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 Post subject: Word of Command
PostPosted: Wed Jul 22, 2015 8:00 pm 
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Gongfarmer

Joined: Wed Jul 22, 2015 7:48 pm
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I've a question concerning this spell.
Isn't too much powerful?
You can paralyze (hold) every sentient being that means basically everything from humanoid to slimes, undead or dragon. There is not even need that the target understand the language spoken as it works also on animals
So basically it can works as good as hold person, hold undead, hold animal and hold monster at the same time.
It seems too much powerful to me.
How do you manage it?


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 Post subject: Re: Word of Command
PostPosted: Thu Jul 23, 2015 6:53 am 
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Chaos-Summoning Sorcerer
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Joined: Wed Jan 05, 2011 5:34 pm
Posts: 783
Location: Győr, Hungary
Lordpiovra wrote:
I've a question concerning this spell.
Isn't too much powerful?

Every spell can be powerful in DCC RPG. Every spell can be weak in DCC RPG. Every spell can f*ck up either the target, or the caster for days or a lifetime in DCC RPG.


Lordpiovra wrote:
You can paralyze (hold) every sentient being...

Unless they misinterpret the command. For example, I would hold out something if I heard that. Freeze might be better, unless it's against a frost wizard.


Lordpiovra wrote:
...that means basically everything from humanoid to slimes, undead or dragon. There is not even need that the target understand the language spoken as it works also on animals

Undead are usually immune to sleep, charm, and hold spells. Dragons usually have good saving throws. I don't see any problem in a mental spell being effective on animals or slimes.


Lordpiovra wrote:
So basically it can works as good as hold person, hold undead, hold animal and hold monster at the same time.

Again, no hold undead. The rest is true, but such versatility and powerful effects are also true for Charm Person, Sleep, Scare. This is a feature, not a bug. Casters get quite few spells in DCC RPG, and the spells already eat one or two pages each, so it's better to make them more general. Who would want to waste space and spell slots for seperate Hold, Charm spells per creature type? Especially in DCC RPG, where it's advised to come up with new and unknown creatures every time. Hold Undead or Hold Animal might be useless for several adventures, and you can't sit down every morning and change your spell repertoire á la D&D, you only have what you've learned at level up - if a bad mercurial magic roll already didn't make it near-useless already.


Lordpiovra wrote:
It seems too much powerful to me.
How do you manage it?

Sure, it can be powerful. If the spellcaster rolls well, or he spellburns some, and the target is not immune to the effect and fails the saving throw... Truth to be told, I've found an amped up magic missile far more powerful. A wizard in my campaign usually did a massive spellburn at every major enemy and killed them with a single blast. Then the rest of the party carried around him and took care of his weakened, useless body for days. Good times!

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 Post subject: Re: Word of Command
PostPosted: Fri Jul 24, 2015 12:20 am 
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Gongfarmer

Joined: Wed Jul 22, 2015 7:48 pm
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FLGS: Na
Quote:
Undead are usually immune to sleep, charm, and hold spells


If I am allowed to digress, what is the source of this statement?

Immunity to paralysis is the only one that I was able to find.
According to DCC RPG Rules Errata: "Un-dead are immune tot he paralysis spell (not hold)"

On the opposite, concerning charm spell apparently:
"Wizards can attempt this spell on monsters and un-dead with a -2 check penalty and attempt to affect outsiders and demons with a -4 check penalty".

No specific information in the description of Sleep spell.

From my point of view, if an Un-dead is immune to Paralysis it's because he is just puppet without a functioning nervous system but, for this same reason, it should be also immune to Sleep (not specified so, I have to assume they are not immune).

But it should be the same logic of a Slime that should not be possible to affect by the "Word of Command" spell: I don't think a Slime can hear in a first instance.

At the end of the day, perhaps, each Judge may decide how to handle this.
However, it would be great to get an official clarification about this or, at least, understand how everybody is managing these issues.


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 Post subject: Re: Word of Command
PostPosted: Fri Jul 24, 2015 12:32 am 
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Chaos-Summoning Sorcerer
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Joined: Wed Jan 05, 2011 5:34 pm
Posts: 783
Location: Győr, Hungary
Lordpiovra wrote:
Quote:
Undead are usually immune to sleep, charm, and hold spells

If I am allowed to digress, what is the source of this statement?

Check out the monster descriptions in bestiary for ghouls, mummies, shadows, skeletons, zombies.

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 Post subject: Re: Word of Command
PostPosted: Fri Jul 24, 2015 8:14 am 
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Mighty-Thewed Reaver
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Joined: Sat Apr 23, 2011 10:36 am
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I'm okay with it, chiefly because it's a cleric spell - no spellburn to semi-regularly launch the spellcheck into the 24+ results.

I'd actually allow it to work on undead. If a cleric can use a symbol of their god to turn such creatures, it just doesn't make sense (to me, anyway) that they can ignore (quoting from the spell's description) the "commanding will of (the cleric's) deity" without even making a save.

That said, I see where Ravenheart is coming from. Each un-dead description mentions that they are immune to "sleep, charm, & paralysis spells, as well as other mental effects".

Re: dragons & slimes*: Dragons shouldn't have much to fear because of their afore-mentioned high saves (avg dragon = +5 and up), plus many of them can spell duel. Slimes, I'd agree that they should probably be exempt due to being incapable of hearing, but I'd likely rule in the players' favor on that.

*Worst fantasy heartbreaker ever.


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 Post subject: Re: Word of Command
PostPosted: Fri Jul 24, 2015 9:25 am 
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Cold-Hearted Immortal
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Location: Left Coast, USA
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Rick wrote:
If a cleric can use a symbol of their god to turn such creatures, it just doesn't make sense (to me, anyway) that they can ignore (quoting from the spell's description) the "commanding will of (the cleric's) deity" without even making a save.

Of course, Turning is an effect specifically about "You are unclean in the eyes of Crom", directed against a specific set of creatures — whereas the spell is a more general "Hey, all y'all, do what my boy says, k?".

But I totally get where you're coming from.


— Oh, and when you launch that Kickstarter for Dragons & Slimes, just remember to post about it here so I can get in on it. :wink:

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Gnome Boy (a.k.a. "Jon") • DCC play-tester @ DDC 35, Feb 2011. • Beta DL 2111, 7:00 AM PT, 8 June 11.
Playing RPGs since 1977 • Quasi-occasional member of the Legion of 8th-Level Fighters - Holds the power to play gnomes at will!

Here Be DCC Monsters...

General Yoros, Warrior, Str 13, Agl 8 (10), Stm 17, Per 13, Int 11, Lck 8; Law, HP 39, AC 17, R+2, F+4, W+2, band/shld, warhammer, longsword, longbow, pitchfork

Han Dee, (Weaver) Neutral Thief, Str 10, Agi 13, Stm 11, Per 11, Int 15, Lck 14, AC 13 (Leather), HP 25, Luck Die d6, Backstab 3, Sneak Silently 10, Hide In Shadows 9, Pick Pocket 10, Climb Sheer 10, Pick Lock 9, Find Trap 9, Disable Trap 9, Forge Doc 10, Disguise 3, Read Lang 5, Handle Poison 3, Cast Scroll d14+2, birth augur (Born under the loom) +1 to all skill checks (including thief skills), Banepicks (auto pick lock/disable trap, but lose 1d3 random ability loss, if a 3 then 1 pt is perm)


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