Luck penalty and zero luck

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Leopoldy
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Luck penalty and zero luck

Post by Leopoldy » Wed Aug 21, 2019 3:48 am

Hello,

DCC Judge's rules often refers to "Luck penalty", but i don't really understand what does it mean and how it literally affects luck mechanic. For example: I'm warrior with Luck abillity score of 5 and so my luck modifier is -2. Some kind of deity that i've offended gives me curse Luck penalty -4. How does it interprets mechanicly? Does this burn permantly 4 luck abillity score, which makes my Luck abillity score 1 or does it mean that just my rolles where luck modifier is included becomes -6 instead of -2?

Also, what happens when character's Luck abillity score became 0. Does he becomes so unlucky that he automaticly fails any his checks? How do you deal with this?


Thanks in advance!

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GnomeBoy
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Re: Luck penalty and zero luck

Post by GnomeBoy » Thu Aug 22, 2019 6:47 am

A Luck penalty is a loss of Luck, and the score is reduced. From a source like a god, it might be a "permanent" reduction, meaning that even a Thief or Halfling's maximum might be knocked down.

So your 5 Luck Warrior would now have a Luck of 1. That's as bad as you as the Judge want to make it. It could just mean constant minor mishaps, like spilling your coffee and dropping your donut (frosting side down, of course). The meaning of such a Luck score is left to your own interpretation of "out of Luck" and what that might mean in the world you're playing in. It may drag the party down, because no "handy benefactor" will ever appear from the woodwork to help the party or hire them.

Whether 0 or 1 is the minimum possible is up to you. I prefer 1, since it still means a 1-in-20 chance of making a "roll under" type of check, and I prefer there to be a chance, however slim it is.

Of course, characters can do things to attempt to actively raise their Luck, and the end of each adventure should come with a small Luck reward for completing the adventure, so if that Warrior is diligent, they can work their way back up...
Gnome Boy • DCC playtester @ DDC 35 Feb '11. • Beta DL 2111, 7AM PT, 8 June 11.
Playing RPGs since '77 • Quasi-occasional member of the Legion of 8th-Level Fighters.

Link: Here Be 100+ DCC Monsters

bygrinstow.com

Kuruz, Mendicant, N • AC 8, 4 hp • R-1, F0, W0 • S9 A8 S9 P11 I16 L8
Zend, Grave Digger, L • AC 9, 3 hp • R-1, F0, W1 • S14 A6 S9 P13 I13 L6
Mercer, Outlaw, N • AC 12, 2 hp • R0, F-1, W1 • S7 A9 S6 P13 I8 L13
Dejah, Ropemaker, C • AC 10, 2 hp • R0, F1, W-1 • S8 A12 S15 P7 I11 L7

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Raven_Crowking
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Re: Luck penalty and zero luck

Post by Raven_Crowking » Thu Sep 19, 2019 8:49 am

In my games, going to 0 Luck is possible, but always fatal for the character.

Your Luck, literally, runs out.
SoBH pbp:

Cathbad the Meek (herbalist Wizard 1): AC 9; 4 hp; S 7, A 7, St 10, P 17, I 13, L 8; Neutral; Club, herbs, 50' rope, 50 cp; -1 to melee attack rolls. Hideous scar.

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Re: Luck penalty and zero luck

Post by Jim Skach » Thu Sep 19, 2019 1:36 pm

Yeah 0 is a death knell.

I ran a round 1 table at the GenCon tourney this year, and one of the characters when to...I think it was 1 Luck, Pretty much every time he tried to do something, the worst possible thing happened - he tripped and broke an ankle: 1d3 Damage and -10 movement. It was just a constant series of mishaps and accidents until he was dead. And that was at 1.

IIRC, the book says...oh yeah, here it is...
Ability loss: Some attacks cause ability loss. A target reduced to 0 Personality or Intelligence is a babbling idiot incapable of feeding himself. A target reduced to 0 Strength or Agility is incapable of movement. A target reduced to 0 Stamina faints and remains unconscious. A target reduced to 0 Luck suffers such constant, bizarre mishaps that he is effectively unable to accomplish anything. Ability loss heals over time, as described on page 94.

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Re: Luck penalty and zero luck

Post by Goldberg » Mon Nov 11, 2019 12:31 pm

Jim Skach wrote: IIRC, the book says...oh yeah, here it is...
Ability loss: Some attacks cause ability loss. A target reduced to 0 Personality or Intelligence is a babbling idiot incapable of feeding himself. A target reduced to 0 Strength or Agility is incapable of movement. A target reduced to 0 Stamina faints and remains unconscious. A target reduced to 0 Luck suffers such constant, bizarre mishaps that he is effectively unable to accomplish anything. Ability loss heals over time, as described on page 94.
If it heals, it shouldn't be fatal

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Re: Luck penalty and zero luck

Post by Jim Skach » Fri Nov 15, 2019 6:04 am

Luck is different. It never "heals"...unless you're a Thief or Halfling. Otherwise, it is more akin to rewards for service to gods, patrons, alignment, etc. All of those things are on a much longer time scale than the compressed time in a tournament.

