Treasure Conversion from D&D to DCC...

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Maxwell Luther
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Treasure Conversion from D&D to DCC...

Post by Maxwell Luther »

Ran my first DCC character funnel a couple of weeks ago and after that we're all ready for an extended DCC campaign. I'm setting up a sandbox using half a dozen existing DCC RPG adventures mixed with dynamic lairs (ala ACKS) and classic D&D modules, but that last bit is where I've run into a bit of a problem. I've looked about but the answer to this one simple question seems to be eluding me: seeing as DCC encourages magical rarity, a more barter-style economy and relative player poverty to D&D, what is a good measure for converting loot from a D&D module into DCC?

My first impulse is to go with something simple, like dividing D&D coin amounts by 10, but what about magic items, gems and other non-coinage? I downloaded a great PDF on converting monsters from one to the other, but nothing on treasure.

What have some you DCC DM veterans done to convert treasure from one to the other?
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Re: Treasure Conversion from D&D to DCC...

Post by Maxwell Luther »

Wow. No love on this subject? Does no one convert old D&D modules, or is it that no one bothers to re-balance the treasure?

I don't mind being the first guy to break it down as an academic exercise and contribution to the community (I'm a game designer by trade, after all) but I also don't want to reinvent the wheel if somebody has already done the hard work. I've got other things I could be doing with my aging brain cells.

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Re: Treasure Conversion from D&D to DCC...

Post by Raven_Crowking »

It's just that the topic has come up before.

In general, I turn platinum in to gold, gold into silver, silver into copper. Or I reduce to 10% value, so that 100 gp becomes 10 gp. Unless I like the original mix, in which case it stays.

Gems and other mundane objects can be treated similarly. A 35 gp gem can become a 5 gp gem (rounding up to the nearest 5; make it worth 3.5 gp if you prefer), or can be left as is if you want it to remain a bigger treasure.

Magic items can become mundane items of good craftsmanship that offer a bonus, or are just more valuable than their regular counterparts. I.e., a +1 sword becomes a sword with a jewel encrusted hilt worth 5 x normal, or a sword whose keen edge does +1d on damage. A hoard of spell scrolls might become scrolls which, when studied, allow a wizard or elf the chance to learn a spell. Etc. It is as much an art as a science, so do what feels right to you.
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Re: Treasure Conversion from D&D to DCC...

Post by Karaptis »

I agree with RC. Dividing in half and making magic items into quality mundane items is the best route. Some of those DnD modules, especially the B/X ones, are a loot fest!
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Re: Treasure Conversion from D&D to DCC...

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Sorry I meant dividing by ten.
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Re: Treasure Conversion from D&D to DCC...

Post by DM Cojo »

This is a good question...I was wondering the same thing as I prepared to convert either B4 The Lost City or N1 Against the Cult of the Reptile God. Good advice too, I will adopt this strategy.
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Re: Treasure Conversion from D&D to DCC...

Post by Maxwell Luther »

Raven_Crowking wrote:It's just that the topic has come up before.

In general, I turn platinum in to gold, gold into silver, silver into copper. Or I reduce to 10% value, so that 100 gp becomes 10 gp. Unless I like the original mix, in which case it stays.

Gems and other mundane objects can be treated similarly. A 35 gp gem can become a 5 gp gem (rounding up to the nearest 5; make it worth 3.5 gp if you prefer), or can be left as is if you want it to remain a bigger treasure.

Magic items can become mundane items of good craftsmanship that offer a bonus, or are just more valuable than their regular counterparts. I.e., a +1 sword becomes a sword with a jewel encrusted hilt worth 5 x normal, or a sword whose keen edge does +1d on damage. A hoard of spell scrolls might become scrolls which, when studied, allow a wizard or elf the chance to learn a spell. Etc. It is as much an art as a science, so do what feels right to you.
As I said, I've looked, but found nothing useful. But your reasoning seems to match mine. Take a 10th of given treasure. The scroll thing is a very good idea, though. Parchments with obscure writings that may or may not lead to arcane knowledge are very S&S. The bit on swords is also very good. I didn't think of taking advantage of the die step thing or replacing the magic weapon with one of ornamental value.
Karaptis wrote:I agree with RC. Dividing by 10 and making magic items into quality mundane items is the best route. Some of those DnD modules, especially the B/X ones, are a loot fest!
Indeed they are. The problem I was having, especially with B1 which has to be stocked, is that the DCC book gives no real measure of how much treasure one should stock a dungeon with, not even a relational example to D&D or any similar OSR game. Great book, but that one chapter seems to me to be incomplete.
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Re: Treasure Conversion from D&D to DCC...

Post by Ravenheart87 »

Maxwell Luther wrote:Indeed they are. The problem I was having, especially with B1 which has to be stocked, is that the DCC book gives no real measure of how much treasure one should stock a dungeon with, not even a relational example to D&D or any similar OSR game. Great book, but that one chapter seems to me to be incomplete.
In my opinion DCC balances itself out more or less thanks to the XP system. If you give the players more treasure they will survive encounters easier and gain less XP. If they get less magic items and have a harder time, they gain more XP. If someone pulls out Excalibur at first level, then so be it.

