When PCs die - how do you handle this?

[Vulcan]

I have recently stumbled across DCC after being persuaded to DM/Judge a RPG game once again by my games buddies. We gave up 4e a couple of years ago and have been board gaming since then. Still, we miss the excitement and humour of RPGs and DCC looks like it will provide these without the book keeping which became such a labour in 4e.

I've nearly finished my first read through of the DCC rules and so far I'm very impressed (and entertained). I'm now looking forward to running a funnel game in a couple of weeks (Sailors on the Starless Sea I think).

I am wondering about approaches used by Judges out there for when parties of established PCs lose one or more of their number in an encounter (not a TPK though). How would you replace the characters so that the players can still have a good time (possibly from mid-session) and they don't feel penalised in future sessions. After all, sometimes a death can be due to just plain old bad luck rather than poor judgment and I want everyone to have fun and continue having fun.

There are numerous possibilities of course (and I have used a few in the past) but ultimately I'm curious as to whether DCC Judges allow players to roll up a new equivalent level character, punish them somehow with a replacement PC of a level lower or maybe make them run a collection of level 0's again until the last survivor suddenly emerges as the replacement and is levelled up to parity with the other PCs.

It looks as though character death may be a regular occurrence in DCC but if it is too common then I fear the players will stop identifying with their replacement alter egos and the 'magic' will fade.

[smathis]

I punish the players severely when their characters die.

For every level the deceased character was, I have the player drink one shot.

Strangely, most players roll up Dwarves after that. I wonder if there's a correlation...

Just kidding.

A few years ago, back in the C&C days and such, we had a rule that you came in with 80% of your XP unless you died heroically. Mostly that became a debate of how falling into a pit trap was "heroic".

Here lately, we just roll up at whatever level they were at.

[Raven_Crowking]

Sailors gives you two chances to introduce new 0-levels; just go with those options.

So far, I've been making everyone start with 4 0-levels, and the survivors become a pool of characters the player can use. Along with a group of more powerful characters? Make 4 0-levels. They might get extra XP because what they are facing is out of their ken, and they level up easily enough.

Some PCs that die are just dead, but the chance to recover the body gives lvl 1+ characters a bit of extra oomph. In one session, my players travelled back in time via AL3 (Through the Cotillion of Hours) in order to undo the carnage wrought on their membership via Death Frost Doom.

Don't let 'em come back from the dead so often that death loses its sting, but keep that door always slightly ajar, so that enterprising characters might seek a way to pry it open. And let them. Just don't let the consequences always be what they would like.

Finally, consider using some monsters that do worse to the characters than kill them. In Bone Hoard of the Dancing Horror, the titular Dancing Horror leaves its victims wishing for a clean death. In Mermaids From Yuggoth, in the upcoming In the Prison of the Squid Sorcerer, you'll find another example of non-fatal nastiness.

[ragboy]

Other than laugh maniacally and add them to my "dead characters" folder, I don't offer a lot of sympathy. Adventuring is a nasty business. Go back to the cheesemaker or where ever you came from if it's too scary...

Seriously, though, I prefer to maim the characters -- it gives them character. The "roll over" rules are very forgiving. And, like Crowking, we keep a stable of characters -- 0-levels and henchmen (of at least first level). The other thing you could do is have "prisoners" in whatever adventure you are running (Sailors has a few 0-levels). The old AD&D modules seemed to be pretty good at having some replacement PC's/NPCs chained up in the dungeon.

In Mermaids From Yuggoth, in the upcoming In the Prison of the Squid Sorcerer, you'll find another example of non-fatal nastiness.

Can't wait to have one of my characters run through this. So friggin' cool.

[Vulcan]

Thanks for the responses all. With my question I am mainly thinking about situations where after several sessions of a campaign the PCs suffer one of more losses to their party. The characters are level 2+ and starting replacement characters from scratch is inconceivable when the rest of the party is so much more experienced. Perhaps not such an issue if the players have a couple of characters each and at least one remains alive but if both die then I will need to decide how to replace them.

For every level the deceased character was, I have the player drink one shot.
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This is great ... not sure its a punishment though

A few years ago, back in the C&C days and such, we had a rule that you came in with 80% of your XP unless you died heroically. Mostly that became a debate of how falling into a pit trap was "heroic".
Here lately, we just roll up at whatever level they were at.

I like the heroic death idea ... this is reminiscent of the Bushido RPG where (I think I am right) your accumulated karma for the old character (including how they died) could augment any new character you had.
Some level of punishment for losing a character seems appropriate to me but I suspect players will feel they have already been penalised enough having lost their precious!

In one session, my players travelled back in time via AL3 (Through the Cotillion of Hours) in order to undo the carnage

Love this idea, I will check out this scenario .. but as you say .. a one off really.

