I stand corrected. And, that's awesome!Raven_Crowking wrote: ↑Tue Mar 03, 2020 12:44 pm By RAW, a Halfling fighting with two weapons automatically hits and crits on a 16. Armor Class be damned!
DCC Halfling only class that's worse than Basic D&D source
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Re: DCC Halfling only class that's worse than Basic D&D source
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Re: DCC Halfling only class that's worse than Basic D&D source
But what about an unnatural 16? For example, my halfling with +2 STR rolls a 14, and gets +2, for a total of 16. I call that a crit if it hits, but not an auto-hit. That's how I got such a high percentage in my earlier post. The rules seem to be ambiguous on that point, only mentioning warrior expanded threat ranges but not bonuses to rolls.Raven_Crowking wrote: ↑Tue Mar 03, 2020 12:44 pm By RAW, a Halfling fighting with two weapons automatically hits and crits on a 16. Armor Class be damned!
--------------
Chalmers frowned. "Harold, what would be a legal purpose for which to conjure a parrot?"
The Corpse that Love Built PbP:
Obadiah the Sharp: Chaotic Warrior (2nd level), Tax collector
Str: 15 (+1), Agi: 11 (0), Sta: 15 (+1), Per: 6 (-1), Int: 7 (-1), Luck: 7 (-1)
HP: 15/24; Speed: 25; Init: 2; AC: 15; Ref: 1; Fort: 2; Will: -1; Deed Die: d4
Main Weapon: Spear melee deed+1 (dmg 1d8+1+deed)
Secondary Weapon: Javelin melee deed+1 (dmg 1d6+1+deed) (x2)
Armor: Scale Mail (+4) Check penalty (-4) Fumble die (d12) Speed (-5)); Shield (+1) Check penalty (-1)
Equipment: Backpack, Rope - 50', Chain 10', iron spikes (3), small hammer, lantern, 3 flasks oil
Funds: 476 gp, 80 cp; Languages: Common
Chalmers frowned. "Harold, what would be a legal purpose for which to conjure a parrot?"
The Corpse that Love Built PbP:
Obadiah the Sharp: Chaotic Warrior (2nd level), Tax collector
Str: 15 (+1), Agi: 11 (0), Sta: 15 (+1), Per: 6 (-1), Int: 7 (-1), Luck: 7 (-1)
HP: 15/24; Speed: 25; Init: 2; AC: 15; Ref: 1; Fort: 2; Will: -1; Deed Die: d4
Main Weapon: Spear melee deed+1 (dmg 1d8+1+deed)
Secondary Weapon: Javelin melee deed+1 (dmg 1d6+1+deed) (x2)
Armor: Scale Mail (+4) Check penalty (-4) Fumble die (d12) Speed (-5)); Shield (+1) Check penalty (-1)
Equipment: Backpack, Rope - 50', Chain 10', iron spikes (3), small hammer, lantern, 3 flasks oil
Funds: 476 gp, 80 cp; Languages: Common
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Re: DCC Halfling only class that's worse than Basic D&D source
My understanding is the intent of crits are that they be natural. With the default case, only a nat 20 crits (not a modified roll to get 20); logically follows that only a nat 16 would crit in the Halfling's case and natural rolls in the expanded crit range for a Warrior. Allowing modified rolls to crit takes away some of the rush from rolling that number, especially if you're allowed to burn Luck to modify that roll thus guaranteeing a crit.
Trevor / Road Crew (Calgary)
---
Shaky, Gambler, N, AC 10, hp 1, S12 A9 S5-2 P9 I9 L9, r+0, f-2, w+0, club +0 (1d4)
Shifty, Smuggler, C, AC 11, hp 1, S9 A15+1 S5-2 P13+1 I8-1 L8-1, r+1, f-2, w+1, init+1, attack rolls -1, sling +0 (1d4)
The Illuminating Anhk, Elven Artisan, L, AC 10, hp 3, S11 A9 S9 P13+1 I10 L15+1, r+0, f+0, w+1, fumbles +1, staff +0 (1d4)
KIA Bailey Bramford, Beadle, L, AC 11, hp 1, S13+1 A13+1 S12 P5-2 I13+1 L11, r+1, f+0, w-2, init +1, staff +1 (1d4+1)
---
Shaky, Gambler, N, AC 10, hp 1, S12 A9 S5-2 P9 I9 L9, r+0, f-2, w+0, club +0 (1d4)
Shifty, Smuggler, C, AC 11, hp 1, S9 A15+1 S5-2 P13+1 I8-1 L8-1, r+1, f-2, w+1, init+1, attack rolls -1, sling +0 (1d4)
The Illuminating Anhk, Elven Artisan, L, AC 10, hp 3, S11 A9 S9 P13+1 I10 L15+1, r+0, f+0, w+1, fumbles +1, staff +0 (1d4)
KIA Bailey Bramford, Beadle, L, AC 11, hp 1, S13+1 A13+1 S12 P5-2 I13+1 L11, r+1, f+0, w-2, init +1, staff +1 (1d4+1)
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Re: DCC Halfling only class that's worse than Basic D&D source
Yeah. Natural dice results are what you’re looking for, for crits, fumbles, & Deeds.
