Limits on magical healing

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redherringj
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Limits on magical healing

Post by redherringj » Sat Apr 26, 2014 5:35 am

I did some forum searching but found no mention of this:
Though in the cleric's class description it does say that a cleric may heal effects rather than Hp, it doesn't mention healing ability score damage. Additionally, under the description of ability damage, bed rest is the only stated method of healing. So: can a cleric heal lost ability scores or no?

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finarvyn
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Re: Limits on magical healing

Post by finarvyn » Sun Apr 27, 2014 4:01 am

I believe the answer is "no." At least, I can't recall seeing it in the rules, either. (But, hey, I'm half blind so maybe I missed it. :? )
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cjoepar
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Re: Limits on magical healing

Post by cjoepar » Sun Apr 27, 2014 2:07 pm

The second level Cleric spell "Restore Vitality" allows a cleric to do so. :wink:

I suppose a cleric could also probably petition his deity for a special case restoration using the Divine Aid ability, too.

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Rick
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Re: Limits on magical healing

Post by Rick » Sun Apr 27, 2014 3:11 pm

Heed page 108, however!
Healing spellburn damage: In playtests, many wizards
attempted to partner with clerics to reduce the impact of
spellburn. A common action is to have a cleric handy to
heal ability score damage as the wizard utilized spellburn.
The author encourages the judge and players to remember
the underlying role playing activities associated with these
actions. Spellburn represents a mortal sacrifice to a supernatural
entity for strictly selfish purposes. A cleric’s ability
to heal represents drawing on the power of a god to further
that god’s agenda in the mortal realms. These are inherently
contradictory activities
. A god that observes his follower repeatedly
healing a devotee of another entity, whose self inflicted
wounds serve no greater agenda than a personal
pursuit of power, will surely object to that cleric’s action!
Clerics who engage in this sort of behavior will soon find
themselves out of favor with their divine allies.
t

Tortog
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Re: Limits on magical healing

Post by Tortog » Sat May 03, 2014 2:25 pm

Just my 2cp on pg. 108...

I have always thought that this part:
Spellburn represents a mortal sacrifice to a supernatural
entity for strictly selfish purposes. A cleric’s ability
to heal represents drawing on the power of a god to further
that god’s agenda in the mortal realms. These are inherently
contradictory activities.
...is too simplistic in its approach. The reasons behind why a wizard is committing spellburn are as unique as their spell lists; their motivations are entirely up to the player and how they want to play their character. As for the interaction between deities and wizards, I should think that how things play out is entirely dependent upon the deity and its POV on the wizard's actions. Somehow I don't think that the evil or chaotic deities would have any objection to any selfish motivations on the wizard's part. Likewise, I don't think that a good or honorable deity would fail to reward a wizard with extra healing if the spellburn was committed as part of an action/ battle that the deity feels is noble or noteworthy. In the same vein of thought, any character that has drifted to the extreme side of Law, Good, Evil, Chaos could find themselves on the receiving end of the ire of at least some of the neutral deities and their corporeal minions. :)

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DM Cojo
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Re: Limits on magical healing

Post by DM Cojo » Sat May 03, 2014 3:16 pm

One way to mitigate this kind of metagaming, and encourage the role playing aspects of spellburning, is to use the alternate spellburn effects table created by my friend Judge Hook.

http://www.goodman-games.com/forums/vie ... +spellburn

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DM Cojo
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Re: Limits on magical healing

Post by DM Cojo » Sat May 03, 2014 3:18 pm

One thing that came up in a recent game is whether or not a cleric can heal the effect of petrification (basilisk, medusa, cockatrice, etc)? I ruled it required 4 dice of healing...how would others handle that?

oncelor
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Re: Limits on magical healing

Post by oncelor » Mon May 05, 2014 6:34 pm

DM Cojo wrote:One thing that came up in a recent game is whether or not a cleric can heal the effect of petrification (basilisk, medusa, cockatrice, etc)? I ruled it required 4 dice of healing...how would others handle that?
Since the only ways to reverse petrification given in the rules is a roll of 34-35 on the 4th level Wizard spell "Transmute Earth" or by casting the reverse of "Flesh to Stone," a 3rd level wizard spell, in our campaign I reckoned that it should be pretty hard for a cleric to duplicate these effects. I allowed it once with a DC 18 Divine Intervention check. I allowed a character who was trapped in a pillar of magical amber by a fairy -- which is kind of like petrification -- to be freed with a "remove curse" that allowed a new saving throw on a major curse, and I might allow remove curse to undo a regular petrification affect.

