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PostPosted: Mon Feb 03, 2014 3:34 pm 
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Far-Sighted Wanderer

Joined: Thu Jan 23, 2014 2:48 pm
Posts: 35
Next weekend I will play with my friends the Portal under the stars.
First DCC game for all of us, but all veteran players. I already read the rulebook almost twice (except the spells) but still have some doubts regarding the rules for zero levels:

-No magical healing? I haven't seen any reference to mundane healing, healing with bandages, first aid skills, or similar.
Specially when someone falls at zero hp, can be stabilized with bandages? magical healing is the only healing available in the game?

-Any 0 level human can became wizard? for instance: Otto the cheesemaker survives the funnel and decides to became lvl 1 wizard, and "SHAZAM!" and now you are wizard! that easy?
In the book, when talking about wizards, mentions "the long years spend learning magic etc etc", five minutes ago this guy was a cheesemaker. It's ok like that? any kind of trainings?
I was thinking to invent some excuse like a brainwashing spell dispelled by the funnel.

-level 0 Demihumans, which of their racial skills are innate and which are acquired after reaching lvl 1? dark vision?
the halfling luck charm?

-I was planning to give the party a couple of magic items at the beginning of the game, one parchment that will disappear after read, and a weapon giving one use of Mighty Deed of Arms (+1d3), in order to allow the players test the rules and tease them for a next session, Any suggestion?

Thanks for your advice!


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 03, 2014 5:02 pm 
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Cold-Hearted Immortal
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Joined: Fri Mar 10, 2006 1:46 pm
Posts: 3360
Location: Left Coast, USA
FLGS: Bizarro World
Okay, firstly, let me say that a 'magic weapon' that grants Mighty Deeds is fairly awesome. 8)

There is healing. But not for 0 Level characters. No rolling over the body, etc. (though some do it anyway). The "Funnel" is sort of a game-wtihin-a-game, and plays slightly differently than the rest of the game. When a Zero gets to 0 hp, he's done. It'd be reasonable to assume that given time to heal, a Zero with 3 hp taken down to 1 hp can heal back up to 3 -- but in the scope of a Funnel adventure, that's not really a good idea. The whole point of the Funnel is to winnow down the pool of characters to a few survivors.

Any human can become a Wizard, yes. How long this takes has been discussed. The short answer is you're either going to have a vague 'time passes' comment between your Funnel and your further adventures, or you're going to hand-wave it and say "he's been studying for years, and since we encountered all that otherworldly stuff (in the Funnel), it's started to make sense..." and just have it happen 'instantly', so to speak.

Page 21 covers your Demihumans at 9 Level.

_________________
Gnome Boy • DCC playtester @ DDC 35 Feb '11. • Beta DL 2111, 7AM PT, 8 June 11.
Playing RPGs since '77 • Quasi-occasional member of the Legion of 8th-Level Fighters.

Link: Here Be DCC Monsters

PbP Purple Planeteers!

Havarth • Cleric/Zikcub • Animal trainr • L
S11 A11 S9 P15 I9 L7 • AC10, HP12, R0 F1 W2
Glaive+0 1-10
Club+0 1-4
X' chain, sack
Bless, Dtct Ev, Prot fm Evil, Word oCmmnd

Lucius • Cleric/Verlore • Slave • N
S13 A11 S8 P15 I11 L11 • AC10+, HP6, R0 F0 W2
Sword+1 _
Club+1 2-5
Hide armor, flint/steel, green stone, oil 1
Crit table +1
Dark, Holy Sanct, Resist Cold/Heat, Word o Cmmnd

Toby • Squire
S13 A10 S14 P15 I16 L9 • AC10+, hp3, R0 F1 W1
Lg swrd+1 2-9
Scale armor, sack, helm, L’ rope, torch • Com, Chaos, Hobgob

Kelven • Smuggler
S14 A8 S11 P12 I7 L10 • AC9+, hp2(4), In-1, R-1 F0 W0
Sword+1 _
Staff+1 or Sling -1 2-5
Scale armr, waterprf sack, L’ rope, torch, 39cp

RIP
Stinky Pete, Ostler — Spine snapped by tackling Kith


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 03, 2014 5:03 pm 
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Wild-Eyed Zealot

Joined: Fri Apr 06, 2012 12:55 pm
Posts: 93
Welcome!

(1) Yep, no magical healing. When they get to 0hp, they die. That way you can funnel down to just one or two per person in one session. As for natural healing, it's detailed on page 94 of the core book, but I can't imagine it would come up in many funnels.