The most likely solution (to me) seems to be to let them take over a henchman/hireling (and convert them to a full blown PC) that is already with the party or roll a completely new character of equivalent level (possibly with some XP deduction as punishment).

[cjoepar]

Remember that since DCC uses an exponential xp scale, starting new characters at 0 level isn't really starting them that far behind, say, a 3rd or 4th level character. The new ones will catch up. I haven't played yet with characters above that level, but I would probably let them start someone two or three levels lower than the average level of the rest of the party. You can have a great party dynamic with a wide range of character levels in the party, too.

As far as how do I introduce new characters mid-adventure, I just usually wing it and work them into the story somehow. Here are some ways that I have done so:
1. The characters are prisoners of the monsters in the next encounter. When the party gets to the next encounter, they find that the new character(s) are bound or chained and the monsters are discussing how to cook them.
2. The character's are the last members of another party that is getting their ass kicked by the monsters in the next encounter. As the party approaches, they hear the sounds of fighting and they round the corner to see a bunch of dead adventurers and the new character(s) struggling against the monsters.
3. I add a secret room nearby and have the new character(s) hiding there. They are the only survivors of another party that entered this same dungeon and almost got wiped out. They've been hiding here for a few days wondering what to do when the party came along.
4. The party finds among the treasure in the encounter a scroll that turns stone to flesh. They soon come across a statue of a character that was turned to stone by a medusa...
5. The party finds some magical device nearby. While inspecting it, they hear a loud fizzle and zap and a bright flash appears behind them. When the smoke clears they realize they have inadvertantly summoned some innocent people to the depths of the dungeon.

[Ravenheart87]

When PCs die I cross their character sheets and write the time and cause of their death on it.

[beermotor]

The keys are petty well spelled out by RavenCrowking. I'd add, or at least echo/emphasize, let them keep a stable of characters if they want. My players have mostly level 2s, and a few level ones.

[themightyeroc]

I give the Dead PC's player a "Death Scene". Once it is apparent the PC is going to be dead I tell the player this is their moment to be as short and sweet or dramatic as they want. I give them a couple of minutes to compose themselves then the spotlight is theirs. We have had a couple of "Arrgghh! avenge me my friends!" and a simple "AAAAAAAAIIIIEEEEE!!!!!!!!" as well as a minute long death speech so far. Then i have that player write how and where the character died across the top of the character sheet. I have a Folder called the Hall of Death and getting a character sheet in there is sort of looked at as a reward.

After that, they continue on with one of the PC's from their stable or we find a new guy in the next room. So far I have new guys start as Zero's and they do catch up fast!

[Raven_Crowking]

Also, if you look at Through the Cotillion of Hours' "dream ghoul" encounter, you will note that the PCs are intended to recognize these ghouls as their fallen comrades, having a chance to find out how death is treating them in a social setting.

You can do a lot of fun things with dead PCs.

See also Goodman Games' Blades Against Death, and my own upcoming The Revelation of Mulmo, for ways to restore the dead.....maybe........

[Ravenheart87]

See also Goodman Games' Blades Against Death, and my own upcoming The Revelation of Mulmo, for ways to restore the dead.....maybe........

And page 285 of the DCC RPG rulebook.

[Gameogre]

Normally I don't have to SAY anything.

The little jig of death and the ceremonial shredding of the character sheet and characters name inclusion onto the Wall of Doomed Souls list we keep is enough.

A few times when dealing with high level pc's there might be a shout of glee or and once or twice a frantic attempt to actually catch player tears with a cup for later drinking(better than wine!) but that's about it.

[Tortog]

RC is right, constantly reanimating characters can cause death to lose its sting, but sometimes you need that dead character to carry the story forward to a critical moment. But I've always had a large number of folks interested in playing the 'necropolitan' template in the 3.5 edition.
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Let them continue as an intelligent zombie until they can find someone (or something) to restore them to life, or they are destroyed. The dead character loses one level, but retains their class, HD, and the undead character gains the typical powers, abilities, and vulnerabilities of an undead creature. If the level loss results in returning to zero level then they may choose a different class if they find their way back to the living, but they retain only vague memories of their old skills and abilities.

While they are dead the player characters have all ability scores and powers except for Luck… fate has already collected on their bill. There is no luck bonus or penalty applied to any class abilities and they have no luck to regenerate or share. An undead character may not gain experience points, but they can gain knowledge, wealth, and power. Lastly, undead characters may not heal naturally, but they gain full benefit from the Mending spell cast with a result of 20+. If the Storyteller allows; the undead character may also regain hit points and/or lost ability score points equal to 1hp or ability point per hit die of any living creatures consumed by the undead character. If this option is invoked the only way to replenish lost points of intelligence or personality require the consumption of an intelligent creature or humanoid.