Luck burn can raise the total result, perhaps turning a miss into a hit, but you can’t buy a crit (by RAW).
Luck burn can raise the total result, perhaps turning a miss into a hit, but you can’t buy a crit (by RAW).
...
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Re: DCC Halfling only class that's worse than Basic D&D source
Page 60:Judge_Yossarian wrote: ↑Wed Mar 04, 2020 6:10 pmBut what about an unnatural 16? For example, my halfling with +2 STR rolls a 14, and gets +2, for a total of 16. I call that a crit if it hits, but not an auto-hit. That's how I got such a high percentage in my earlier post. The rules seem to be ambiguous on that point, only mentioning warrior expanded threat ranges but not bonuses to rolls.Raven_Crowking wrote: ↑Tue Mar 03, 2020 12:44 pm By RAW, a Halfling fighting with two weapons automatically hits and crits on a 16. Armor Class be damned!
"Unlike other characters, when fighting with two weapons, a halfling scores a crit and automatic hit on any roll of a natural 16."
(emphasis mine)
SoBH pbp:
Cathbad the Meek (herbalist Wizard 1): AC 9; 4 hp; S 7, A 7, St 10, P 17, I 13, L 8; Neutral; Club, herbs, 50' rope, 50 cp; -1 to melee attack rolls. Hideous scar.
Cathbad the Meek (herbalist Wizard 1): AC 9; 4 hp; S 7, A 7, St 10, P 17, I 13, L 8; Neutral; Club, herbs, 50' rope, 50 cp; -1 to melee attack rolls. Hideous scar.
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Re: DCC Halfling only class that's worse than Basic D&D source
Yeah, I said that last page. hehe. Hmmm. Maybe halflings should be allowed to burn luck to get a critical hit? Might make them better at higher levels.
Re: DCC Halfling only class that's worse than Basic D&D source
I’m super late to this party, but I figure I’ll still throw in a few coppers.
In most cases, the halfling is perhaps not as an inspiring combatant as the warrior or dwarf, but not all cases. For those interested in the efficacy of the halfling combatant, you may find the following noteworthy:
Given that "adjusted AC" is target's AC minus your to-hit bonus, you are more likely to get a hit attacking with two weapons (than with one) if:
1. you are a halfling, and adj. AC is less than 14 or greater than 18.
2. your agility is greater than 17, and adj. AC is less than 17; note that crit. chances are reduced for warriors, however. 3. you are not a halfling, your agility is 16-17, and adj. AC is less than 14.
4. you are not a halfling, your agility is 12-15, and adj. AC is less than 13.
5. you are not a halfling, your agility is 9-11, and adj. AC is less than 10.
6. you are not a halfling, your agility is less than 9, and adj. AC is less than 7.
Most importantly, with regards to #1, if you’re up against something with an AC so large that your party must autohit to damage it, the halfling will hit at least once per round 12% of the time. Everyone else, 5% of the time. Details here:
http://spellburn.com/2016/01/17/episode ... rry-olson/
(See the link for “ Dual-Wielding Probabilities from Spellburn Episode 26”)
In short, don’t underestimate the autohit on nat 16.
I empathize with the class not meeting some expectations. If I were to modify them, I’d probably give them:
1. D24 or d30 saving throws...
2. And perhaps “halfling fury”:
Halfling Fury: if a halfling successfully hits a single target with both of the round’s attacks, they can burn 1 point of luck to immediately attack the target again. If that hits, they can burn 2 points of luck to attack the target again. And so on, until they miss or run out of luck.
