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PostPosted: Wed Apr 30, 2014 3:41 pm 
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Ill-Fated Peasant

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I'm in my 30's. Kicking myself in the ass right now for being such a poser all these years! This stuff is great (so far). Also, I'm actually listening to the audiobooks, which is even more fun.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 30, 2014 5:00 pm 
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My wife recommended them to me since I like fantasy books. I picked a few of them up at the used book store. Haven't read them yet though. I've read a few things about them on the web, and am looking forward to them!


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 30, 2014 5:28 pm 
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They are good.

I found them a bit rough to read for I like my heroes to be the "Lone Ranger" type (not the new Disney version, but the classic radio drama, comic books, and television show version). You know, the squeaky clean, "gee mister I want to grow up to be like you" type good guys! :D

Anyway, Eric is NOT my type of protagonist, but the stories are hard to put down.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 30, 2014 5:35 pm 
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There are so many Elric books out now, it's hard to keep track of them all. If you want "the basics" for Elric I suggest the "Stealer of Souls" trade paperback. It's not expensive and it has all of the early stories, which tend to be my favorites.

http://www.amazon.com/Elric-Stealer-Chr ... s+moorcock

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 30, 2014 5:53 pm 
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I've dabbled with Elric many years ago, but recently picked up one of the early books used (forget which one at the moment).

I suppose Elric appeals more to the Wolverine fans, whereas I've always been more of a Nightcrawler and Colossus man, and so prefer Fafhrd and the Grey Mouser...

*mentally tries to peg all the classic X-Men to Appendix N characters*

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VOORAK, L, Hunter, S10, A12, Sm10, P6, I13, L13, AC 10, HP 3, Spear +0 1d8, Init 0; R 0, F 0, W -1, Holy water, Pelt, 3 iron spikes, 50' rope, 3d ration, 4-leaf clover (Find secret doors) (+1), Com +1

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TARR, C, Hunter, S14, A11, Sm15, P13, I7, L7, AC 10, HP 3, Spear +1 1d8+1, Init 0, R 0, F 1, W 1, Holy water, Pelt, 4 torch, flint/steel, 1d ration, sm sack, 10' chain, torch, Fox's cunning (traps), Com

TELVA, RIP


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PostPosted: Thu May 01, 2014 2:29 am 
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For a first-time Elric reader, I'd say "earlier is better."

As I mentioned a couple of posts ago, my first choice to introduce the reader to Elric would be the "Stealer of Souls" volume of short stories, printed in 2008 in trade paperback format. This is a collection of short stories originally collected in two books: The Stealer of Souls (1963) and Stormbringer (1965). I know -- it's confusing that the same title is used in 1963 and 2008 for slightly different material. These are, IMO, the best Elric stories and form the nucleus for a more casual reader wanting to experience Elric without having to read a whole series of novels.

The set I discovered in the late 1970's was the DAW paperback run (still on my shelf) which was a 6-volume series at the time. This is the way I was first exposed to Elric and I really enjoyed reading the stories at the time.
1. Elric of Melniboné (1972)
2. The Sailor on the Seas of Fate (1976)
3. The Weird of the White Wolf (1977)
4. The Sleeping Sorceress (1972 as the Vanishing Tower)
5. The Bane of the Black Sword (1977)
6. Stormbringer (1977)
These books have awesome covers, too! 8)

The novel Elric at the End of Time (1984) was later stuck in as Elric #7, but the quality is weak IMO and its order in the series was't clear to me at the time. I just knew that Stormbringer had a great finish and has to be the last one in the series. Two later novels Fortress of the Pearl (1989) and Revenge of the Rose (1991) never recaptured the magic of Elric for me.

The full chronology would be something like this, I think, based on the White Wolf hardback collection:
1. Elric of Melniboné
2. The Fortress of the Pearl
3. The Sailor on the Seas of Fate
4. Elric at the End of Time
5. The Weird of the White Wolf
6. The Vanishing Tower (The Sleeping Sorceress)
7. The Revenge of the Rose
8. The Bane of the Black Sword
9. Stormbringer

There are also other books where Elric makes an appearance, but they are outside the main storyline.