Also let's not forget that PCs with lots of treasure and magic items easily become the targets of wizards and criminals who want to get their wealth. ;)
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Re: Treasure Conversion from D&D to DCC...

Post by Maxwell Luther »

Ravenheart87 wrote:
Maxwell Luther wrote:Indeed they are. The problem I was having, especially with B1 which has to be stocked, is that the DCC book gives no real measure of how much treasure one should stock a dungeon with, not even a relational example to D&D or any similar OSR game. Great book, but that one chapter seems to me to be incomplete.
In my opinion DCC balances itself out more or less thanks to the XP system. If you give the players more treasure they will survive encounters easier and gain less XP. If they get less magic items and have a harder time, they gain more XP. If someone pulls out Excalibur at first level, then so be it.

Also let's not forget that PCs with lots of treasure and magic items easily become the targets of wizards and criminals who want to get their wealth. ;)
More good points. And I suppose that the problem that the book does mention 'what are you going to do with wealth you can't spend or even make change for' goes hand in hand with those.

I'm still going to cut the treasure amounts by 1/10th, but you guys have given me a lot of other tools for my DCC toolbox. Thanks!

8)
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Re: Treasure Conversion from D&D to DCC...

Post by Skyscraper »

Personally I wing it. I don't (or rarely) follow treasure in printed adventures. I give out money in very low quantities, and magic items are there for a reason and consequently they're not just lying there in wait of being found (or, if they're lying there, it's for a reason). Grunts and common monsters have copper pieces, their bosses a few silver. Gold is rare, a platinum piece is a treasure in itself (except at higher levels presumably, but we rarely get there).

The consequence is that the PCs are usually equipped with what they find, and they buy very little stuff. This is something I like because running errands during RPGs is a complete bore for me and it's really just trying to increase you're PC's power level in the end, it's not about story, and I like RPGs to develop stories. PCs equipped with what they find is also something I like because every item has a story. This is the armor I found in the secret halls of the dwarves. This is the magical sword that the mad barbarian chieftain attacked us with before we defeated him - man, wasn't that cool?. I like that kind of stuff, as opposed to "this is my best magic item, I bought it at the market".

The only exception to this, are healing potions, that are usually present pretty liberally in my adventures. They're not frequent, just that anybody with wealth or power has at least a few (who wouldn't?).
Maledict Brothbreath, level 4 warrior, STR 16 (+2) AGI 7 (-1) STA 12 PER 9 INT 10 LUCK 15 (+1), AC: 16 Refl: +1 Fort: +2 Will: +1; lawful; Armor of the Lion and Lily's Blade.

Brother Sufferus, level 4 cleric, STR 13 (+1) AGI 15 (+1) STA 11 PER 13 (+1) INT 10 LUCK 9, AC: 11 (13 if wounded, 15 if down to half hit points), Refl: +3 Fort: +2 Will: +3, chaotic, Robe of the Faith, Scourge of the Maimed One, Darts of Pain.
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Re: Treasure Conversion from D&D to DCC...

Post by Karaptis »

Good call man! I like the idea of PCs knowing where they got their gear and owning it. Like the concept of 0 level funneling.
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Re: Treasure Conversion from D&D to DCC...

Post by finarvyn »

Skyscraper wrote:Personally I wing it. I don't (or rarely) follow treasure in printed adventures. I give out money in very low quantities, and magic items are there for a reason and consequently they're not just lying there in wait of being found (or, if they're lying there, it's for a reason). Grunts and common monsters have copper pieces, their bosses a few silver. Gold is rare, a platinum piece is a treasure in itself (except at higher levels presumably, but we rarely get there).
Well said. I like to operate on the "copper piece is a dollar" frame of mind, and for me a silver is around $10 and a gold is a $100 coin. If we look at the contents of our wallets right now, most of us will find $20-$30 or so in small bills. I'll bet that only a few carry a $100 bill around on a daily basis. (At least, I know that I don't.) That's the way I tend to hand out treasure for routine monster kills.

On the other hand, do we need to balance treasure at all if it doesn't count for XP? Most Appendix N literature finds the character busted at the start of the story and flush toward the end, but busted again by the next story. You could simply award all sorts of loot and inform the players that to remain "in character" they will burn most of the treasure before the next game anyway. Maybe make adn Intellligence roll to see what percent they keep, or come up with a chart where they keep a percentage equal to their intelligence. (That means that an "average" character would be keeping 10% but a smart character 18%; the 10% number follows Raven_Crowking's model! 8) )

Just my two ... you know. :lol:
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Re: Treasure Conversion from D&D to DCC...

