Contemplating Thief Skills

[Rostranor]

Thinking about thief skills.

A character has two phases in one round. One of which is an Action and the other is a Move. Since the thieves’ skills have a roll adjustment to them it makes senses that they are classified as actions. If that is true then are, or should any, of those skills be considered move equivalent actions?

To me it makes sense that a character can hide in shadows and move silently while he is moving. Would that be three phases? If move silently is a move equivalent action it would be more of a type of move action so then yeah it is only two phases.

If this is true are any other thief skills move equivalents? Could a thief attack an opponent and then make a hide action in the same round, then on the next round backstab again and then disappear in plain sight before the adversary?

[GnomeBoy]

..."disappear in plain sight" of an adversary?

DC 40? ...maybe 50...

The rules do point out that a thief can hide in daylight -- for me, that's finding a place to hide, behind some kind of cover, under broad daylight -- and then people coming by don't notice you.

It'd basically never be effectively done under direct observation. Unless something is monkeying around with the sight of the adversary, they just watch you duck down behind something. Anyone new entering the area may not see you, but the dude you just smacked in the head, and then turned away from to duck behind a crate, still knows you're there. Good luck getting a backstab bonus against him again.

Of course, maybe in some campaigns, Thief's draw upon mystical inner-energy. Maybe that's a case where they can just vanish right in front of someone.


Sneak Silently can certainly be done while moving, IMHO. Most of them take an action die to use, or substitute their own die for your action die (Cast from Scroll, I'm looking at you). There may be conditional situations where the roll could be rolled into another action.

But hitting someone and then hiding to re-gain the backstab? Not generally, no. Doing it within one round? No, no, a thousand times no!

[Rostranor]

I am not saying I am for it either. I was just kind of kicking the mechanical tires so to speak.

Also in terms of hiding in the open I also see it as lost in the commotion as well as.

[GnomeBoy]

Commotion and chaos would lower the DC, yes.

The classic example is my friend who chose all the right moments to use his thievery-type skills, and the GM for that game not even asking for rolls, so perfectly were the moments chosen. The player of the other thief in the party then tried to steal the rings off of the fingers of a guy the group was in the middle of a conversation with... Needless to say the GM didn't allow it, and the player was perplexed.

Ya gots ta choose your moments. They may not come often.

[cthulhudarren]

I am curious if judges allow thieves to backstab more than once per fight. To me they need total surprise.

[NJPDX]

I am curious if judges allow thieves to backstab more than once per fight. To me they need total surprise.

That's how I would run it, unless there is some kind of (major) distraction that resets direct observation.

To me a rogue/thief should cleave closer to the "utility knife, coward" archetype, than the "whirling dervish of death" archetype that came later in MMOs and video games.

[Skars]

I think you are treading on rules-centric ground there that defeats some of the abstract simplicity of DCC. But, speaking in the d20 jargon referenced, I think all thief abilities are essentially "full round actions" whether they include movement or not.