If the character was a wizard or cleric they may lose their patron or divine connection if their death conflicts with the goals or teachings of said patron or deity. If they retain their casting ability then an undead wizard regains their spells at sunset and an undead cleric will regain their spells in a manner consistent with the edicts of their faith. Undead wizards are subject to both mercurial magic and corruption; and undead clerics may still incur the disapproval of their god.

If the undead character manages to find and force a creature or spell caster to bring them back to life: the regenerated character may either re-roll their Luck score and their luck boon from table 1-2 on p.19 of the Core Rules, or re-roll one ability score. In either case the new rolls are kept, even if they are worse. They retain any knowledge, memories, cash, items, and spells as well as any lost ability score points, corruptions, and obligations incurred while they were dead. The regenerated character may now gain experience points as any other living creature.

Lastly, here are 30 uses for a dead character… because a corpse is nearly as useful as a 10ft pole:

Armor rack, art, ballast, battering ram, bridge, buoy, compost, critter bait, demon bribe, disarming traps, distracting enemies, doorstop, drain plug, emergency rations, flower pot, fuel for a fire, improvised weapon (1d3/ size category, or 1d5 if corpse is heavily armored; range 10/ 15/ 20ft), messenger, packing material, plot device, raft (depending on size or number available), research cadaver, siege ammunition (as improvised weapon, but the Storyteller has final say), shield, smuggling prop, table, tent pole, torch holder, weather shelter (depending on size or number available), or zombie henchman.

[Ravenheart87]

Lastly, here are 30 uses for a dead character… because a corpse is nearly as useful as a 10ft pole:[/b]

Armor rack, art, ballast, battering ram, bridge, buoy, compost, critter bait, demon bribe, disarming traps, distracting enemies, doorstop, drain plug, emergency rations, flower pot, fuel for a fire, improvised weapon (1d3/ size category, or 1d5 if corpse is heavily armored; range 10/ 15/ 20ft), messenger, packing material, plot device, raft (depending on size or number available), research cadaver, siege ammunition (as improvised weapon, but the Storyteller has final say), shield, smuggling prop, table, tent pole, torch holder, weather shelter (depending on size or number available), or zombie henchman.

Well done! We need a supplement about this.

[Skyscraper]

Tent pole, lol

[Skars]

Also, if you look at Through the Cotillion of Hours' "dream ghoul" encounter, you will note that the PCs are intended to recognize these ghouls as their fallen comrades, having a chance to find out how death is treating them in a social setting.

You can do a lot of fun things with dead PCs.

See also Goodman Games' Blades Against Death, and my own upcoming The Revelation of Mulmo, for ways to restore the dead.....maybe........

Not to detract from these awesome products (and soon to be when referring to Daniels work) but the Ghostwalk campaign setting provides great opportunities in the city of "Manifest" for dead characters to come back into the fold.

[Raven_Crowking]

Agreed. Ghostwalk was one of the most interesting WotC products that came out of 3e.

[Clangador]

See also Goodman Games' Blades Against Death, and my own upcoming The Revelation of Mulmo, for ways to restore the dead.....maybe........

And page 285 of the DCC RPG rulebook.

That's cold... (I like it.)

[Clangador]

I have run DCC four times now. Two character funnels and two "regular" sessions. The thing that does worry me about this game is the mortality rate. My perception right now is that PCs have virtually no chance of reaching 10th level without dying.

[MrHemlocks]

From my experience as a DM it is hard to keep a player dead. With a decent cleric in the group death is not all that threatening. Even if the cleric fails his spell check there are rules that if the character can be reached in one hour or so, after reaching zero health, he might not be really dead. The character just needs to make a luck roll and is saved from death...again.

[Skars]

I think that with the exception of some (awesome) "save or die" type circumstances, the mortality rate sees exponential decay from level to level. It really depends on what sorts of circumstances you are pitting your pc's up against and the choices they make.

[CHC]

All I know is that I can't wait for a TPK so that I can run Blades Against Death... but set in one of the gleaming brass cities of Hell itself. Give 'em one last (slim) chance to save their own eternal souls before being damned to the wastes of everlasting Death -forever and always!

[Clangador]

Speaking of death, my son was playing last week. He had a 1st-level fighter and two 0-level peasants. His fighter accidentally killed one of his 0-level characters with a fumble. It was pretty funny.

[MrHemlocks]

With one cleric in a 1st level group no one should die. Even if the cleric messes things up the player still get a luck roll if his body can be reached in one hour. Characters are REAL hard to keep dead!

[Raven_Crowking]

And yet, my games have had a number of character deaths.

Anyone who wants to put the fear of Crom into 1st level PCs need only run James Raggi's excellent Death Frost Doom.