super secret project/gary con

Fritz Leiber's Lankhmar setting, home to the legendary Fafhrd and Gray Mouser, is the first officially licensed setting for the DCC RPG.

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Re: super secret project/gary con

Post by ajtheronin » Mon Mar 30, 2015 5:36 pm

Don't get me wrong the changes sound awesome but there are some significant changes. At this point we will be only using chapters 2, 3, 4 and some of the appendixes as is (and there are elements on chapter 4 like turn unholy that won't be used at all), the rest will have some significant rules changes (not omissions but changes).

Wouldn't it be better to have a core Lankhmar rulebook instead?

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Re: super secret project/gary con

Post by Golgothmog » Mon Mar 30, 2015 7:58 pm

Jim Skach wrote:1) Luck is the new black. It's everything. It is a luck-based mechanic that replaces clerical healing. Luck flows fast and loose to the point where there is a carousing mechanic for getting luck back...for all classes.
I'm not so much liking the sound of that. Too much like Bennies in Savage Worlds... chasing off any inconvenience/consequence/challenge... though that might have been our GM handing out WAY too man of them.

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Re: super secret project/gary con

Post by Ravenheart87 » Tue Mar 31, 2015 12:42 am

ajtheronin wrote:Don't get me wrong the changes sound awesome but there are some significant changes. At this point we will be only using chapters 2, 3, 4 and some of the appendixes as is (and there are elements on chapter 4 like turn unholy that won't be used at all), the rest will have some significant rules changes (not omissions but changes).

Wouldn't it be better to have a core Lankhmar rulebook instead?
Nope. I don't want to buy another core book because of a few pages of changes just for Lankhmar. Especially with american shipping prices.
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Re: super secret project/gary con

Post by catseye yellow » Tue Mar 31, 2015 2:33 am

raven, don't you have rpg brick and mortar stores in budapest? can't you order through them?

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Re: super secret project/gary con

Post by Ravenheart87 » Tue Mar 31, 2015 4:10 am

catseye yellow wrote:raven, don't you have rpg brick and mortar stores in budapest? can't you order through them?
There are only a few stores and they rarely sell anything besides mainstream stuff. And even if one of them managed to get it, it would be still cheaper from other places. Amazon has quite friendly shipping fees for hardcovers nowadays, even if it can be slow sometimes. Paizo is okay for small stuff, like adventures. BookDepository would be the best, but there's no DCC. NobleKnight is ridiculous. European stores are usually more expensive, so the lower shipping fees won't compensate. I have to pick carefully, where I get my stuff. :)
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Re: super secret project/gary con

Post by catseye yellow » Tue Mar 31, 2015 5:27 am

Ravenheart87 wrote:
catseye yellow wrote:raven, don't you have rpg brick and mortar stores in budapest? can't you order through them?
There are only a few stores and they rarely sell anything besides mainstream stuff. And even if one of them managed to get it, it would be still cheaper from other places. Amazon has quite friendly shipping fees for hardcovers nowadays, even if it can be slow sometimes. Paizo is okay for small stuff, like adventures. BookDepository would be the best, but there's no DCC. NobleKnight is ridiculous. European stores are usually more expensive, so the lower shipping fees won't compensate. I have to pick carefully, where I get my stuff. :)
during the '90s i used to get my stuff from budimpesta since there was no brick and mortar store in belgrade (although there was one in novi sad) and amazon and its kin were just starting.

i usually these days get everything i need in pdf except for the core book, kickstarters (they killed me on the shipping though) and harley stroh adventures (that i pick up every time i visit london or further afield).

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Re: super secret project/gary con

Post by ajtheronin » Tue Mar 31, 2015 6:36 am

Ravenheart87 wrote:
ajtheronin wrote:Don't get me wrong the changes sound awesome but there are some significant changes. At this point we will be only using chapters 2, 3, 4 and some of the appendixes as is (and there are elements on chapter 4 like turn unholy that won't be used at all), the rest will have some significant rules changes (not omissions but changes).

Wouldn't it be better to have a core Lankhmar rulebook instead?
Nope. I don't want to buy another core book because of a few pages of changes just for Lankhmar. Especially with american shipping prices.
I understand but is not a few pages. The chapter that apparently won't get changed are the smaller chapters. Character creation, Magic and the Gamemaster chapters look like it will get completely overhauled.

See it this way, if you are going to pay shipping anyways for the Lankhmar setting book, why not make it a full rule book? When playing you will only need to carry the Lankhmar book if that's what you are playing instead of 2 books and future customer that don't plan to get DCC but want the Lankhmar stuff may still get a taste of the DCC rules (even if it's modified to fit the setting).

