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 Post subject: Is our vision of Conan wrong?
PostPosted: Sun Dec 09, 2012 1:42 pm 
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Deft-Handed Cutpurse
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I had to tink about this last night after I finished the Slithering Shadow:
http://gutenberg.net.au/ebooks06/0601051h.html

Conan has hair on his chest!!!!!

I've never seen a Conan drawn with hair on his chest. Has it been a mistake all these long years?

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 Post subject: Re: Is our vision of Conan wrong?
PostPosted: Sun Dec 09, 2012 2:29 pm 
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Well, modern preference for the clean shaven chest notwithstanding, Conan came from cold climes. Likely he and his people were hairy all over. :)


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 Post subject: Re: Is our vision of Conan wrong?
PostPosted: Sun Dec 09, 2012 3:16 pm 
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Never really cared about his chest hair.

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 Post subject: Re: Is our vision of Conan wrong?
PostPosted: Sun Dec 09, 2012 4:16 pm 
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Our image of Conan has been dictated by Frazzeta almost as much as it has been by Howard. A lot of artists looked at Frazzeta's vision after. Frazzeta painted in a time in which absolute realism wasn't called "correct'. That might not even be the case at present, but be it as it may. I've got way too much to say about that topic....

So the question is really what do you think is "wrong"? I've honestly thought about painting body hair a few times. Notice the arm pits of my various DCC covers.

Sometimes an attempt at beauty is overridden by a an attempt at realism for better or worse. Are these things mutually exclusive? I am not sure, but the same thing happens in a DCC Adventure. Do we want fun (beauty) or do we want realism? I mostly avoid an evening or getting things "correct" when I can.

Am I saying Conan should have a beautiful chest?
Ultimately l agree with RavenHeat87 t on this one.

Quote:
Never really cared about his chest hair.


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 Post subject: Re: Is our vision of Conan wrong?
PostPosted: Sun Dec 09, 2012 4:58 pm 
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I like it when people are true the originators vision. I've never wanted conan to be some femmy greek statue. I've wanted him to be Barbarian!

Do we want Conan the beautiful or Conan the brute?

I leave it up to you to decide.

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 Post subject: Re: Is our vision of Conan wrong?
PostPosted: Sun Dec 09, 2012 5:30 pm 
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guyz! He might be missing an ear too:
THE POOL OF THE BLACK ONE
http://gutenberg.net.au/ebooks06/0600951h.html

"Conan's breeks hung in blood-stained tatters; his girdle and sheath were gone, his sword, driven upright into the deck beside him, was notched and crusted with red. Blood thickly clotted his black mane, and one ear had been half torn from his head"

maybe he glued it back on or sumtin

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 Post subject: Re: Is our vision of Conan wrong?
PostPosted: Sun Dec 09, 2012 5:36 pm 
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We want Conan the brute.

Both Fafhrd and Elric are more femmy than Conan, For some reason I like both of them better than Conan though.

This considered, Cugel the clever is really the bigger brute. (Jack Vance/ Dying Earth , do I need to say this?) As far as I can remember Conan only throws women out of windows into dung heaps and mostly murders people that can defend themselves. Cudgel is worse. Much more barbaric. Seems like a brute to me. Does Cudgel have chest hair? What is our vision of Cudgel?

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 Post subject: Re: Is our vision of Conan wrong?
PostPosted: Sun Dec 09, 2012 6:00 pm 
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The more I read the actual stories, the more I pictured Conan with furs, chainmail shirts, or breastplates on, instead of being bare chested. The only thing that would kind of interfere with my image of Conan is facial hair. I know it doesn't make much sense for a barbarian/mercenary/bandit/pirate to take time out to shave, but I've never seen him with facial hair.


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 Post subject: Re: Is our vision of Conan wrong?
PostPosted: Sun Dec 09, 2012 6:09 pm 
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My opinion on this matter summed up as an in-character vignette:

Merchant: "You're an adventurer, eh? I've met plenty in my day. I even had the eh, pleasure of selling a fine sword to Conan for a fistful of rubies. The scars on that man... and the hair. I'd of thought he was a bear that someone tried to shave with a dozen swords if he hadn't of spoken."