(2) Agreed about the disconnect sometimes when 0-levels "ping" up to level one. There was a thread about it a while back -- maybe someone can supply? I think some people had good solutions.

(3) See page 21:

0-level demi-humans are able to utilize select racial traits as follows: dwarves have infravision and a base speed of 20’; elves are sensitive to iron and have heightened senses; and halflings have infravision. Refer to the dwarf, elf, and halfling class descriptions for more information on these abilities. 0-level demi-humans speak Common plus their racial language, with additional languages gained as they level up. Just as all characters gain improved abilities and, sometimes, additional languages when they reach level 1, demihuman characters polish their natural talents through adventuring.

(4) I would resist the urge. One of the great things about DCC is that it keeps magic mysterious and wild rather than mundane and predictable. I've tried to make magic items rare, powerful and terrifying to reduce the feeling of "Yawn -- another +2 sword"

[ETA == dang it! Beaten by a gnome!]


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 03, 2014 5:22 pm 
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Advice in summary:
*** Resist the urge to change the rules unless you are just adding new random charts or something like this (good for zeros) :

http://www.goodman-games.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=87551#p87551

***zero level adventures should be allowed to die. Again resist the urge to fix what is not broken.


*** 0 to lst level disconnect: time to get creative, lots of options, use this as practice for an attitude towards the entire game. The rules don't always answer your questions, they sometimes propose them. Don't be afraid. You can do it.


*** Don't give them a weapon that does deeds, like previous advice , keep magic magical and mysterious. Keep it dark, dirty and dangerous. It is not an iPhone or even a telephone at all it is Anton Lavey. Resist the urge to undermine that right off the bat. If you have to tease them, give them a spell in a crappy old book or a rotten scroll and make it really hard to cast properly, and only usable once. It will be just as much fun if it corrupts someone. That kind of thing.

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dk@dougkovacs.com
http://dougkovacs.com
The Drain Chamber (Blog)
http://dougkovacs.com/dkblog/


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 03, 2014 8:09 pm 
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Cold-Hearted Immortal
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Joined: Fri Mar 10, 2006 1:46 pm
Posts: 3360
Location: Left Coast, USA
FLGS: Bizarro World
jozxyqk wrote:
[ETA == dang it! Beaten by a gnome!]

You say that like you didn't think such a thing was possible! 8)

_________________
Gnome Boy • DCC playtester @ DDC 35 Feb '11. • Beta DL 2111, 7AM PT, 8 June 11.
Playing RPGs since '77 • Quasi-occasional member of the Legion of 8th-Level Fighters.

Link: Here Be DCC Monsters

PbP Purple Planeteers!

Havarth • Cleric/Zikcub • Animal trainr • L
S11 A11 S9 P15 I9 L7 • AC10, HP12, R0 F1 W2
Glaive+0 1-10
Club+0 1-4
X' chain, sack
Bless, Dtct Ev, Prot fm Evil, Word oCmmnd

Lucius • Cleric/Verlore • Slave • N
S13 A11 S8 P15 I11 L11 • AC10+, HP6, R0 F0 W2
Sword+1 _
Club+1 2-5
Hide armor, flint/steel, green stone, oil 1
Crit table +1
Dark, Holy Sanct, Resist Cold/Heat, Word o Cmmnd

Toby • Squire
S13 A10 S14 P15 I16 L9 • AC10+, hp3, R0 F1 W1
Lg swrd+1 2-9
Scale armor, sack, helm, L’ rope, torch • Com, Chaos, Hobgob

Kelven • Smuggler
S14 A8 S11 P12 I7 L10 • AC9+, hp2(4), In-1, R-1 F0 W0
Sword+1 _
Staff+1 or Sling -1 2-5
Scale armr, waterprf sack, L’ rope, torch, 39cp

RIP
Stinky Pete, Ostler — Spine snapped by tackling Kith


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 03, 2014 8:26 pm 
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Wild-Eyed Zealot

Joined: Sun Apr 01, 2012 9:52 am
Posts: 64
Location: Austin, TX
donpimpom wrote:
... five minutes ago this guy was a cheesemaker.


Blessed are the cheesemakers.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 04, 2014 9:00 am 
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Steely-Eyed Heathen-Slayer
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Joined: Wed Jul 04, 2012 12:23 pm
Posts: 660
Location: Montreal
Allow me to echo what has been suggested in this thread.

1) the level 0 funnel is just a wonderful time to be had. Let all your players start with 3 or 4 PCs each. My five players had 4 PCs each - they ended up with 1-2 each. PCs will die. Any given monster attack is likely to kill someone. You need to be conscious of this as a judge. Don't throw a dozen orcs at your 15 PCs thinking it will be a fair fight - you'll kill at least half the group, perhaps all of them.