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Re: super secret project/gary con

Post by catseye yellow » Tue Mar 31, 2015 6:55 am

ajtheronin wrote:
Ravenheart87 wrote:
ajtheronin wrote:Don't get me wrong the changes sound awesome but there are some significant changes. At this point we will be only using chapters 2, 3, 4 and some of the appendixes as is (and there are elements on chapter 4 like turn unholy that won't be used at all), the rest will have some significant rules changes (not omissions but changes).

Wouldn't it be better to have a core Lankhmar rulebook instead?
Nope. I don't want to buy another core book because of a few pages of changes just for Lankhmar. Especially with american shipping prices.
I understand but is not a few pages. The chapter that apparently won't get changed are the smaller chapters. Character creation, Magic and the Gamemaster chapters look like it will get completely overhauled.

See it this way, if you are going to pay shipping anyways for the Lankhmar setting book, why not make it a full rule book? When playing you will only need to carry the Lankhmar book if that's what you are playing instead of 2 books and future customer that don't plan to get DCC but want the Lankhmar stuff may still get a taste of the DCC rules (even if it's modified to fit the setting).
but everything you need to play lankhmar adventures is already in the dcc core book. just forget about mercurial magic (as i do often enough), disallow demihumans and clerics and proclaim that everyone can regain luck by spending cash carousing. it is more or less about cutting stuff out than putting more in.

also, let's wait for the video of the dark master delivering beautiful yet terrible news.

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Re: super secret project/gary con

Post by Ravenheart87 » Tue Mar 31, 2015 7:12 am

catseye yellow wrote:but everything you need to play lankhmar adventures is already in the dcc core book. just forget about mercurial magic (as i do often enough), disallow demihumans and clerics and proclaim that everyone can regain luck by spending cash carousing. it is more or less about cutting stuff out than putting more in.
My thoughts exactly. It would be like some people writing just another retroclone for whatever D&D, because they have a handful of house rules. Even if the changes take 32 pages, it's not worth writing a new rulebook just for Lankhmar. A setting book/box is enough.
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Re: super secret project/gary con

Post by finarvyn » Tue Mar 31, 2015 7:52 am

I think it may be a "damned if you do, damned if you don't" thing, depending upon how different the rules turn out to be. If you put the new rules into a full-out rulebook, folks will complain about having to re-buy the rules. If you make a boxed set with only the rules changes in it, folks will complain about having to buy a rulebook in addition to the boxed set.

It really will come down to the quantity of changes, I suspect.
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Re: super secret project/gary con

Post by catseye yellow » Tue Mar 31, 2015 8:02 am

i think that dcc lankhmar is primarily aimed at us loyal dcc fans who already own the rulebook if there are converts thanks to the magnetic pull of fritz leiber's amazing fiction than it is boon to all of us.

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Re: super secret project/gary con

Post by catseye yellow » Tue Mar 31, 2015 3:23 pm

here is video of the gg seminar at gary con

http://spellburn.com/2015/03/31/gary-co ... man-games/

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Re: super secret project/gary con

Post by rabindranath72 » Wed Apr 01, 2015 3:44 am

finarvyn wrote:I think it may be a "damned if you do, damned if you don't" thing, depending upon how different the rules turn out to be. If you put the new rules into a full-out rulebook, folks will complain about having to re-buy the rules. If you make a boxed set with only the rules changes in it, folks will complain about having to buy a rulebook in addition to the boxed set.

It really will come down to the quantity of changes, I suspect.
Yeah that's tricky.
On the one hand, I don't see a lot of stuff in DCC being very Lankhmarish at all (clerics and cleric spells, most if not all wizard spells, most if not all attendant rules, demihumans etc.) but then they might choose to be less faithful to the setting and allow a lot of DCC stuff (like TSR did.) Personally, if the Lankhmar book was independent of the DCC core rules I'd be happier as I don't play and don't particularly like DCC by itself. But then again, I am a Lankhmar nuts, so I'd buy it anyway :)

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Re: super secret project/gary con

Post by finarvyn » Wed Apr 01, 2015 4:09 am

rabindranath72 wrote:I don't see a lot of stuff in DCC being very Lankhmarish at all (clerics and cleric spells, most if not all wizard spells, most if not all attendant rules, demihumans etc.) but then they might choose to be less faithful to the setting and allow a lot of DCC stuff (like TSR did.)
I think that the modules have a very Lankhmar-ish feel to me, but a lot of that may be Doug's artwork. I haven't taken the time to examine modules to see what sort of "conversion" would be needed to run them in Nehwon (You pointed out a lot of the biggies -- no or limited clerics, no demi-humans, wizard magic mostly ritualistic, and so on.) but my "gut feel" is that many of them would fit well with the setting once a few tweaks are made.