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PostPosted: Thu May 01, 2014 3:31 am 
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Back in the 80s, "Elric at the end of time" had an awesome edition from Paper Tiger illustrated by Rodney Mathews. No idea if it's available reprinted or a collectors piece.
Apart from the suggested chronology you have also the option to swap to the parallel Eternal Champion series: Corum, the Runestaff, and Jerry Cornelius are really cool also


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PostPosted: Thu May 01, 2014 7:52 am 
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Ok...I'm on "Sailor..." and it's pretty boring. I love this character though! Never could stand "good guys" heh, which keeps me away from most high fantasy.


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PostPosted: Thu May 01, 2014 9:37 am 
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HelterSkeletor wrote:
Never could stand "good guys" heh, which keeps me away from most high fantasy.


Infidel! :lol:


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PostPosted: Thu May 01, 2014 4:13 pm 
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HelterSkeletor wrote:
Ok...I'm on "Sailor..." and it's pretty boring. I love this character though! Never could stand "good guys" heh

Have you ever heard about Cugel's Saga?


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PostPosted: Thu May 01, 2014 6:21 pm 
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Elric was my first anti-hero. And still the only one I really like.

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PostPosted: Thu May 01, 2014 7:48 pm 
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donpimpom wrote:
HelterSkeletor wrote:
Ok...I'm on "Sailor..." and it's pretty boring. I love this character though! Never could stand "good guys" heh

Have you ever heard about Cugel's Saga?


No, I haven't. What's up with it?


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PostPosted: Fri May 02, 2014 2:28 am 
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mythfish wrote:
Elric was my first anti-hero. And still the only one I really like.
Same for me. My wife always kids that I'm a Paladin in real life since I always do the "good guy" bit, but Elric is like my kryptonite. I don't like the "bad guy" character, but somehow Elric is my exception.

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PostPosted: Fri May 02, 2014 6:48 am 
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finarvyn wrote:
Same for me. My wife always kids that I'm a Paladin in real life since I always do the "good guy" bit, but Elric is like my kryptonite. I don't like the "bad guy" character, but somehow Elric is my exception.


Dittos.


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PostPosted: Fri May 02, 2014 7:00 am 
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HelterSkeletor wrote:
donpimpom wrote:
HelterSkeletor wrote:
Ok...I'm on "Sailor..." and it's pretty boring. I love this character though! Never could stand "good guys" heh

Have you ever heard about Cugel's Saga?


No, I haven't. What's up with it?

Jack Vance, Dying Earth, 'Nuff Said.




...What? You aren't reading it yet?

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Playing RPGs since 1977 • Quasi-occasional member of the Legion of 8th-Level Fighters.

Link: Here Be DCC Monsters

VOORAK, L, Hunter, S10, A12, Sm10, P6, I13, L13, AC 10, HP 3, Spear +0 1d8, Init 0; R 0, F 0, W -1, Holy water, Pelt, 3 iron spikes, 50' rope, 3d ration, 4-leaf clover (Find secret doors) (+1), Com +1

SARKLA, C, Gatherer, S9, A14, Sm14, P15, I14, L8, AC 11, HP 4, Knife +0 1d4, Init 1, R 1, F 1, W 1, Chest, Basket of veggies, 2d ration, lg sack, 1lb herbs, waterskin, torch, Seventh son (Spell checks), Com +1

TARR, C, Hunter, S14, A11, Sm15, P13, I7, L7, AC 10, HP 3, Spear +1 1d8+1, Init 0, R 0, F 1, W 1, Holy water, Pelt, 4 torch, flint/steel, 1d ration, sm sack, 10' chain, torch, Fox's cunning (traps), Com

TELVA, RIP


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PostPosted: Fri May 02, 2014 12:20 pm 
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Dying Earth: I'm on the fence about dying earth. I like it, but I'm not sure I'm enthusiastic the way I am about Conan. I want more wizard action, and I keep getting overly-poetic prose.


Elric: I read the first book of the recent collections, Stealer of Souls. It had the first book, but also what seems like the end of the world. As a result, the other stories feel like they've lost the threat: I know how it ends for most characters, and it's hard to get into it. That said, the ones I did read are amazing. I'm going to try again with other stories and just go with it.

