Goodman Games

Sooo... I've read Tolkien and Lovecraft. Now the DCC focus on the appendix N books has got me interested in reading some of the other stuff on the list. But where should I start? I know it's a matter of taste, but what would you recommend.

Aim for Vance and Leiber.

But I haven't gone wrong with any off the original list that were new to me, so far...

GnomeBoy wrote:Aim for Vance and Leiber.

Seconded, or anyone else EGG mentioned below:

The most immediate influences upon AD&D were probably de Camp & Pratt, R. E. Howard, Fritz Leiber, Jack Vance, H. P. Lovecraft, and A. A. Merritt;

Outside those esteemed authors I really like Manly Wade Wellman (esp. the Silver John stuff) & Moorcock/Elric. Lin Carter gets a bad rap from REH purists but I like his stuff, too.

The ones that have been mentioned already, plus Roger Zelazny's "Amber" chronicles. "Nine Princes in Amber" is one of my favorite books.

There is so much good stuff in Appendix N that it is almost insane.

It is almost always worthwhile to give yourself a good grounding in Burroughs, Howard, and Lovecraft. Thereafter, try reading some Merritt, some Brackett, and some Wellman. I'd never read Manly Wade Wellman prior to getting hooked on DCC, and I am shocked at how much I was missing. His Hok the Mighty stories are great. His Silver John stories are better. The Incompleat Enchanter stories by deCamp and Pratt are fun. Fritz Leiber's Fafhrd and the Gray Mouser series are definitely worth reading.

I think you can just grab whatever comes to hand from these works, and browse as the mood takes you. There is no wrong order to read them in, and who knows what minor detail you will uncover to spring on your unsuspecting players?

At the top of 2011, I started keeping a list of what's on Appendix N in my pocket when I'd travel, mostly for camping trips -- basically when I was anywhere that there was a bookstore that I'd never been to...

I just picked up whatever I could find off that list. I enjoyed finding bargains (sometimes 3 or 4 books off the list from one place for $1 each). I enjoyed just diving into whatever I'd found.

At this point, I have a nightstand full of books, mostly Appendix N, with a few close relatives, and some change of pace books. I will still be working my way through that stash of books through next year...

While not strictly "Appendix N" I just started reading some Sci-fi and fantasy authors who were contemporaries of Howard, Lovecraft, et. al.

Hope Mirrless' Lud-in-the-Mist and David Lindsay's "A Voyage to Arcturus" are both great.

I second Vance and Leiber. I'm not really a pulp aficionado--I view both of them as extraordinarily good seen through any lens. Vance for pure writing and raw creativity, Leiber for great characters and fun action. Read the Eyes of the Overworld and maybe Lean Times in Lankhmar.

jozxyqk wrote:I second Vance and Leiber. I'm not really a pulp aficionado--I view both of them as extraordinarily good seen through any lens. Vance for pure writing and raw creativity, Leiber for great characters and fun action. Read the Eyes of the Overworld and maybe Lean Times in Lankhmar.

Thanks to everyone who replied!

Leiber and Vance seems to be what most people believe is "next" for me. I'll follow this advise. Since actions and characters are most important to me, Fritz Leiber is proberbly what I'm looking for.

Lieber's prose is very light and easy to read and you'll probably rip through his stuff quickly. When you get done, definitely give Jack Vance a look and of course Robert E. Howard's Kull, Conan, Bran Mak Morn, and Solomon Kane stories. There's just something about those two authors' tone and style in particular that immediately puts me in the right frame of mind for designing adventures and fleshing out my home-brew world.

Leiber for dark comedy adventures, Howard for gritty horror adventures.

Leiber's stories could almost be write-ups of someone's DCC game, except that they were written a few decades before D&D was invented. Start with the early stories because they are a lot better than the later ones, IMO.

For Howard, try Conan and Solomon Kane. And Kull and Francis X Gordon and any others you can find. (Although I found his boxing stories to be a little odd. I'm just not into boxing stories.) Personally, I think that Howard's "mythos" stories are better than Lovecraft's. On a message board the other day I saw a quote about how Lovecraft's characters run in terror while Howard's attack and leave behind traces of dead monsters.

Anyway, I'd vote for Leiber and Howard.

As far as tradition goes... Tolkien, Lovecraft, Howard, Vance, and Lieber.

I personally add Lloyd Alexander (Prydain) as well.

Beyond that I would look into Greek, Norse, Celtic, Indian, and Middle Eastern mythology as opposed to additional modern works.

I've just listened to the audio book versions of the Iron Druid Chronicles.
It's a good call on wild magic and the randomness of magic.
If q of the later books, the main character, a 2100 yer old druid, explains how magic is random based on cater and their beliefs.

I might suggest that you take the idea of appendix N in a more general sense. Just read something that interests you, and don't look at the list in the old DM's guide as though it's a required reading assignment in a college course. Read for the enjoyment of reading, and I think you will find more inspiration than if you read something because you think you are supposed to.

Eyeball360 wrote:I might suggest that you take the idea of appendix N in a more general sense. Just read something that interests you, and don't look at the list in the old DM's guide as though it's a required reading assignment in a college course. Read for the enjoyment of reading, and I think you will find more inspiration than if you read something because you think you are supposed to.

