Player Betrayal

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daniejm3
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Player Betrayal

Post by daniejm3 » Mon Jun 02, 2014 10:09 am

How have you dealt with unexpected player betrayal? In Starless Sea, My players managed to Kill the Shaman before he was able to throw the effigy into the sacrificial pit. Instead during the battle with the Beastmen One of my players picked up the effigy and threw it into the pit unleashing the Chaos Lord.

What should I do here?

A player has complained and while I don't think the group will break up over this I don't want continued animosity if the group manages to survive. We have about 11 characters left up against 15 beastmen 2 acolytes and the Choas Lord.

We haven't commenced battle with the Chaos Lord yet we stopped for the night because of time constraints. I have thought of some options:

1. Kill "Walter" (the PCs name) with Chaos Lord. show the player that you can't be a dick and get the party killed.
2. I can back up the game and say that you can't do something that would actively kill the party.
3. Let the scenario play out and do an "Escape from Hell" adventure for a TPK. I am ordering a scenario DCC #80 that could be modified for this. However, if they manage to roll well and live I'd imagine Walter would get booted from the party.

Logically why would a party of adventurers let Walter stay in the group? I don't think that can happen. I don't want animosity between party members so I feel like I may have to tell the player that he can't do something that would obviously kill the party.

Any advice would be appreciated.

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Doug Kovacs
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Re: Player Betrayal

Post by Doug Kovacs » Mon Jun 02, 2014 10:47 am

Let it play out. Sounds like Walter is an enemy now, but a lot of the time players can not so overtly get other players killed too and you shouldn't change the game then either.

Another thought, to even things up a bit , is to have some beast men come to their senses and switch sides …or refuse to fight…. after all they were supposed to have once been villagers themselves… perhaps something has been sparked in what remains of their old selves deep in their sub brains.

If you handle it well and give the proper warnings that this is all just a game, and can avoid hard feelings it has the potential to be a very memorable experience and great foundation for future gaming. There could also be some cool role playing involving the player of Walter's future characters possibly not being trusted.

In my years of gaming I've played around quite a bit with Pc betrayal and it always made the game more fun and often surprising.
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Re: Player Betrayal

Post by GnomeBoy » Wed Jun 04, 2014 7:10 am

If the player is being a jerk, that needs to be addressed person to person.

If the character is being a jerk, that can be dealt with in-game, either by the consequences of their actions taking them down a peg (or all the way down), or by the other characters dealing with it how they see fit.

And there are always stories where a character is adversarial at the start, but they become more closely allied to the larger group over time. It can add an interesting dimension.
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Raven_Crowking
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Re: Player Betrayal

Post by Raven_Crowking » Wed Jun 04, 2014 9:38 am

Follow this game up with Intrigue at the Courts of Chaos.
SoBH pbp:

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Re: Player Betrayal

Post by Johann » Mon Jun 09, 2014 11:24 pm

GnomeBoy wrote:If the player is being a jerk, that needs to be addressed person to person.

If the character is being a jerk, that can be dealt with in-game, either by the consequences of their actions taking them down a peg (or all the way down), or by the other characters dealing with it how they see fit.
Amen to that. Take care not to mix up the two scenarios.

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Re: Player Betrayal

Post by JediOre » Tue Jun 10, 2014 10:47 am

I would suggest that Walter, for willingly aiding the Chaos Lords, should painfully transform into a Beast Man Champion and become a NPC.

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Re: Player Betrayal

Post by Skyscraper » Tue Jun 10, 2014 11:41 am

daniejm3 wrote:How have you dealt with unexpected player betrayal? In Starless Sea, My players managed to Kill the Shaman before he was able to throw the effigy into the sacrificial pit. Instead during the battle with the Beastmen One of my players picked up the effigy and threw it into the pit unleashing the Chaos Lord.

What should I do here?

A player has complained and while I don't think the group will break up over this I don't want continued animosity if the group manages to survive. We have about 11 characters left up against 15 beastmen 2 acolytes and the Choas Lord.

We haven't commenced battle with the Chaos Lord yet we stopped for the night because of time constraints. I have thought of some options:

1. Kill "Walter" (the PCs name) with Chaos Lord. show the player that you can't be a dick and get the party killed.
2. I can back up the game and say that you can't do something that would actively kill the party.
3. Let the scenario play out and do an "Escape from Hell" adventure for a TPK. I am ordering a scenario DCC #80 that could be modified for this. However, if they manage to roll well and live I'd imagine Walter would get booted from the party.

Logically why would a party of adventurers let Walter stay in the group? I don't think that can happen. I don't want animosity between party members so I feel like I may have to tell the player that he can't do something that would obviously kill the party.