Young Adventurer: "Scars? Hair? I've seen the paintings... Conan's built like one of those statutes of the old gods of war, and his flawless body glistens with sweat. You must have met an impostor trying to use a legend's name to get a discount."

Merchant: "Oh, is that how it is? Are you sure it isn't that I have the right of it and it's the painter that has decided to take liberties? Would you be as inspired by a painting of a man like I described as you are by those you've seen? What about the battle you just one against the bandits attacking my caravan - you want the bards to sing of how you bravely defended an old man and his wares and won the favor of his comely daughter, or to clearly detail that battle fought and make sure to spend a whole verse imparting the details of that horrid groan and twisted face you made when that bandit's back swing caught you in the cod piece?"

Young Adventurer: [to bard] "Half my purse to leave that bit out."

Bard: "Done, and done."

He's big, muscley, and all of that... but he wears armor, gets hurt, has scars, and all of the other small "failings" that normal people have - but he keeps on going, and wins out most of the time, which gives him an "invulnerable" or "unstoppable" reputation that is best carried on to the "audience" of the storytellers and artists by embellishing - such as by giving him the image of some barely clothed, physically flawless specimen of purest manliness.


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 Post subject: Re: Is our vision of Conan wrong?
PostPosted: Sun Dec 09, 2012 6:25 pm 
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TheNobleDrake wrote:
My opinion on this matter summed up as an in-character vignette:

Merchant: "You're an adventurer, eh? I've met plenty in my day. I even had the eh, pleasure of selling a fine sword to Conan for a fistful of rubies. The scars on that man... and the hair. I'd of thought he was a bear that someone tried to shave with a dozen swords if he hadn't of spoken."

Young Adventurer: "Scars? Hair? I've seen the paintings... Conan's built like one of those statutes of the old gods of war, and his flawless body glistens with sweat. You must have met an impostor trying to use a legend's name to get a discount."

Merchant: "Oh, is that how it is? Are you sure it isn't that I have the right of it and it's the painter that has decided to take liberties? Would you be as inspired by a painting of a man like I described as you are by those you've seen? What about the battle you just one against the bandits attacking my caravan - you want the bards to sing of how you bravely defended an old man and his wares and won the favor of his comely daughter, or to clearly detail that battle fought and make sure to spend a whole verse imparting the details of that horrid groan and twisted face you made when that bandit's back swing caught you in the cod piece?"

Young Adventurer: [to bard] "Half my purse to leave that bit out."

Bard: "Done, and done."

He's big, muscley, and all of that... but he wears armor, gets hurt, has scars, and all of the other small "failings" that normal people have - but he keeps on going, and wins out most of the time, which gives him an "invulnerable" or "unstoppable" reputation that is best carried on to the "audience" of the storytellers and artists by embellishing - such as by giving him the image of some barely clothed, physically flawless specimen of purest manliness.


something like disney hercules vs robert graves hercules?


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 Post subject: Re: Is our vision of Conan wrong?
PostPosted: Sun Dec 09, 2012 6:50 pm 
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KnightErrantJR wrote:
The more I read the actual stories, the more I pictured Conan with furs, chainmail shirts, or breastplates on, instead of being bare chested. The only thing that would kind of interfere with my image of Conan is facial hair. I know it doesn't make much sense for a barbarian/mercenary/bandit/pirate to take time out to shave, but I've never seen him with facial hair.


Im starting to associate him with naked women too. There seems to be lots of them in the stories so far.

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 Post subject: Re: Is our vision of Conan wrong?
PostPosted: Sun Dec 09, 2012 7:17 pm 
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dark cauliflower wrote:
KnightErrantJR wrote:
The more I read the actual stories, the more I pictured Conan with furs, chainmail shirts, or breastplates on, instead of being bare chested. The only thing that would kind of interfere with my image of Conan is facial hair. I know it doesn't make much sense for a barbarian/mercenary/bandit/pirate to take time out to shave, but I've never seen him with facial hair.


