How do you determine surprise?

[cthulhudarren]

The rules just say "determine surprise" and then roll for initiative. How do you determine if one party or the other is surprised for, say... random encounters?

[Raven_Crowking]

(1) Circumstances. If the spider is over the door, and you don't look up.....

(2) Player Attention: If the players are distracted, so are the characters. On the other hand, particularly alert players are also reflected in the alertness of their characters.

(3) Luck Check: PCs roll a Luck check once each hour of actual game play. Fail it, and maybe the bad luck you have coming is being surprised.

(4) Roll: If none of the above settle the matter, make a roll. Either a base chance (2 in 6) or a Luck check; whatever feels right at the moment.

[cjoepar]

Almost always based on the circumstances. Party in clanking armor carrying torches through a cave and they come across a few goblins. Yeah, I think the goblins knew they were coming and were able to surprise the party, even if there was a door in between.

Sometimes if there are circumstances that would prevent either party from realizing the other was close I just roll a 6 sided die for the monster and one for the party. If one beats the other by 3 or more I rule surprise, if not then neither or both are surprised.

[Ravenheart87]

I suddenly throw a d30 at a random player. Then I watch his reaction.

Just kidding. I base it on circumstances.

[cthulhudarren]

All else being equal, in ODnD wasn't it a D6 roll?

[Ravenheart87]

All else being equal, in ODnD wasn't it a D6 roll?

Indeed. If you roll 1-2, your party is surprised. Unless you have a ranger, a monk in your party or some other circumstance changes the chances.

[beermotor]

(2) Player Attention: If the players are distracted, so are the characters. On the other hand, particularly alert players are also reflected in the alertness of their characters.

The only problem with this (IMO) is it tends to cultivate the "My character is looking around all over constantly" players. Which is dumb, on top of being impossible. And I hate to encourage that sort of behavior just to then have to argue with the player about whether the character was looking out for the monster behind the door or not, ultimately whipping out the "I'm the DM, that's the way it is" stick which nobody likes.

But, I suppose the beatings will continue until morale improves... !

[Raven_Crowking]

(2) Player Attention: If the players are distracted, so are the characters. On the other hand, particularly alert players are also reflected in the alertness of their characters.

The only problem with this (IMO) is it tends to cultivate the "My character is looking around all over constantly" players. Which is dumb, on top of being impossible. And I hate to encourage that sort of behavior just to then have to argue with the player about whether the character was looking out for the monster behind the door or not, ultimately whipping out the "I'm the DM, that's the way it is" stick which nobody likes.

But, I suppose the beatings will continue until morale improves... !

I'll give you an example of what I mean.

In Doom of the Savage Kings, after the Serpent Mound, the players were extremely happy with how they did, and left the Mound boisterously, and far more distracted by self-congratulation than normal. Hence, the Jarl's men automatically surprised them outside. The players, playing their characters, were not paying attention. It was clear that they thought the time of danger was over.

If they had considered an ambush, and taken precautions, they could have automatically avoided surprise.

Otherwise, perhaps, a roll.

[Skars]

RC, I totally try to use player attitudes as indicators for assuming how their characters are behaving to drive the story. I really think that throughout the course of playing, it should be clear if someone has the drop on their opponent. In the rare cases that it is not evident, roll a d6 as noted above and go with it.

[oncelor]

If the party or the monsters are being ambushed, I use INT checks to see whether creatures/players can act during the ambush round.

If it's a totally random encounter, and all other things being equal, I roll 1d6. On a 1 the monsters have a chance to ambush the party (as above); on a 6 the party has a chance to ambush the monsters. Situations might modify this, say if the party has some sneaky guy scouting ahead, or if the monsters are particularly sneaky.