Have no powers at all at level 0, is simply great. You'll see the players looking for solutions in their heads, instead of on their sheets. They'll find a use for that one item they start the game with. My players used the honey pot to drive off a bear, the stones from the stonecutter to throw at a hay golem (don't ask); the farmer's chicken survived against all odds through the entire funnel - had us laughing to tears more than once; the herbs from the shaman ended were hallucinatory according to the player (at level 1, I actually developped a good/bad chart of effects that occured when someone smoked the herbs - including 1/12 chance of having visions that could be relevant to the story). The guy with the chain of course used it to tie up someone at some point. I'm sure I'm forgetting a few, the mundane items really ended up being relevant, interesting, funny.

Try the game as it is suggested, and if you dislike something you can change it later. The funnel in particular is a BLAST. You need to keep those level 0's powerless and mundane for it to keep that feeling though.

2) You'll have plenty of time to introduce magical items, but do it sparsely. By the end of the 5 session-long funnel, the entire group had found a total of 2 magical items. And by the end of the entire 15 session long campaign, they had found a total of 4 or 5 magical items. Don't give them any from the get-go. And when you do give them something, think about what that magic item means. Don't give it because you want the warrior to have +1 to hit. Introduce that magic item because it has something to do with the story. And, that magical sword, probably has its drawbacks too...

Magic is powerful. Magic is unpredictable. Magic is scary.

Magic is rare.

Long for it. Fear it.

3) No magical healing at level 0? Indeed. Wounds mean something. Fear the creature that can hurt you. It will probably kill you. If not, you'll be wounded for two days before your recover.

And in the funnel, 0 hit points = dead. There is no stabilizing or healing these mooks when they are brough to 0 HPs.

This said, my funnel took place in a small village where a priest was present. The priest accepted to heal one of the lawful good characters, provided he paid something (just about any item would do). He refused to heal the neutral character when he asked for it ("you haven't been very present at the holy ceremonies lately, have you?")

4) Step between level 0 and level 1: what we did in my campaign, is allow time to pass (over one year) between the level 0 adventure and the level 1 adventure. You can have that time period be whatever you think is appropriate. It's fun too, because if you want, the players get to develop a short background for their elected PC that survived the funnel and levelled up, for the time period between level 0 and level 1, based on the world they gamed in, and based on a PC that they played through the funnel and got to know a bit about.

I recommend not using experience points for the funnel. Have it be a short adventure, you can make it last however long you wish - our 5-session long funnel was perhaps on the longer end of the scale, but we had fun with it. When the funnel is done, have the PCs level up. If you wish to track experience points, you can do it then. (We didn't but that's just us. Myself, I'd have one adventure be equal to one level of play.)

Have fun! And as mentioned above, resist the urge to modify the rules before you try them out. They do that to people - they seem to scream "try toying with us" (I heard it too!). But don't. They work very well. You'll certainly change your mind about rules you wanted to changed, once you've tried them out.

_________________
Maledict Brothbreath, level 4 warrior, STR 16 (+2) AGI 7 (-1) STA 12 PER 9 INT 10 LUCK 15 (+1), AC: 16 Refl: +1 Fort: +2 Will: +1; lawful; Armor of the Lion and Lily's Blade.

Brother Sufferus, level 4 cleric, STR 13 (+1) AGI 15 (+1) STA 11 PER 13 (+1) INT 10 LUCK 9, AC: 11 (13 if wounded, 15 if down to half hit points), Refl: +3 Fort: +2 Will: +3, chaotic, Robe of the Faith, Scourge of the Maimed One, Darts of Pain.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 04, 2014 2:17 pm 
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Far-Sighted Wanderer

Joined: Thu Jan 23, 2014 2:48 pm
Posts: 35
Thanks a lot for that pile of sensible advices!
Most of my questions don't aim to change rules, (in fact I liked what I read) but I know how my group of players think, they always try to find exploits in the rules. So I need to be sure I have my tools ready (it's more than three years from my last time DMing). I'm sure after the first encounter with one or two lvl zeros bleeding in the floor, streams of panic will flow among them (for instance looking for healing).
I will let you know about the experience and their feedback, thanks again for the replies


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 06, 2014 11:26 am 
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Steely-Eyed Heathen-Slayer
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Joined: Wed Jul 04, 2012 12:23 pm
Posts: 660
Location: Montreal
donpimpom wrote:
, streams of panic will flow among them


Isn't that great? :)

I look forward to hearing about your gaming experience!