True enough.

But for me, the whole advent of DCC RPG was enough to push me to dig for and read Lieber, Vance and others that I had never tried before -- and I liked it!

If you've gone through the list and are looking for something else to read, I would recommend Gene Wolfe. Then again, if you've read the whole list you probably already know about Gene Wolfe.

Eyeball360 wrote:I might suggest that you take the idea of appendix N in a more general sense. Just read something that interests you, and don't look at the list in the old DM's guide as though it's a required reading assignment in a college course. Read for the enjoyment of reading, and I think you will find more inspiration than if you read something because you think you are supposed to.

But the point of Appendix N was a listing of what inspired Gary Gygax, one of the original creators of OD&D back in the 1970's. It also serves as a guideline as to what inspires the creators of the DCC RPG, since they used that list to reimagine role playing.

I won't say that other reading isn't a good thing, but for the best way to get "inside the mind" of the authors of OD&D and/or DCC, those are the books to look at first.

Think about this -- a person reads Jordan's "Wheel of Time" series and decides he wants to role play it, then buys a bunch of DCC modules. He'll probably think, "What is this? This is nothig like Wheel of Time." Have a person read a bunch of Leiber's Fafhrd & Mouser stories then buy the same selection of DCC modules. He'll get it.

Just my two coppers.

finarvyn wrote:

Eyeball360 wrote:I might suggest that you take the idea of appendix N in a more general sense. Just read something that interests you, and don't look at the list in the old DM's guide as though it's a required reading assignment in a college course. Read for the enjoyment of reading, and I think you will find more inspiration than if you read something because you think you are supposed to.

But the point of Appendix N was a listing of what inspired Gary Gygax, one of the original creators of OD&D back in the 1970's. It also serves as a guideline as to what inspires the creators of the DCC RPG, since they used that list to reimagine role playing.

I won't say that other reading isn't a good thing, but for the best way to get "inside the mind" of the authors of OD&D and/or DCC, those are the books to look at first.

Think about this -- a person reads Jordan's "Wheel of Time" series and decides he wants to role play it, then buys a bunch of DCC modules. He'll probably think, "What is this? This is nothig like Wheel of Time." Have a person read a bunch of Leiber's Fafhrd & Mouser stories then buy the same selection of DCC modules. He'll get it.

Just my two coppers.

Oh, I dunno... I suggested the Chronicles of Prydain... it's not in the list at all of course, but you've got a guy who's a PIG KEEPER who meets the Three Fates, and goes on adventures with a dwarf, a bard, an enchantress, and others in which they travel to mystical places and battle with strange beings... at one point destroying a cauldron that was used to create an army of undead... sounds pretty DCC like to me, lol.

I've found myself going back to things I read when I was younger and finding so much...more...

Currently reading Swords in the Mist (Leiber) and it's so DCC, I wonder if Joseph and Leiber collaborated directly on both the Core Book and the novel via time machine.

ragboy wrote:I've found myself going back to things I read when I was younger and finding so much...more...

I'm the same way. I found D&D and much of the Appendix N style literature when I was in middle school back in the 1970's. At the time they seemed like cool stories, no more. Years later when I reread some of this stuff I just think "wow" and see layers that I never even thought about at the time.

ragboy wrote:Currently reading Swords in the Mist (Leiber) and it's so DCC, I wonder if Joseph and Leiber collaborated directly on both the Core Book and the novel via time machine.

Very much so. I've often thought that Leiber's Fafhrd & Mouser stories sounded so much like RPG game sessions transcribed ... I like the time machine theory.

IMHO list to follow is:
1. Jack Vance (Dying earth series is a must, Lyonesse books are great too)
2. Roger Zelazny (Dilvish or Amber series)

Next: Howard, Lord Dunsany, & Moorcock.

And as a personal opinion, I find interesting "Magic Kingdom for sale" from Terry Brooks and "The Princess Bride" by Goldman, despite they aren't classics like the previous mentioned, they match the feeling of the Appendix N

Clark Ashton Smith. I'm reading the collected works right now, and I can almost see the DCC cover for some of his stories.

Or, if you are looking for a series that highlights the lighter side of gaming, you should check out Critical Failures by Robert Bevan. They're crude and use a lot of profanity, but are still a fun read.

I'll never look at the Mount spell the same again.

I can't recommend Lord Dunsany enough.

His stuff has an ephemeral or dream-like quality that I've not seen elsewhere. His Time and the Gods is an interesting read that I finished last month.

JediOre wrote:I can't recommend Lord Dunsany enough.

His stuff has an ephemeral or dream-like quality that I've not seen elsewhere. His Time and the Gods is an interesting read that I finished last month.

Nice to hear. A collection of his that I picked up in Eureka is next after The Blue Star.

GnomeBoy wrote:

JediOre wrote:I can't recommend Lord Dunsany enough.

His stuff has an ephemeral or dream-like quality that I've not seen elsewhere. His Time and the Gods is an interesting read that I finished last month.

Nice to hear. A collection of his that I picked up in Eureka is next after The Blue Star.

GnomeBoy, I don't think you'll be disappointed. Do you know the stories in your collection? I've not read all of his works, only about three or four collections of his short stories as well as The Charwomen's Shadow and The King of Elfland's Daughter.