Having no clerics, for example, doesn't have to change the module's mechanics. Only the fear-factor when undead are encountered. You find one, you run. :lol:
rabindranath72 wrote:Personally, if the Lankhmar book was independent of the DCC core rules I'd be happier as I don't play and don't particularly like DCC by itself. But then again, I am a Lankhmar nuts, so I'd buy it anyway :)
I think the hope would be to attract both kinds of fans -- those who are DCC nuts and those who are Lankhmar nuts. I'm not sure how much those two groups overlap, which is one reason why having a "DCC Lankhmar" rulebook might be a solid idea. Having the Lankhmar stuff without a core DCC rulebook might be annoying.
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Re: super secret project/gary con

Post by catseye yellow » Wed Apr 01, 2015 10:04 am

i would disagree about lankhmar magic being ritualistic. for example, mouser slays the duke during torture session in the unholy grail. also, hristomilo obviously casts choking cloud and animal summoning :p

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Re: super secret project/gary con

Post by rabindranath72 » Fri Apr 03, 2015 7:13 am

catseye yellow wrote:i would disagree about lankhmar magic being ritualistic. for example, mouser slays the duke during torture session in the unholy grail. also, hristomilo obviously casts choking cloud and animal summoning :p
Yeah well I suppose it depends on what's your definition of "ritual." To me a ritual is a spell that takes a very long time to cast, and uses various and possibly complex components etc. Hristomilo apparently takes quite long to cast his spell, and with a very complex apparatus. Mouser casts a spell while he is being tortured! Definitely not possible under any D&D rules set.
"Ice magic" seems to take a lot of women to cast, for apparently a prolonged time.
The closest spell to D&D magic I recall is the one cast by a lord of Quarmall (a sort of lightning bolt or magic missile.) But in general Lankhmar magic doesn't look like D&D magic at all.

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Re: super secret project/gary con

Post by catseye yellow » Fri Apr 03, 2015 12:34 pm

i would argue that dcc magic is also removed a few steps from garden variety d&d.

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Re: super secret project/gary con

Post by finarvyn » Fri Apr 03, 2015 1:22 pm

catseye yellow wrote:i would argue that dcc magic is also removed a few steps from garden variety d&d.
Sounds like a lot of arguing. 8)

No doubt that magic in a Lankhmar setting will require some tweaks. It's not flash-bang as per D&D and it's not corrupting the way DCC magic is done. It doesn't exactly fit with either system.

One of a couple things will have to happen:
(1) The writers will have to leave canon behind a little in order to allow characters to be spellcasters during adventures.
(2) The writers will stick to canon and primary spells will be cast by NPCs or "behind the scenes" rather than in action.

It's not like this is the only setting with such issues. If you read Conan stories you note a lack of flash-bang magic, yet the Conan RPGs on the market seem to allow for PC spellcasters.
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Re: super secret project/gary con

Post by GnomeBoy » Sat Apr 04, 2015 1:13 pm

...What if casting magic in Lankhmar has more to do with "individual technique" than the nature of the spell, per se?

For example, the women of the north casting in a 'ritual' is simply because that's how they know how to cast -- whereas someone else could potentially get the same effect by, say, snapping their fingers.

It's like, for me to do my taxes myself would be a major undertaking with lots of paraphernalia and a lot of time wasted correcting myself along the way -- whereas my wife with her accounting degree can do it much faster and more intuitively.

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Re: super secret project/gary con

Post by catseye yellow » Sat Apr 04, 2015 3:57 pm

finarvyn wrote:
catseye yellow wrote:i would argue that dcc magic is also removed a few steps from garden variety d&d.
Sounds like a lot of arguing. 8)

No doubt that magic in a Lankhmar setting will require some tweaks. It's not flash-bang as per D&D and it's not corrupting the way DCC magic is done. It doesn't exactly fit with either system.

One of a couple things will have to happen:
(1) The writers will have to leave canon behind a little in order to allow characters to be spellcasters during adventures.
(2) The writers will stick to canon and primary spells will be cast by NPCs or "behind the scenes" rather than in action.

It's not like this is the only setting with such issues. If you read Conan stories you note a lack of flash-bang magic, yet the Conan RPGs on the market seem to allow for PC spellcasters.
i think that mercurial magic is gone, spell esclation is still there with more outre misfires and corruptions gone. i think that there will be some taint as connected to magic (remember hristomilo?).

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Re: super secret project/gary con

Post by Gameogre » Mon Apr 27, 2015 1:56 am

Does the adventure out now have the new (in progress) rules for carousing and such?

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Re: super secret project/gary con

Post by catseye yellow » Mon Apr 27, 2015 2:31 am

i think not. it has a new patron and means to transfer your dcc characters into another world.

i hope we can get soon some q&a with curtis, stroh and others that will provide some appetizers for a feast to come.

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