QUESTION: Warrior Crits (threat range) on second attack...

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micahmoore
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QUESTION: Warrior Crits (threat range) on second attack...

Post by micahmoore »

Hey All,

So while level 5, Warriors get 2 attacks per round
1st attack is with a d20 (crits on 18,19,20).
The second attack is with a D14 (BUT WHAT IS THE CRIT RANGE)??

I'm assuming a nat 14 still crits ?
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Re: QUESTION: Warrior Crits (threat range) on second attack.

Post by NJPDX »

My ruling would be no automatic hits on a natural 14 and no criticals unless their second action die made it possible to roll inside their threat range. That means they wouldn't be eligible to crit with their second attack until level 7 and the only automatic hit should be on a natural twenty.

But then again I'm a grump who hates other people having fun
:wink:

Here's some clarity from page 81
"Note that while higher-level warriors threaten critical hits on rolls other than 20, only a natural 20 is an automatic hit."
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Re: QUESTION: Warrior Crits (threat range) on second attack.

Post by GnomeBoy »

The second paragraph of page 79 has some clarification.

And by comparison, the Halfling is specifically called out as scoring a automatic hit and a critical on a natural 16 (on his d16s, when fighting with two weapons).
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Re: QUESTION: Warrior Crits (threat range) on second attack.

Post by Monster »

I would say that the highest number on the action die would be an automatic hit.
I would have to see how the increased threat range worked before I made a call on crits.


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Re: QUESTION: Warrior Crits (threat range) on second attack.

Post by NJPDX »

Monster wrote:I would say that the highest number on the action die would be an automatic hit.
I would have to see how the increased threat range worked before I made a call on crits.


Monster
Using a fifth level warrior as an example I see a couple of issues.

First, in the bold-type example above, a secondary attack would have a higher chance of automatic hit (7+%) than a primary attack (5%); that's counter intuitive to me.

Furthermore, a secondary attack of "d14+d7+modifiers" is going to hit a good bit of the time regardless and when paired with a primary attack that has a critical threat range of 18-20 (on the most potent critical hit table) that's going to add up to a high damage output regardless.

In any case it doesn't much matter what I think; people should run the game the way think is best and in a way everyone at the table agrees is the most fun.
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Re: QUESTION: Warrior Crits (threat range) on second attack.

Post by Monster »

I don't think that I crunched the numbers on % of hits.

If the cap on the die doesn't have a chance of a hit, why give them the attack?

As far as crits, like I said last time, I would have to see how it played out. Not one
of our characters has lived to level 5 over almost a year and a half. If they get to 5th
level they should, and deservedly so, be dangerous and do some damage near what a
5th level wizard, theif, or cleric could put out.

The crits, you might have a point on.
To that creature, you are the monsters hunting it!
Noun mon·ster/mɒnstər/Show Spell[mon-ster]
1. a legendary animal combining features of animal and human form or having the forms of various animals in combination, as a centaur, griffin, or sphinx.
2. any creature so ugly or monstrous as to frighten people.
3. any animal or human grotesquely deviating from the normal shape, behavior, or character.
4. a person who excites horror by wickedness, cruelty, etc.
5. any animal or thing huge in size.
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GnomeBoy
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Re: QUESTION: Warrior Crits (threat range) on second attack.

Post by GnomeBoy »

NJPDX wrote:First, in the bold-type example above, a secondary attack would have a higher chance of automatic hit (7+%) than a primary attack (5%); that's counter intuitive to me.
Just a bit of food for thought (maybe just a snack for thought):

• The primary d20 attack is going to flat-out hit more often than the secondary attack. So which will actually lead to more damage in the long run?

• Crits are fun.

• If a weak attacker could only hit with a natural 20 on a d20, that's sort of like saying they can only harm their foe by getting lucky enough to hit a vital spot, which is a critical. Something similar could be happening for a natural 16 on a d16, or the like.

• Crunching the numbers and actual game play can (and do) yield different results.


Mix and match these points as you see fit. :mrgreen:
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bighara
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Re: QUESTION: Warrior Crits (threat range) on second attack.

Post by bighara »

GnomeBoy wrote:The second paragraph of page 79 has some clarification.
So, if I'm reading this right, a warrior with a 19-20 threat range rolling a 2nd attack with a d16 could crit if his modified roll is 19+ and it hits?
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Re: QUESTION: Warrior Crits (threat range) on second attack.

Post by GnomeBoy »

bighara wrote:
GnomeBoy wrote:The second paragraph of page 79 has some clarification.
So, if I'm reading this right, a warrior with a 19-20 threat range rolling a 2nd attack with a d16 could crit if his modified roll is 19+ and it hits?
Generally speaking, the crit is on a natural result, not a 'total' result, e.g. a Warrior's Deed Die does not affect whether a crit happened or not (d20=16, Deed Die=4 =/= crit). The natural result of the die is what determines the crit, apart from other factors (like Luck burn).

Now, imagine that at 7th Level the Warrior had these Action dice: 1d20 + 1d18. At that Level, his threat range includes the 18. A natural 18 on the d18 would certainly be a crit.

I tend to see these 'discrepancies' as spaces where magic can come in... A magic sword that adds to your threat range, an axe that lets you crit based on the total from your Action die and Deed die, etc., etc.
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bighara
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Re: QUESTION: Warrior Crits (threat range) on second attack.

Post by bighara »

OK. I think I get it (apart from the existence of a d18 ;) ).
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Re: QUESTION: Warrior Crits (threat range) on second attack.

Post by Rick »

bighara wrote:OK. I think I get it (apart from the existence of a d18 ;) ).
http://www.goodman-games.com/forums/vie ... 985#p99985
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Re: QUESTION: Warrior Crits (threat range) on second attack.

Post by GnomeBoy »

bighara wrote:OK. I think I get it (apart from the existence of a d18 ;) ).
Well, yes, they do exist -- but aren't formally part of the Dice Chain.

In the example, it was meant as purely hypothetical (which means in some alternate universe, they are part of the Dice Chain).
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