_________________
Maledict Brothbreath, level 4 warrior, STR 16 (+2) AGI 7 (-1) STA 12 PER 9 INT 10 LUCK 15 (+1), AC: 16 Refl: +1 Fort: +2 Will: +1; lawful; Armor of the Lion and Lily's Blade.

Brother Sufferus, level 4 cleric, STR 13 (+1) AGI 15 (+1) STA 11 PER 13 (+1) INT 10 LUCK 9, AC: 11 (13 if wounded, 15 if down to half hit points), Refl: +3 Fort: +2 Will: +3, chaotic, Robe of the Faith, Scourge of the Maimed One, Darts of Pain.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 12, 2014 1:10 pm 
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Far-Sighted Wanderer

Joined: Thu Jan 23, 2014 2:48 pm
Posts: 35
well, finally we played and we had a great time.
I will spare you a long post of basic English try to tell you what happened, but there are several points i would like to mention:
-finally no magic items experiments, we played the scenario as it is in the book.
-50% of loses ( 8 survivors from 16)
-the honor of the first KIA went to a Dwarf herder in front of a beggar who was trying to remove one of the jewels of the main door
-room 1-3, after the statue killed a couple of PCs the same beggar runs into the statue with the aim to climb, or at least hide between their legs out of the finger fire range, the statue missed their last three shots!
-room 1-6 they decided the pool was a trap¿¿??, and was filled with acid despite it looked like water ¿¿??¿¿??¿¿??
-room 1-7 they went stuck in the strategy room, they had the fixation there was some kind of voodoo link between the clay toy soldiers and the clay army on room 2-8, they tried even weird experiments with the toys and the remains of the chieftains in room 1-5. Finally someone decided to test if the water on the poll was really acid, and then things started to move on again.

Very fun game , and very fast.
What I really enjoyed is the game really shines at making players think on how to solve things, instead to solve things simply looking for the right skill on their roosters.
Everybody had a great time and they want to play again asap, so maybe in a month or two :-(
Any advice on what to play next?

two questions
Do Monsters fumble? the demon in room 1-4 fumbled, I didn't find a fumbel table for monster, so I took the hp=>dice from the critical hit table and used the d8 to roll on the fumble table. Do your monster fumble? how you solve it?

Do you know some online vendor with a nice stock of DCC stuff in europe? the few I found have a very scarce stock :-(

edit: just after posting this I found the fumble question in another post, sorry :oops:


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 13, 2014 1:15 am 
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donpimpom wrote:
well, finally we played and we had a great time.
I will spare you a long post of basic English try to tell you what happened, but there are several points i would like to mention:
-finally no magic items experiments, we played the scenario as it is in the book.
-50% of loses ( 8 survivors from 16)
-the honor of the first KIA went to a Dwarf herder in front of a beggar who was trying to remove one of the jewels of the main door
-room 1-3, after the statue killed a couple of PCs the same beggar runs into the statue with the aim to climb, or at least hide between their legs out of the finger fire range, the statue missed their last three shots!
-room 1-6 they decided the pool was a trap¿¿??, and was filled with acid despite it looked like water ¿¿??¿¿??¿¿??
-room 1-7 they went stuck in the strategy room, they had the fixation there was some kind of voodoo link between the clay toy soldiers and the clay army on room 2-8, they tried even weird experiments with the toys and the remains of the chieftains in room 1-5. Finally someone decided to test if the water on the poll was really acid, and then things started to move on again.

Very fun game , and very fast.
What I really enjoyed is the game really shines at making players think on how to solve things, instead to solve things simply looking for the right skill on their roosters.
Everybody had a great time and they want to play again asap, so maybe in a month or two :-(
Any advice on what to play next?

two questions
Do Monsters fumble? the demon in room 1-4 fumbled, I didn't find a fumbel table for monster, so I took the hp=>dice from the critical hit table and used the d8 to roll on the fumble table. Do your monster fumble? how you solve it?

Do you know some online vendor with a nice stock of DCC stuff in europe? the few I found have a very scarce stock :-(

edit: just after posting this I found the fumble question in another post, sorry :oops:


i order from games lore when i want something in hard copy (like all harley stroh adventures and core rules).


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 24, 2014 12:31 pm 
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Joined: Thu Apr 09, 2009 5:14 pm
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One fun alterative is let each player run 15-20 characters and treat it like a wargame!
I did that for my Blackmoor Dccrpg spin off and it was a blast! We set two tables together and build cheapy 3D layouts of Castle Blackmoor and it's Dungeon and use all my reaper miniatures + all my 4E tokens and battled it out for two days!

Not role playing in the modern sense but really fun.


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