With that being said, I don’t want to modify them. That class holds a soft spot in my heart. I always have fun playing them, and I always have fun judging them...especially when the associated player is somewhat “judicious” with how (and on whom) they spend their luck.
I was fortunate enough for my first DCC con game to be at Goodman’s table play testing a funnel (that unfortunately never saw the light of day). Of my 4 PCs, 3 died pretty quickly, but my halfling barber survived! With twin razors he made Sweeney Todd look like a pansy! He dominated until the final encounter, when he lost a Will save and cut out his own heart. C’est la vie.
Thanks everyone on this thread for a fun read!
In most cases, the halfling is perhaps not as an inspiring combatant as the warrior or dwarf, but not all cases. For those interested in the efficacy of the halfling combatant, you may find the following noteworthy:
Given that "adjusted AC" is target's AC minus your to-hit bonus, you are more likely to get a hit attacking with two weapons (than with one) if:
1. you are a halfling, and adj. AC is less than 14 or greater than 18.
2. your agility is greater than 17, and adj. AC is less than 17; note that crit. chances are reduced for warriors, however. 3. you are not a halfling, your agility is 16-17, and adj. AC is less than 14.
4. you are not a halfling, your agility is 12-15, and adj. AC is less than 13.
5. you are not a halfling, your agility is 9-11, and adj. AC is less than 10.
6. you are not a halfling, your agility is less than 9, and adj. AC is less than 7.
Most importantly, with regards to #1, if you’re up against something with an AC so large that your party must autohit to damage it, the halfling will hit at least once per round 12% of the time. Everyone else, 5% of the time. Details here:
http://spellburn.com/2016/01/17/episode ... rry-olson/
(See the link for “ Dual-Wielding Probabilities from Spellburn Episode 26”)
In short, don’t underestimate the autohit on nat 16.
I empathize with the class not meeting some expectations. If I were to modify them, I’d probably give them:
1. D24 or d30 saving throws...
2. And perhaps “halfling fury”:
Halfling Fury: if a halfling successfully hits a single target with both of the round’s attacks, they can burn 1 point of luck to immediately attack the target again. If that hits, they can burn 2 points of luck to attack the target again. And so on, until they miss or run out of luck.
With that being said, I don’t want to modify them. That class holds a soft spot in my heart. I always have fun playing them, and I always have fun judging them...especially when the associated player is somewhat “judicious” with how (and on whom) they spend their luck.
I was fortunate enough for my first DCC con game to be at Goodman’s table play testing a funnel (that unfortunately never saw the light of day). Of my 4 PCs, 3 died pretty quickly, but my halfling barber survived! With twin razors he made Sweeney Todd look like a pansy! He dominated until the final encounter, when he lost a Will save and cut out his own heart. C’est la vie.
Thanks everyone on this thread for a fun read!
Terry Olson
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Re: DCC Halfling only class that's worse than Basic D&D source
There are two "events", each has a 1/16 chance to happen. 256 total combined outcomes, 15/256 for first attack to crit, 15/256 for the second attack to crit, 1/256 for both to crit. 11.7% for either the first or second attack to crit, 0.39% for both to crit.
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Re: DCC Halfling only class that's worse than Basic D&D source
This needs to be explored further - perhaps at GaryCon.Pesky wrote: ↑Mon Mar 09, 2020 7:55 pm I was fortunate enough for my first DCC con game to be at Goodman’s table play testing a funnel (that unfortunately never saw the light of day). Of my 4 PCs, 3 died pretty quickly, but my halfling barber survived! With twin razors he made Sweeney Todd look like a pansy! He dominated until the final encounter, when he lost a Will save and cut out his own heart.
Re: DCC Halfling only class that's worse than Basic D&D source
@BanjoJohn: Exactly. That’s where my 12% to autohit at least once per round comes from.
@Jim Skatch: Yeah, ask Joseph; I will not be at Gary. Stephen Newton was also at the table, as was Steve Bean. That’s the limit of my memory, I’m afraid.
@Jim Skatch: Yeah, ask Joseph; I will not be at Gary. Stephen Newton was also at the table, as was Steve Bean. That’s the limit of my memory, I’m afraid.
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Re: DCC Halfling only class that's worse than Basic D&D source
Joseph won't be there either, last I heard...