Im starting to associate him with naked women too. There seems to be lots of them in the stories so far.



If I had to pick an accessory to my usual outfit, I could do worse than naked women.


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 Post subject: Re: Is our vision of Conan wrong?
PostPosted: Sun Dec 09, 2012 8:07 pm 
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Quote:
Bard: "Done, and done."



Sounds like you might be a good DM.

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 Post subject: Re: Is our vision of Conan wrong?
PostPosted: Sun Dec 09, 2012 9:13 pm 
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Doug Kovacs wrote:
Quote:
Bard: "Done, and done."



Sounds like you might be a good DM.

I try not to be cocky, but I think you may be right... at the very least I've got a table crowded with people every Friday night that seem to think so (some to the point that they come around on Monday, Tuesday, and Saturday nights too for other campaigns).

My favorite thing is that I really don't actually have a frame of reference to compare myself to since I can count on 1 hand hand the number of campaigns I've ever been a player in rather than GM, and can count the total number of sessions as a player between my hands and feet... despite having been playing just about any RPG I can get my hands on as many times a week as I can gather up a few friends for a few hours over the last 16 years.


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 Post subject: Re: Is our vision of Conan wrong?
PostPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2012 7:17 am 
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Doug Kovacs wrote:
We want Conan the brute.

Both Fafhrd and Elric are more femmy than Conan, For some reason I like both of them better than Conan though.


There is room in my heart to love them all equally. Conan is really some kind of demigod. He is unbeatable in swordplay. Whereas most others are more... realistic?


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 Post subject: Re: Is our vision of Conan wrong?
PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 5:26 pm 
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Doug Kovacs wrote:
We want Conan the brute.

Both Fafhrd and Elric are more femmy than Conan, For some reason I like both of them better than Conan though.

This considered, Cugel the clever is really the bigger brute. (Jack Vance/ Dying Earth , do I need to say this?) As far as I can remember Conan only throws women out of windows into dung heaps and mostly murders people that can defend themselves. Cudgel is worse. Much more barbaric. Seems like a brute to me. Does Cudgel have chest hair? What is our vision of Cudgel?


Cugel isn't as iconic as Conan. I don't recall seeing may pictures of Cugel slaughtering men like Conan. Hence I would suggest people don't really care about him as much as Conan.

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Last edited by Clangador on Fri Jan 25, 2013 1:32 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Is our vision of Conan wrong?
PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2013 9:57 am 
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Personally I'd love to see a rendition of Conan truer to Howard's vision, grizzled, chest hair, partially missing ear, scars, and slightly less bulky physique than the typical Frazetta Ah-noldesque bodybuilder too. "His cheap tunic could not conceal the hard, rangy lines of his powerful frame, the broad heavy shoulders, the massive chest, lean waist and heavy arms. His skin was brown from outland suns, his eyes blue and smoldering; a shock of tousled black hair crowned his broad forehead. From his girdle hung a sword in a worn leather scabbard."

Colin


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 Post subject: Re: Is our vision of Conan wrong?
PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2013 10:09 am 
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I never heard of Cudgel. Can someone enlighten me?

Chest hair? Really?
Do female Dwarves have beards? :wink:

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 Post subject: Re: Is our vision of Conan wrong?
PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2013 10:10 am 
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Blood Axe wrote:
I never heard of Cudgel. Can someone enlighten me?

Me neither, I only heard about Cugel. ;)

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 Post subject: Re: Is our vision of Conan wrong?
PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2013 10:14 am 
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Ravenheart87 wrote:
Blood Axe wrote:
I never heard of Cudgel. Can someone enlighten me?

Me neither, I only heard about Cugel. ;)


Clever.

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 Post subject: Re: Is our vision of Conan wrong?
PostPosted: Fri Jan 25, 2013 1:33 am 
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Blood Axe wrote:
I never heard of Cudgel. Can someone enlighten me?

Chest hair? Really?
Do female Dwarves have beards? :wink:


Fixed the spelling in my post. And, no, female Dwarves don't have beards.

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