 26, 2007 7:30 pm

This is way cool... I wish I could have gotten a copy of the last 1E adventure but at least I got the PDF version. I'm determined not to miss the boat this time round!

Moriarty the Red

Treebore
Cold-Blooded Diabolist
Posts: 419
Joined: Tue Aug 22, 2006 6:50 pm
Location: Elfrida, Arizona

Post by Treebore » Thu Jul 26, 2007 9:36 pm

Nice! I am glad this is going to be available after GenCon.
Castles and Crusades is my game of choice!

User avatar
Ogrepuppy
Tight-Lipped Warlock
Posts: 921
Joined: Thu Jul 06, 2006 11:26 pm
Location: the Towers of Carcosa

Post by Ogrepuppy » Fri Jul 27, 2007 2:33 am

Lemme get this straight--it's not the d20 version?

.... :shock:


Infidels!



(Bah, who am I kidding? It's a Goodman release...I'll probably get it anyway.)

Rath
Far-Sighted Wanderer
Posts: 26
Joined: Sat Jun 23, 2007 2:02 pm
Location: Colorado

Post by Rath » Fri Jul 27, 2007 7:37 am

I'm curious about the 1E conversion process.

Does anyone know if just the core 1E books were used to make the conversion or if other books like the 1E Unearthed Arcana were used as well (for spells, classes, the new version of the paladin, etc...)

Personally, I hope that just the core books were used for the most part... with maybe just some of the spells from UA thrown in here and there. I was never a big fan of UA.

Also, will this release be a perfect bound book or will it have staples?

gideon_thorne
Far-Sighted Wanderer
Posts: 33
Joined: Fri Aug 12, 2005 5:11 pm
Contact:

Post by gideon_thorne » Fri Jul 27, 2007 7:55 pm

Rath wrote:I'm curious about the 1E conversion process.

Does anyone know if just the core 1E books were used to make the conversion or if other books like the 1E Unearthed Arcana were used as well (for spells, classes, the new version of the paladin, etc...)
From what I understand, its more the SRD was used for the terminology than using any 1E books.
Peter B

Castles & Crusades and Lejendary Adventure Artist

tacojohn4547
Hard-Bitten Adventurer
Posts: 165
Joined: Mon Dec 05, 2005 10:36 am

Post by tacojohn4547 » Sun Jul 29, 2007 7:10 pm

Rath,

Thanks for the interest. Those are good questions.
Rath wrote:I'm curious about the 1E conversion process.

Does anyone know if just the core 1E books were used to make the conversion or if other books like the 1E Unearthed Arcana were used as well (for spells, classes, the new version of the paladin, etc...)

Personally, I hope that just the core books were used for the most part... with maybe just some of the spells from UA thrown in here and there. I was never a big fan of UA.

Also, will this release be a perfect bound book or will it have staples?

As much as possible, we used the core 1E hardcovers for the conversion. There are a few monsters, spells and magic items that were used from some of the expanded 1E books (UA, MMII, FF), but that was more the exception than the rule.

NPC classes for all three adventures are core PHB only: fighters, clerics, magic users and thieves.

Races were handled a bit different from classes. As you may recall, drow in the 1E MM were really a subset of the elves and received a mere one paragraph. By the time the FF was released in 1981, drow had undergone a revision or two and had truly become a race with which to be reckoned. Where possible, we used the later version of monsters for the conversion. Drow received a special treatment in the Saga compilation as they play a central role in the bridging story.

As for binding, since the page count rose to 80 pages, this will be a perfect bound book.

As an FYI, Goodman Games commissioned some new art for the bridging adventure. This new art really does a great job of conveying the images described in the adventure text. I think you'll really like how it compliments the writing.


tacojohn4547

tacojohn4547
Hard-Bitten Adventurer
Posts: 165
Joined: Mon Dec 05, 2005 10:36 am

Post by tacojohn4547 » Sun Jul 29, 2007 7:20 pm

gideon_thorne wrote:
Rath wrote:I'm curious about the 1E conversion process.