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Re: Limits on magical healing

Post by Tortog » Mon May 12, 2014 7:03 pm

DM Cojo wrote:One way to mitigate this kind of metagaming, and encourage the role playing aspects of spellburning, is to use the alternate spellburn effects table created by my friend Judge Hook.

http://www.goodman-games.com/forums/vie ... +spellburn
Not sure how 'metagaming' applies in this context, but I like the alternate spellburn table and mechanic. If for no other reason than with everyone rolling on the same chart it will speed up game play by not having to listen to ever more gruesome (and time consuming) descriptions of character's attempts at self mutilation/humiliation. It can get really bad when there are multiple wizards in play and they start competing for who can be more horrific. :roll:

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Stretch
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Re: Limits on magical healing

Post by Stretch » Wed May 14, 2014 4:20 am

One way I have thought to handle petrification type spells is to have them go into effect after a certain duration. Say six rounds. It starts at the feet, eliminating movement and slowly moves up each round. If they can kill the offending creature before it completely consumes the character then the spell is broken. I don't tell them how many rounds they have, I prefer to do that through description so as to heighten the danger. But it allows for a character to still take actions, albeit stationary ones, and for the rest of the party to be working on a deadline. And of course there is no guarantee that the next time it won't proceed faster. I don't want them thinking they will always have that much time. {Random die rolls to determine the duration depending upon creature power 1d3, 1d4, 1d6, 1d8, 2d4, etc.} As to healing....Cure Paralysis. If you look at the description it states a more powerful casting can also cure petrification and other motion limiting effects. If the cleric's God doesn't allow that spell then maybe he would help out with a Divine Intervention. Maybe not. They might have to quest for a way to bring their friend back from the stone age. Could be a whole storyline from that or it could be as simple as making a large donation to a local temple whose God does grant access to Cure Paralysis.


The one side effect of handling petrification this way is that when a petrification spell goes off but only partially succeeds the players have no idea the first couple of rounds if it is a partial or if it will eventually engulf them. Keeps them freaking out if that stone arm might become a stone shoulder the next round.

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cjoepar
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Re: Limits on magical healing

Post by cjoepar » Wed May 14, 2014 7:25 am

Stretch wrote:One way I have thought to handle petrification type spells is to have them go into effect after a certain duration. Say six rounds. It starts at the feet, eliminating movement and slowly moves up each round. If they can kill the offending creature before it completely consumes the character then the spell is broken. I don't tell them how many rounds they have, I prefer to do that through description so as to heighten the danger. But it allows for a character to still take actions, albeit stationary ones, and for the rest of the party to be working on a deadline. And of course there is no guarantee that the next time it won't proceed faster. I don't want them thinking they will always have that much time. {Random die rolls to determine the duration depending upon creature power 1d3, 1d4, 1d6, 1d8, 2d4, etc.}
This sounds like a really fun way to handle it. Even if it doesn't happen this way every time, it's still a great way to describe the results during a specific encounter.

oncelor
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Re: Limits on magical healing

Post by oncelor » Thu Jun 26, 2014 10:40 pm

The gradual petrification rule is neat. I think I will build that into the next level of the pyramid my party is exploring.

In a 3e game I was running I ruled that a thief who missed his petrification save by 1 had only his left forearm petrified. The guy played this character for about thirty sessions this way and found many creative uses for his stony appendage, especially in conjunction with the earth priest's stone shape spell.

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