That said: Boom comics recently did Elric comics, and they're fantastic. They're sort of set in all Moorcock's worlds as if it was a single cohesive setting: Elric meets up with Hawkmoon and others to fight lords of chaos and war, cross the planes, go to Texas, etc. Art is fantastic, too. Love it. I've been thinking Stormbringer stats for DCC recently.


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PostPosted: Fri May 02, 2014 5:04 pm 
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fireinthedust wrote:
Dying Earth: I'm on the fence about dying earth. I like it, but I'm not sure I'm enthusiastic the way I am about Conan. I want more wizard action, and I keep getting overly-poetic prose.
I don't dislike Dying Earth, but I don't get pumped up for it much, either. I think there are some good tales, and they often remind me of Dumas' Three Musketeers where the heroes often are a lot more clueless than the reader. And I like the fact that so much of D&D came from Vance's works.

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PostPosted: Fri May 02, 2014 5:06 pm 
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fireinthedust wrote:
Elric: I read the first book of the recent collections, Stealer of Souls. It had the first book, but also what seems like the end of the world. As a result, the other stories feel like they've lost the threat: I know how it ends for most characters, and it's hard to get into it. That said, the ones I did read are amazing. I'm going to try again with other stories and just go with it.
That's an interesting point which I hadn't really considered since I read the 6-volume paperback series first.

One interesting thing to me is that Moorcock wrote his stories that way, where he knew how the series would end and kept filling in details along the way in additional stories. Seems like most modern fantasy series aren't done that way.

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PostPosted: Fri May 02, 2014 5:57 pm 
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finarvyn wrote:
That's an interesting point which I hadn't really considered since I read the 6-volume paperback series first.

One interesting thing to me is that Moorcock wrote his stories that way, where he knew how the series would end and kept filling in details along the way in additional stories. Seems like most modern fantasy series aren't done that way.


I think it's my issue with a lot of franchise fiction, such as Star Wars EU as well as shows like the upcoming Batman prequel series: do a great story, then go back before it happened.

Don't get me wrong, I loved the Clone Wars series, though re-watching Episode 3 is strange (ie: I'm no longer expecting to hear Hayden Christiansen's whining "my Master" during a sword fight). But I preferred episodes where things had nothing to do with the movies: there were great episodes, but one set of them had Anakin see that he'd become Darth Vader and then have his mind wiped so "it was all a dream", which was a pain.

My preference for Elric would have been, I don't know, starting in a new world or alternate world where he somehow emerges from Stormbringer, or something. I don't know. Or at least just write another story without having specific events that will happen.

Case in point:

REH does a great job with Conan in that, while we know he'll one day become a king, most of the stories are just adventures on their own. The story is not about the events or the chronology. The story is the adventures that he has as a swordsman, thief, reaver, barbarian, etc. He's not in your face with the same characters in every story, for the most part. Granted, one would like an ensemble. Robert Jordan's stories use the same one-eyed companion, and I liked that.

For Elric, especially in the comic series "The Balance Lost", you have the franchise of him wandering the multiverse for whatever reason. Bad guys come, he yells "Blood and Souls for Arioch!", and it's fantastic. There's the battle between Law and Chaos, there's Tanelorn, and weirdness all over. That's the franchise for Elric as I see it. I get that historically it includes knowing that the universe ends, that the Young Kingdoms fall to Chaos and Law... and that's awesome. I dunno, though, that it's the right focus for the character, and in a collection introducing new readers like myself, it would have been nice if they'd saved the story for the last volume. Unlike the Conan stories, where REH's style develops as he continues, Elric's as-published are full of spoilers. Lin Carter did some kind of chronology for Conan, but it's not necessary for him like it would be for Elric, as none of the Conan stories really reference each other in the same way.

I'm not usually into anti-heroes, but Elric... he's kind of caught with his own demons, and trying to be a good guy. He's not a bad person, either: he's not happy about slaying people, like a Deadpool type. He's just unable to stop, and that's what makes him relatable for me. I think Moorcock was dealing with his own inner demons, something like drinking, but I may be misremembering. Maybe he ended the setting to deal with that, the self-destruction he felt... then publishers loved his stuff, so he had to come up with something, and turned to prequels!