Any advice would be appreciated.
You appear to be interchangeably using "player" and "character" (or PC). It's not the same thing. The player hasn't betrayed anyone according to your post. The PC has.

So: if all players dislike how Walter's player is behaving, that might be a problem. Or not, if in the end the story remains fun to play out - perhaps they are frurstrated at the player for this one decision, but they'll get over it once they see how it pans out. If the way the player acts is a problem, then as noted by gnomeboy, you should address this with him. Perhaps in the end he's simply not a player with a playing style that is compatible with that of the others.

However if the PCs dislike what Walter did, this is entirely in-game and no problem at all.

As to your specific options, I admit that I dislike options (1) and (2). They are oriented at meta-punishing the player for his decision. RPGs are supposed to be open-ended and allow players to decide to do anything they want with their PCs. I don't see why it should be different this time.

I haven't read the adventure, but I understand that the Chaos Lord was supposed to be prevented from being summoned by destroying the effigy and instead the Chaos Lord was summoned by Walter. Here are quick ideas:

- Avoid killing Walter out of frustration. If you kill him, do it for the sake of the story and because you think it makes sense.
- Instead of killing Walter, the Chaos Lord could transform him into a demon of some type, granting him immortality and making him an enemy for the PCs for later adventures. Perhaps he even leaves and lets the players battle it out with their new enemy. Perhaps Walter-the-demon isn't aware of his new powers yet, perhaps he'll flee to come back later.
- The Chaos Lord could imprison or enslave the entire party and the next adventure could be to try to escape from that condition (is that what you mean by "Escape from Hell"?)
- Have the Chaos Lord offer to become the patron of Walter (offer as in: accept or die immediately). Walter would even gain some powers. If Walter is not level 1 yet, perhaps he's forced into becoming a wizard? But put a burden on Walter: some undesirable side effect from the link with the Chaos Lord.
- Perhaps the Chaos Lord doesn't care about the puny mortals before him and leaves to wreak havoc and destruction elsewhere. Perhaps there are ways to stop him and send him back from where he came? You can have the PCs run after him, trying to catch up, and describe a bit of the destruction that he laid on his path, just to let the player know of the consequences of the actions of his PC.
- Perhaps the Chaos Lord appears and asks that a quest be accomplished immediately by the one who free him (ask as in: accept or die immediately). A curse comes with the quest: any time not spent on furthering the quest comes with a cumulative penalty of -1 to Constitution.


There are most certainly other story options.
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Brother Sufferus, level 4 cleric, STR 13 (+1) AGI 15 (+1) STA 11 PER 13 (+1) INT 10 LUCK 9, AC: 11 (13 if wounded, 15 if down to half hit points), Refl: +3 Fort: +2 Will: +3, chaotic, Robe of the Faith, Scourge of the Maimed One, Darts of Pain.

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Re: Player Betrayal

Post by Gameogre » Thu Jun 12, 2014 3:15 am

I echo what has already been said,the character not the player is at fault.



In real life I return to gas stations because they gave me back too much change,pay my taxes and mostly smile at rudeness in others. When my boss says jump I am already airborn with my feet tucked up so it seems more impressive.


One of the things I like about rpg's is that I can play a underhanded,lying,cheating scumbag of a hero who is a mega jerk and somehow talks,walks or fights his way out of it all anyway. I can walk around and piss everyone off while making sure they need me far more than I need them.


Now there is a huge difference between my behavior and my characters. I am sitting down with my friends,I wouldn't ruin there fun for anything,not even to properly role play my character. If in game my character would do something to screw over another character in the party or cause horrid consequences for the entire party I would talk it over and make sure its ok with the rest of the team,if not would come up with another course of action. I can think of dirty underhanded reasons do do anything!

The funny thing is,most of the time the party members tell me to do it anyway. My fellow players like it when my character shows his true scumbag mentality even if it gets there characters in more hot water.

Last night during a duel between high nobles,my character Rasputin waited until the duel was over and while my friends were cheering for the winner and crowding around him. He walked over to the helpless badly wounded egocentric leader of a Noble house and dropped his drawers and took a piss on the fellow.

A few hours later and the entire party went from a high society ball to trying to flee through nasty sewer tunnels as we tried to escape the city and not only the Noble House of the victim but EVERY noble house including the one we had just risked life and limb for,it seems Noble stick together against bastard commoners with bladder issues!


The thing is ....I told the party what I wanted Ras to do before hand because well,I knew it was going to result in dire consonances. I was even secretly hopping someone would stop me! We had a great thing going and hated to ruin it. Ras can't help but being who he is but I the player really wanted to enjoy easy street for a few days.

Still,a authority figure with a huge ego,white wig (Ras HATES people in Wigs) with a irritating nasally voice that was at Ras's mercy? Couldn't .......resist.

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