In a campaign, it would have been extremely difficult but a player could recover from 0 luck. In theory....

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Re: Luck penalty and zero luck

Post by Jim Skach » Fri Nov 15, 2019 6:10 am

And, in case someone wants to throw a RAW at me...here's the text referred to in the quote: page 94 (emphasis mine)....
Ability score loss, except for Luck, heals at the same rate: 1 point with a good night’s rest, and 2 points with a day of bed rest.
.
.
.
Luck, however, does not heal. Repeat: lost Luck does not heal. Except for the special abilities of halflings and thieves, a character who burns Luck does so permanently. Luck can be restored in the same way that a man normally gains good or bad luck – by appealing to the gods. Great acts of courage in defense of one’s deity may earn a boon, just as acts in opposition to a devil may earn a curse. The judge can tell you more about Luck…

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Raven_Crowking
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Re: Luck penalty and zero luck

Post by Raven_Crowking » Fri Nov 15, 2019 6:40 am

"Luck can be restored in the same way that a man normally gains good or bad luck – by appealing to the gods. Great acts of courage in defense of one’s deity may earn a boon, just as acts in opposition to a devil may earn a curse."

IOW, if your Luck is getting low, you may wish to appeal to the gods before it reaches 0. Yes, you might owe Bobugbibilz a favor, but at least you are alive to repay it.
SoBH pbp:

Cathbad the Meek (herbalist Wizard 1): AC 9; 4 hp; S 7, A 7, St 10, P 17, I 13, L 8; Neutral; Club, herbs, 50' rope, 50 cp; -1 to melee attack rolls. Hideous scar.

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GnomeBoy
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Re: Luck penalty and zero luck

Post by GnomeBoy » Fri Nov 15, 2019 6:41 am

Goldberg wrote:If it heals, it shouldn't be fatal
Not sure where that conclusion is coming from... Not to get morbid, but plenty of stuff in the real world can be healed from, but is also fatal in a bad enough case. The flu is one example.

But, um, hit points... Your character can heal hit points -- but if they lose all of them your character may be dead.
Gnome Boy • DCC playtester @ DDC 35 Feb '11. • Beta DL 2111, 7AM PT, 8 June 11.
Playing RPGs since '77 • Quasi-occasional member of the Legion of 8th-Level Fighters.

Link: Here Be 100+ DCC Monsters

bygrinstow.com

Kuruz, Mendicant, N • AC 8, 4 hp • R-1, F0, W0 • S9 A8 S9 P11 I16 L8
Zend, Grave Digger, L • AC 9, 3 hp • R-1, F0, W1 • S14 A6 S9 P13 I13 L6
Mercer, Outlaw, N • AC 12, 2 hp • R0, F-1, W1 • S7 A9 S6 P13 I8 L13
Dejah, Ropemaker, C • AC 10, 2 hp • R0, F1, W-1 • S8 A12 S15 P7 I11 L7

Starbeard
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Re: Luck penalty and zero luck

Post by Starbeard » Sun Nov 17, 2019 10:47 am

The book is pretty silent on how much Luck to award or penalize, but it'd be nice to have an idea of what numbers were used in playtesting so that we have at least a statement of intent.

When it says that Luck can awarded at the end of an adventure, how much are we usually talking about here? Is 3 points too much? Should every one get a little Luck, or should only those who shone out above the rest get a boost? Should we think of it like Force Points in D6 Star Wars, where you really only get Luck back if you spend it to doing something risky and momentous, and those who play smart and safe shouldn't get any?

I realize that all of these are based on table dynamics, like how often the group plays, how many PCs there are, whether the game is a series of one-shots or a traditional campaign, etc. But I'd to hear how the people here actually use Luck awards and penalties, and how they balance them to the game they're running.

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Re: Luck penalty and zero luck

Post by GnomeBoy » Sun Nov 17, 2019 8:36 pm

I'll easily give out 1 to 3 to everybody, per adventure, the same reward for each member of the group. I'm sure I've occasionally exceeded that range, if sessions were especially fun for everyone.

If someone does something outstanding during the adventure, I will give 1 point of Luck to them on the spot -- it's usually the kind of stuff that gets the table excited, so it's easy to spot.

Sometimes, if someone cracks a particularly good joke that suits the situation, I'll grant a Luck point to everyone.

We're here to have fun. No need to be stingy.
Gnome Boy • DCC playtester @ DDC 35 Feb '11. • Beta DL 2111, 7AM PT, 8 June 11.
Playing RPGs since '77 • Quasi-occasional member of the Legion of 8th-Level Fighters.