X-men: I'd say Conan would be Wolverine, btw. Elric is closer to Gambit, maybe; or even Cyclops shacked up with Dark Pheonix. Y'know, cause Stormbringer is his evil, soul-sucking girlfriend? Heh, maybe Silver Surfer with Galactus? :D


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PostPosted: Sat May 03, 2014 3:38 am 
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HelterSkeletor wrote:
No, I haven't. What's up with it?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cugel%27s_Saga
Cugel is the main character in some stories of the Dying Earth serie, IMHO is the best fantasy anti-hero, he is a kind of thief-rogue always planning how to screw everybody... and always failing.
"Cugel is a classic Vance anti-hero; though he fancies himself an aesthete and a superior being to those around him, in his actions he is a liar, a cheat, an inveterate thief, a guiltless coward, a charlatan, selfish, greedy, vicious, and so on. " (wiki quoted)
Despite there is no connection point at all, I always think about Cugel as a kind of Harry Flashman of the fantasy genre.
So when you have a gap I suggest you to go for "The Eyes of the Overworld", the first book of Cugel (sadly there are only two)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Eyes_of_the_Overworld


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PostPosted: Sun May 04, 2014 5:37 am 
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Sounds cool, thanks for the recommendation!


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PostPosted: Sun May 04, 2014 5:55 am 
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Picked up a collection many a year a go published by White Wolf called Tales of the White Wolf. Has Elric stories by, among others, Tab Williams, Karl Edward Wagner, and Neil Gaiman. Big Gaiman fan here so I had to have the collection. Might be interesting for those who have read all the Moorcock books. This thread has me wanting to go back and read my copies.


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PostPosted: Sun May 04, 2014 3:04 pm 
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Stretch wrote:
Picked up a collection many a year a go published by White Wolf called Tales of the White Wolf. Has Elric stories by, among others, Tab Williams, Karl Edward Wagner, and Neil Gaiman. Big Gaiman fan here so I had to have the collection. Might be interesting for those who have read all the Moorcock books. This thread has me wanting to go back and read my copies.
I think that Gary Gygax wrote a story in that book as well, if my memory is correct.

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PostPosted: Mon May 05, 2014 7:00 am 
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It's been a while since I read it. I will have to pull that out and check. I actually found a novel of his the other day in a used bookstore of ours. Can't remember the name but it was an Egyptian themed story. It was a nice find, though I don't think he was the greatest writer. Also found a copy of the Complete Enchanter. Sadly, being in a rural area, they are not doing well and will probably have to close shop. Going to try and get as much as I can before they do.

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PostPosted: Tue May 06, 2014 2:23 am 
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Stretch wrote:
It's been a while since I read it.
Pulled out my copy. Fot those interested, here are the list of stories:

"The White Wolf's Song" by Michael Moorcock
"Go Ask Elric" by Tad Williams
"Now Cracks a Noble Heart" by David M. Honigsberg
"A Devil Unknown" by Roland J. Green & Frieda A. Murray
"Kingsfire" by Richard Lee Byers
"The Gate of Dreaming" by Brad Strickland
"The Littlest Stormbringer" by Brad Linaweaver & William Alan Ritch
"Providence" by Kevin T. Stein
"The Guardian at the Gate" by Scott Ciencin
"Celebration of Celene" by Gary Gygax
"The Song of Shaarilla" by James S. Dorr
"Too Few Years of Solitude" by Stewart von Allman
"White Wolf's Awakening" by Paul W. Cashman
"The Dragon's Heart" by Nancy A. Collins
"A Woman's Power" by Doug Murray
"The Gothic Touch" by Karl Edward Wagner
"The Soul of an Old Machine" by Thomas E. Fuller
"The White Child" by Jody Lynn Nye
"Temptations of Iron" by Colin Greenland
"The Other Sword" by Robert Weinberg
"Arioch's Gift" by Charles Partington
"The Trembler on the Axis" by Peter Crowther & James Lovegrove
"Beyond the Balance" by Nancy Holder
"One Life Furnished with Early Moorcock" by Neil Gaiman

There are several big-name authors here. I highlighted a couple whose names popped out at me. 8)

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