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Re: DCC Halfling only class that's worse than Basic D&D source
This is why I love Terry and wish he were in my gaming group....Pesky wrote: ↑Mon Mar 09, 2020 7:55 pm I’m super late to this party, but I figure I’ll still throw in a few coppers.
In most cases, the halfling is perhaps not as an inspiring combatant as the warrior or dwarf, but not all cases. For those interested in the efficacy of the halfling combatant, you may find the following noteworthy:
Given that "adjusted AC" is target's AC minus your to-hit bonus, you are more likely to get a hit attacking with two weapons (than with one) if:
1. you are a halfling, and adj. AC is less than 14 or greater than 18.
2. your agility is greater than 17, and adj. AC is less than 17; note that crit. chances are reduced for warriors, however. 3. you are not a halfling, your agility is 16-17, and adj. AC is less than 14.
4. you are not a halfling, your agility is 12-15, and adj. AC is less than 13.
5. you are not a halfling, your agility is 9-11, and adj. AC is less than 10.
6. you are not a halfling, your agility is less than 9, and adj. AC is less than 7.
Most importantly, with regards to #1, if you’re up against something with an AC so large that your party must autohit to damage it, the halfling will hit at least once per round 12% of the time. Everyone else, 5% of the time. Details here:
http://spellburn.com/2016/01/17/episode ... rry-olson/
(See the link for “ Dual-Wielding Probabilities from Spellburn Episode 26”)
In short, don’t underestimate the autohit on nat 16.
I empathize with the class not meeting some expectations. If I were to modify them, I’d probably give them:
1. D24 or d30 saving throws...
2. And perhaps “halfling fury”:
Halfling Fury: if a halfling successfully hits a single target with both of the round’s attacks, they can burn 1 point of luck to immediately attack the target again. If that hits, they can burn 2 points of luck to attack the target again. And so on, until they miss or run out of luck.
With that being said, I don’t want to modify them. That class holds a soft spot in my heart. I always have fun playing them, and I always have fun judging them...especially when the associated player is somewhat “judicious” with how (and on whom) they spend their luck.
I was fortunate enough for my first DCC con game to be at Goodman’s table play testing a funnel (that unfortunately never saw the light of day). Of my 4 PCs, 3 died pretty quickly, but my halfling barber survived! With twin razors he made Sweeney Todd look like a pansy! He dominated until the final encounter, when he lost a Will save and cut out his own heart. C’est la vie.
Thanks everyone on this thread for a fun read!
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Re: DCC Halfling only class that's worse than Basic D&D source
Weisenwolf wrote: ↑Tue Dec 09, 2014 5:52 am
Well to start with if the Halfling already has 16+ DEX it’s not much of an improvement at all; no other skill has it's effect reduced in this way.
If you're generating characters as the book suggests, then how often are you going to have a halfling with 16+ Agility? Not very often at all!
I just ran a simulation using Purple Sorceror's 0-level character generator, and got exactly ZERO halflings with 16+ Agility out of ONE HUNDRED randomly generated 0-levels. (In fact, out of those 100 samples, I only had TWO characters of ANY race that had a Agility of 16+.)
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Re: DCC Halfling only class that's worse than Basic D&D source
Yeah sometimes I wonder, speculate, theorize, that the purple sorceror generator is broken, but I know that random numbers are random. I just never seem to randomly get a character with more (+) stats than (-) stats lol.DivineWannabe wrote: ↑Wed Mar 11, 2020 2:49 pmWeisenwolf wrote: ↑Tue Dec 09, 2014 5:52 am
Well to start with if the Halfling already has 16+ DEX it’s not much of an improvement at all; no other skill has it's effect reduced in this way.
If you're generating characters as the book suggests, then how often are you going to have a halfling with 16+ Agility? Not very often at all!
I just ran a simulation using Purple Sorceror's 0-level character generator, and got exactly ZERO halflings with 16+ Agility out of ONE HUNDRED randomly generated 0-levels. (In fact, out of those 100 samples, I only had TWO characters of ANY race that had a Agility of 16+.)
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Re: DCC Halfling only class that's worse than Basic D&D source
Well, the ones I generated on Purple Sorceror seem to be generally in line with the 0-level characters I have rolled by hand. I cannot say I have rolled over a hundred by hand, but I did roll 20 by hand a few months back.