Link: Here Be 100+ DCC Monsters

bygrinstow.com

Kuruz, Mendicant, N • AC 8, 4 hp • R-1, F0, W0 • S9 A8 S9 P11 I16 L8
Zend, Grave Digger, L • AC 9, 3 hp • R-1, F0, W1 • S14 A6 S9 P13 I13 L6
Mercer, Outlaw, N • AC 12, 2 hp • R0, F-1, W1 • S7 A9 S6 P13 I8 L13
Dejah, Ropemaker, C • AC 10, 2 hp • R0, F1, W-1 • S8 A12 S15 P7 I11 L7

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Re: Luck penalty and zero luck

Post by Jim Skach » Mon Nov 18, 2019 6:07 am

GnomeBoy wrote:If someone does something outstanding during the adventure, I will give 1 point of Luck to them on the spot -- it's usually the kind of stuff that gets the table excited, so it's easy to spot.

Sometimes, if someone cracks a particularly good joke that suits the situation, I'll grant a Luck point to everyone.

We're here to have fun. No need to be stingy.
For these purposes, I use Fleeting Luck. Poker Chips flying around the table....

Jim Skach
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Re: Luck penalty and zero luck

Post by Jim Skach » Mon Nov 18, 2019 6:22 am

Starbeard wrote:The book is pretty silent on how much Luck to award or penalize, but it'd be nice to have an idea of what numbers were used in playtesting so that we have at least a statement of intent.

When it says that Luck can awarded at the end of an adventure, how much are we usually talking about here? Is 3 points too much? Should every one get a little Luck, or should only those who shone out above the rest get a boost? Should we think of it like Force Points in D6 Star Wars, where you really only get Luck back if you spend it to doing something risky and momentous, and those who play smart and safe shouldn't get any?

I realize that all of these are based on table dynamics, like how often the group plays, how many PCs there are, whether the game is a series of one-shots or a traditional campaign, etc. But I'd to hear how the people here actually use Luck awards and penalties, and how they balance them to the game they're running.
The answer to every question you asked is....yes. wait, no. wait....

This is one of those opportunities where alignments and Patrons and Gods (Oh My) came into play for our game...and I'd suggest the same. I mean, I can see giving everyone a point of Luck (though usually thieves and halflings don't really need it) just for surviving. Then, for me, it would depend significantly on how the outcome affected the aforementioned three things. Did you further your patrons goals? Is your god happy with the outcome? Did you increase the likelihood that Law will triumph in the Great Game?

But I could totally see a table where it was based on how you used the Luck (as you mention).

As for statements of intent, it's there in the rule book....

Page 18
Players would be well advised to understand the goals of gods and demons that shape the world around them, for they are but pawns in a cosmic struggle, and their luck on this mortal plane can be influenced by the eternal conflict that rages around them.
Page 19
For all characters, Luck may be restored over the course of their adventures, and this restoration process is loosely linked to the character’s alignment. Characters that act against their alignment may find themselves suddenly unlucky. Those who swear an oath to a patron of their newly desired alignment may find the change easier.
Page 94
Luck, however, does not heal. Repeat: lost Luck does not heal. Except for the special abilities of halflings and thieves, a character who burns Luck does so permanently. Luck can be restored in the same way that a man normally gains good or bad luck – by appealing to the gods. Great acts of courage in defense of one’s deity may earn a boon, just as acts in opposition to a devil may earn a curse.
And in particular, there's an entire section on pages 360-361 that explains it in quite a bit of detail.

But know this - in the end, it is highly unlikely that you will find a universal/RAW/prescribed formula for how to handle Luck. DCC just ain't that game....

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GnomeBoy
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Re: Luck penalty and zero luck

Post by GnomeBoy » Mon Nov 18, 2019 6:41 am

Jim Skach wrote:
GnomeBoy wrote:If someone ... be stingy.
For these purposes, I use Fleeting Luck. Poker Chips flying around the table....
I *still* haven't gotten around to Fleeting Luck!

Until last year, all of my DCC has been very piecemeal and fragmented, and I feel like I've only just gotten around to the reality of the "Luck economy". Now, with a semi-regular group wanting to play it semi-regularly, I can finally get a good feel for that and for other things that come with contiguous play...!
Gnome Boy • DCC playtester @ DDC 35 Feb '11. • Beta DL 2111, 7AM PT, 8 June 11.
Playing RPGs since '77 • Quasi-occasional member of the Legion of 8th-Level Fighters.

Link: Here Be 100+ DCC Monsters

bygrinstow.com

Kuruz, Mendicant, N • AC 8, 4 hp • R-1, F0, W0 • S9 A8 S9 P11 I16 L8
Zend, Grave Digger, L • AC 9, 3 hp • R-1, F0, W1 • S14 A6 S9 P13 I13 L6
Mercer, Outlaw, N • AC 12, 2 hp • R0, F-1, W1 • S7 A9 S6 P13 I8 L13
Dejah, Ropemaker, C • AC 10, 2 hp • R0, F1, W-1 • S8 A12 S15 P7 I11 L7

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