Does anyone know if just the core 1E books were used to make the conversion or if other books like the 1E Unearthed Arcana were used as well (for spells, classes, the new version of the paladin, etc...)
From what I understand, its more the SRD was used for the terminology than using any 1E books.

Peter, I'm curious about your source of information. I assure you that I used the 1E hardcovers for this conversion. :D :D

Goodman Games took care of the legal OGL and SRD disclosures at the back of the module. If that is the source of your understanding, then you're probably right, too! :D :D

tacojohn4547

gideon_thorne
Far-Sighted Wanderer
Posts: 33
Joined: Fri Aug 12, 2005 5:11 pm
Contact:

Post by gideon_thorne » Sun Jul 29, 2007 10:10 pm

tacojohn4547 wrote:
gideon_thorne wrote:
Rath wrote:I'm curious about the 1E conversion process.

Does anyone know if just the core 1E books were used to make the conversion or if other books like the 1E Unearthed Arcana were used as well (for spells, classes, the new version of the paladin, etc...)
From what I understand, its more the SRD was used for the terminology than using any 1E books.

Peter, I'm curious about your source of information. I assure you that I used the 1E hardcovers for this conversion. :D :D

Goodman Games took care of the legal OGL and SRD disclosures at the back of the module. If that is the source of your understanding, then you're probably right, too! :D :D

tacojohn4547
*chuckles* Just reading your explanations here and there of how you did it, mate. Seemed to me to be a combination of SRD terminology and a bit of free thinking common sense.

Honestly, how much skull sweat does it take to pull the appropriate terms out of the SRD and short stat block things? ^_~`
Peter B

Castles & Crusades and Lejendary Adventure Artist

tacojohn4547
Hard-Bitten Adventurer
Posts: 165
Joined: Mon Dec 05, 2005 10:36 am

Post by tacojohn4547 » Mon Jul 30, 2007 5:56 am

Honestly, how much skull sweat does it take to pull the appropriate terms out of the SRD and short stat block things? ^_~`
You're funny, Peter! :wink:
I don't think I ever said it was hard to do a 3.x to 1E conversion. I mean, if I can do it, how hard can it be? :D :D

But it does take some time, and not just anybody is willing to take the the time to get it right.


Anyway, I think the finished product is going to turn out nice, and I hope you guys like the 1E version of these adventures.

tacojohn4547

islestrike
Ill-Fated Peasant
Posts: 6
Joined: Fri Jan 19, 2007 1:22 pm
Location: T-Dot CANADA

Post by islestrike » Tue Jul 31, 2007 12:25 pm

tacojohn4547 wrote: As for binding, since the page count rose to 80 pages, this will be a perfect bound book.
Reading this I thought of something. :idea: It would have been cool to see this project released as three (3) separate modules each with the classic TSR monochrome covers of yore like the original D or G series had.

Too late to implement it now, but maybe keep it filed away for a future project.


:)

Cheers!

Rath
Far-Sighted Wanderer
Posts: 26
Joined: Sat Jun 23, 2007 2:02 pm
Location: Colorado

Post by Rath » Tue Jul 31, 2007 2:57 pm

islestrike wrote:
tacojohn4547 wrote: As for binding, since the page count rose to 80 pages, this will be a perfect bound book.
Reading this I thought of something. :idea: It would have been cool to see this project released as three (3) separate modules each with the classic TSR monochrome covers of yore like the original D or G series had.

Too late to implement it now, but maybe keep it filed away for a future project.
Personally I like the idea of the adventures being under one cover... that's just me though.

islestrike
Ill-Fated Peasant
Posts: 6
Joined: Fri Jan 19, 2007 1:22 pm
Location: T-Dot CANADA

Post by islestrike » Tue Jul 31, 2007 5:06 pm

Rath wrote: Personally I like the idea of the adventures being under one cover... that's just me though.
Either way it's all good. :wink:

I just stumbled onto Harley Stroh's blog ...looks like there is a 4th installment ("...the final, dramatic finale") planned to wind up Saga of the Witch Queen, if I read it correctly:

http://choosedeath.blogspot.com/

NICE!