Post by Skyscraper »

finarvyn wrote:
Skyscraper wrote:Personally I wing it. I don't (or rarely) follow treasure in printed adventures. I give out money in very low quantities, and magic items are there for a reason and consequently they're not just lying there in wait of being found (or, if they're lying there, it's for a reason). Grunts and common monsters have copper pieces, their bosses a few silver. Gold is rare, a platinum piece is a treasure in itself (except at higher levels presumably, but we rarely get there).
Well said. I like to operate on the "copper piece is a dollar" frame of mind, and for me a silver is around $10 and a gold is a $100 coin. If we look at the contents of our wallets right now, most of us will find $20-$30 or so in small bills. I'll bet that only a few carry a $100 bill around on a daily basis. (At least, I know that I don't.) That's the way I tend to hand out treasure for routine monster kills.

On the other hand, do we need to balance treasure at all if it doesn't count for XP? Most Appendix N literature finds the character busted at the start of the story and flush toward the end, but busted again by the next story. You could simply award all sorts of loot and inform the players that to remain "in character" they will burn most of the treasure before the next game anyway. Maybe make adn Intellligence roll to see what percent they keep, or come up with a chart where they keep a percentage equal to their intelligence. (That means that an "average" character would be keeping 10% but a smart character 18%; the 10% number follows Raven_Crowking's model! 8) )

Just my two ... you know. :lol:
I like the 1$ = one copper quick reference. We discussed this in another thread, and it got my attention then.

I'm not too fond of forcing players to spend their PC's money however. I'm not fond of forcing them to play their PC in any way, as a matter of fact. If they feel like hoarding copper pieces and sleeping in a pile of coins at night, why not. If they're inspired, it might make for a fun story, who knows. I find that the less I impose stuff about their own PC, the better.

Since PCs find very little money anyway, hoarding is never a problem. They haven't bough anything yet in my game, after about 10 sessions of playing, not even a single inexpensive armor or weapon. They have a handful of silvers, and a couple hundred coppers, collectively.

(Since I'm stringy, I won't even evaluate my opinion at two coppers.)
Maledict Brothbreath, level 4 warrior, STR 16 (+2) AGI 7 (-1) STA 12 PER 9 INT 10 LUCK 15 (+1), AC: 16 Refl: +1 Fort: +2 Will: +1; lawful; Armor of the Lion and Lily's Blade.

Brother Sufferus, level 4 cleric, STR 13 (+1) AGI 15 (+1) STA 11 PER 13 (+1) INT 10 LUCK 9, AC: 11 (13 if wounded, 15 if down to half hit points), Refl: +3 Fort: +2 Will: +3, chaotic, Robe of the Faith, Scourge of the Maimed One, Darts of Pain.
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Re: Treasure Conversion from D&D to DCC...

Post by Skyscraper »

Skyscraper wrote: I'm not too fond of forcing players to spend their PC's money however. I'm not fond of forcing them to play their PC in any way, as a matter of fact. If they feel like hoarding copper pieces and sleeping in a pile of coins at night, why not. If they're inspired, it might make for a fun story, who knows. I find that the less I impose stuff about their own PC, the better.
As a side note, I played an elf in Warhammer RPG a few years ago, and the DM wanted to force me to play him in a certain way because he was an elf. It wasn't aligned with the way I played him and our feud about my PC eventually led to the entire campaign collapsing. It was more about players not being aligned with the DM's playstyle generally, but the point is that forcing something from players "because that's the way your PC should act in my campaign" is usually not a winning proposition IMO. As DM I like to describe the campaign setting, hopefully the players get inspired by it, but then it's up to them to decide whether they'll act along the style of the campaign setting, or not. The players I play with are usually very mindful of the collective play experience, so even if they deter form the campaign style in their PC style, it often makes for some fun characters that stand out compared to other NPCs in the game world.
Maledict Brothbreath, level 4 warrior, STR 16 (+2) AGI 7 (-1) STA 12 PER 9 INT 10 LUCK 15 (+1), AC: 16 Refl: +1 Fort: +2 Will: +1; lawful; Armor of the Lion and Lily's Blade.

Brother Sufferus, level 4 cleric, STR 13 (+1) AGI 15 (+1) STA 11 PER 13 (+1) INT 10 LUCK 9, AC: 11 (13 if wounded, 15 if down to half hit points), Refl: +3 Fort: +2 Will: +3, chaotic, Robe of the Faith, Scourge of the Maimed One, Darts of Pain.
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Re: Treasure Conversion from D&D to DCC...

Post by Maxwell Luther »

Barbarians of Lemuria is very much of the 'spend all your gold between adventures' school of treasure handling. In fact, you get an extra XP for doing so and another one if your description of the way you do it leaves the GM with a hook for a new adventure.

Ex: 'I spend all my money on wine and women, commissioning great artworks of myself and finally, my last gold piece is spent on an old map bought from an ancient geezer who assures me it leads to a fantastic treasure on a deserted island.'

But, I like the idea posited by DCC that gold is rare, the ability to spend it is restricted to very populous places and there are no banks to keep it in, so big hauls are problematic at best until the characters can buy a fortress to protect it.
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