Familiars... Do the ever grow more powerful?

[cthulhudarren]

The familiar rules are really cool, but they don't say anything about if they "level" with you. It would seem logical if they scaled, at least a little bit, as you level. At least +1 or 2 HPs for every level the master gains?

What do you all think?

[Skyscraper]

The familiar rules are really cool, but they don't say anything about if they "level" with you. It would seem logical if they scaled, at least a little bit, as you level. At least +1 or 2 HPs for every level the master gains?

What do you all think?

I think it's a good question. And I look forward to hearing what you decide upon in the end!

[TheNobleDrake]

I am actually more a fan of them not scaling at all, so that at low level the familiar is a significant portion of the character's powers (since it is taking up about 1/4th of the character's spells known) but at higher levels the familiar because a much more minor benefit and the wizard himself is more the focus (since the familiar is then only 1 of more than a dozen spells at the wizard's disposal)

[Flexi]

Interesting. I can remember familiars being a useful but vulnerable low level servant in my AD&D games.
In Hackmaster 4th I recall that you could acquire whelks and petunia plants as familiars, which was a lot more useful than it sounds!
It feels appropriate to me that that the familiar's powers rise with the wizards. Maybe I am thinking of one story in Torture Garden, where Balthazar, a witch's familiar, has uncanny powers to control and dominate people, along with an grisly appetite for feasting on human's heads.

[cjoepar]

I am in favor of them increasing in power if the wizard desires to transfer some of his power to the familiar (xp's). But it comes with a cost: as the familiar increases in power, so does the need to keep them happy. Sort of like minor patrons.

[cthulhudarren]

Interesting. I can remember familiars being a useful but vulnerable low level servant in my AD&D games.
In Hackmaster 4th I recall that you could acquire whelks and petunia plants as familiars, which was a lot more useful than it sounds!
It feels appropriate to me that that the familiar's powers rise with the wizards. Maybe I am thinking of one story in Torture Garden, where Balthazar, a witch's familiar, has uncanny powers to control and dominate people, along with an grisly appetite for feasting on human's heads.

This is a great idea, begging some kind of "Crawl!" writeup...

[cthulhudarren]

BTW,
I re-read the familiar rules last night and familiars do scale to a degree. Saves are the same as the wizard's, and if you have a guardian its attack scales with the wizard's attack bonus.

Curiously, there is no scaling shone for the other types of familiars, being arcane focus, demons, etc.

I like the idea of spending some XP, but some kind of scaling would be prudent. At least give them a HP or two as the wizard gains each level. I'll have to think about this some more.

[Golgothmog]

I'd like it if they could scale, but doing so would require some investment/risk on the part of the Magic User... giving up some XP to the familiar or something... and some degree of risk of the Familiar gaining power on it's own somehow... eventually becoming something more.
I like to think of them having their own paths to glory/infamy.

[finarvyn]

The danger with a powerful familiar is that it might start to become almost like a new PC, which sometimes has unexpected effects on party balance. One might find that the wizard spends all of his time having the familiar do things instead of the party members -- scouting or stealing things or whatever.

[beermotor]

Since when has DCC cared about balance?

Also, oh PLEASE PRETTY PLEASE use your familiar as a scout. *rubs DM hands evilly* *cackles maniacally*

[Golgothmog]

The danger with a powerful familiar is that it might start to become almost like a new PC, which sometimes has unexpected effects on party balance. One might find that the wizard spends all of his time having the familiar do things instead of the party members -- scouting or stealing things or whatever.

I'd expect them to be like NPC hirelings... with the GM having the reigns of their personal motives and desires. Just because they're your familiar doesn't mean they like you and won't seek out their own interests whenever possible.

[Skyscraper]

One idea might be to have them have a percentage of the caster's HPs. That way they scale, but never become a formidable creature compared to other party members.

[cthulhudarren]

One idea might be to have them have a percentage of the caster's HPs. That way they scale, but never become a formidable creature compared to other party members.

What percentage? 1/3, 1/4 ?

[Colin]

What about +1 HP per level? Simple, quick, never formidable.

Colin

[Skyscraper]

One idea might be to have them have a percentage of the caster's HPs. That way they scale, but never become a formidable creature compared to other party members.

What percentage? 1/3, 1/4 ?

Something like that. That would be few at level 1, but then again that's pretty normal.

The 1 extra HP per level is interesting also.

Will any of these solutions change anything really? By the time the wizard reaches level 5, will those 5 HPs (etheir fixed value or representing the 25% of the wizard's HPs) allow the familiar to survive a blow that would have otherwise killed him? It seems doubtful, except for glancing blows.

[Colin]

I wouldn't want it to have too much survivability. There should always be a strong element of the wizard feeling protective about the familiar and fearful of its demise, so giving it hit points that would allow it to shrug off too much wouldn't be desirable anyway. That said, a level 5 familiar (with +1 hp/level after 1st) would have 9 HP on average (14 HP if a Guardian type). When you consider that a Gnoll has an average of 5 HP, a Knight has an average of 9 HP, and that a longsword only causes 1d8 damage, it's not too shabby at all.

Colin