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Re: DCC Halfling only class that's worse than Basic D&D source
Very late to the game here, but FWIW I've seen a lot of Halflings played, and I've never felt like they were underpowered to the point of disadvantage. To me, they play exactly like what they are: basically a Hobbit. They can sneak and hide easily, fit into small spaces, have infravision and reduced odds of fumbling, save allies with big Luck bonuses, fight well with two hands, and speak an extra language. They may not be Dragonkin, but they can hold their own!
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Re: DCC Halfling only class that's worse than Basic D&D source
"The halfling’s Luck modifier can apply to any roll made by an ally: attack rolls, damage rolls, saves, spell checks, thief skills, and so on" (DCC RPG 61).
Am I interpreting this correctly? If a party has a Halfling in the party with 16 Agility, then all allies that are "nearby and visible" gain a +1 to all their rolls.
I'm sorry if this has already been discussed.
Am I interpreting this correctly? If a party has a Halfling in the party with 16 Agility, then all allies that are "nearby and visible" gain a +1 to all their rolls.
I'm sorry if this has already been discussed.
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Re: DCC Halfling only class that's worse than Basic D&D source
Their ability to burn Luck for others, not their Luck Modifier (i.e., +1 for having a 13 Luck, etc.).
...
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Playing RPGs since '77 • Quasi-occasional member of the Legion of 8th-Level Fighters.
Link: Here Be 100+ DCC Monsters
bygrinstow.com - The Home of Inner Ham
Re: DCC Halfling only class that's worse than Basic D&D source
A more involved response than GnomeBoy's...:The Angry Monk wrote: ↑Fri Dec 03, 2021 8:07 am "The halfling’s Luck modifier can apply to any roll made by an ally: attack rolls, damage rolls, saves, spell checks, thief skills, and so on" (DCC RPG 61).
Am I interpreting this correctly? If a party has a Halfling in the party with 16 Agility, then all allies that are "nearby and visible" gain a +1 to all their rolls.
I'm sorry if this has already been discussed.
Taken out of context, it does indeed sound like you gain bonuses for simply letting the Halfling stay in the party. But consider the whole paragraph:
Third, a halfling’s luck can rub off on those around
him. The halfling can expend Luck to aid his allies.
The ally in question must be nearby and visible to
the halfling. The halfling can act out of initiative
order to burn Luck and apply it to the ally’s rolls. The
halfling loses the Luck, and the ally receives the benefit.
The halfling’s Luck modifier can apply to any roll made
by an ally: attack rolls, damage rolls, saves, spell checks,
thief skills, and so on.
This should make you realize the "modifier" discussed here is "it" as referenced by the fourth sentence: the benefit of burning Luck. Perhaps "modifier" was a poor choice of wording, but that is all there's to it. ("modifier" is pretty established as the static bonus or penalty derived from ability scores. I totally see how a reader like Angry Monk could be confused. Better would have been if the final sentence said "The halfling's Luck benefit...")
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Re: DCC Halfling only class that's worse than Basic D&D source
Agreed. It makes no sense for a halfling with a Luck score of 10 (modifier of 0) would then burn a point of Luck score to give someone else (or the halfling's self) a modifier of 0 to a roll.
Seems a better interpretation would be:
"The halfling's burned Luck point can modify any roll made by an ally: attack rolls, damage rolls, saves, spell checks, thief skills, and so on."
Seems a better interpretation would be:
"The halfling's burned Luck point can modify any roll made by an ally: attack rolls, damage rolls, saves, spell checks, thief skills, and so on."
“The wounds received in battle bestow honor, they do not take it away...”
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Re: DCC Halfling only class that's worse than Basic D&D source
Writing clear unambiguous rules is hard.
In this case, the writer clearly tried to avoid referencing the burnt point of Luck, since each point so burned yields two points of actual bonus.
How about:
"The benefit of a halfling burning Luck for an ally can apply to any roll made by that ally: attack rolls, damage rolls, saves, spell checks, thief skills, and so on."
I totally see why such a formal-sounding phrasing didn't immediately come to the DCC writer at the time, though.
Regardless, the important takeaway is to not rule Halfling characters just radiate bonuses for free (at least not because you believe that is what the rules intend. If you decide to rule Halflings that way anyway, despite knowing that's not intended, more power to you).
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Re: DCC Halfling only class that's worse than Basic D&D source
Thanks for the clarification, folks. You're right. Once I put in context to the rest of the paragraph, the sentence makes sense. Happy New Year!