Harley - I saw you have a pic of Animal Chin there. Any chance we'll see him statted up as NPC or Villain in a future DCC adventure?

Cheers!

Nahat Anoj
Wild-Eyed Zealot
Posts: 74
Joined: Mon Mar 20, 2006 2:11 pm

Re: Gen Con 2007 Special: Saga of the Witch Queen

Post by Nahat Anoj » Wed Aug 01, 2007 5:38 am

goodmangames wrote:...and a new bridging adventure called Lost Passage of the Drow...
Is this adventure available for 3.x?

tacojohn4547
Hard-Bitten Adventurer
Posts: 165
Joined: Mon Dec 05, 2005 10:36 am

Re: Gen Con 2007 Special: Saga of the Witch Queen

Post by tacojohn4547 » Wed Aug 01, 2007 6:26 am

I just stumbled onto Harley Stroh's blog ...looks like there is a 4th installment ("...the final, dramatic finale") planned to wind up Saga of the Witch Queen, if I read it correctly:

http://choosedeath.blogspot.com/

NICE!

Someday, perhaps, we will have the chance to tell more of the Witch Queen's story..... :wink:

Jonathan Moyer wrote:
goodmangames wrote:...and a new bridging adventure called Lost Passage of the Drow...
Is this adventure available for 3.x?
It is not available for 3.x, yet........... (see above observation by islestrike) :D

tacojohn4547

Nahat Anoj
Wild-Eyed Zealot
Posts: 74
Joined: Mon Mar 20, 2006 2:11 pm

Re: Gen Con 2007 Special: Saga of the Witch Queen

Post by Nahat Anoj » Wed Aug 01, 2007 6:57 am

tacojohn4547 wrote:
Jonathan Moyer wrote:
goodmangames wrote:...and a new bridging adventure called Lost Passage of the Drow...
Is this adventure available for 3.x?
It is not available for 3.x, yet........... (see above observation by islestrike) :D
Ah, yes. :) And I thought I read Harley's blog entry, too!

Harley Stroh
Cold-Hearted Immortal
Posts: 1803
Joined: Wed Sep 15, 2004 4:02 am
Location: On the run.
Contact:

Post by Harley Stroh » Wed Aug 01, 2007 1:45 pm

The last installment of the WQ will be the big reveal. Lots of good stuff planned for that one. :)
islestrike wrote:Harley - I saw you have a pic of Animal Chin there. Any chance we'll see him statted up as NPC or Villain in a future DCC adventure?
*laugh* That's a great idea. He's nearly impossible to find, though. :twisted:

//H
The lucky guy who got to write some Dungeon Crawl Classics.

DCC Resource thread: character sheets, judge tools, and the world's fastest 0-level party creator.

jason.richardson
Hard-Bitten Adventurer
Posts: 161
Joined: Wed May 10, 2006 11:22 am
Location: Savannah, Georgia

Post by jason.richardson » Thu Aug 02, 2007 5:31 am

Harley Stroh wrote:The last installment of the WQ will be the big reveal. Lots of good stuff planned for that one. :)
islestrike wrote:Harley - I saw you have a pic of Animal Chin there. Any chance we'll see him statted up as NPC or Villain in a future DCC adventure?
*laugh* That's a great idea. He's nearly impossible to find, though. :twisted:

//H
True, but it is the journey to find him that's important, grasshopper.

Front-side ching-ching to revert :shock: .

Harley Stroh
Cold-Hearted Immortal
Posts: 1803
Joined: Wed Sep 15, 2004 4:02 am
Location: On the run.
Contact:

Post by Harley Stroh » Thu Aug 02, 2007 10:16 am

Off topic, but if you are coming to GenCon, Jason, bring your board. Old men falling down on concrete....

//H
The lucky guy who got to write some Dungeon Crawl Classics.

DCC Resource thread: character sheets, judge tools, and the world's fastest 0-level party creator.

Post Reply