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 Post subject: Birth Auger at +0
PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2012 12:13 am 
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Wild-Eyed Zealot

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I'm starting to be of the mind that when a player generates a new character that I won't even bother having them write down their Birth Auger if their initial Luck modifier is +0. It doesn't convey any information, but having the player write it down seems to imply that it's something that could change as their Luck changes, which it has been pointed out in these forums is actually not the case.

Is there any reason to have a new player write "Mounted Combat +0" on their sheet?


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 Post subject: Re: Birth Auger at +0
PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2012 4:54 am 
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phg wrote:
I'm starting to be of the mind that when a player generates a new character that I won't even bother having them write down their Birth Auger if their initial Luck modifier is +0. It doesn't convey any information, but having the player write it down seems to imply that it's something that could change as their Luck changes, which it has been pointed out in these forums is actually not the case.

Is there any reason to have a new player write "Mounted Combat +0" on their sheet?


I had a player roll up three zeros the other day and they all had luck +0. He didn't even bother to roll the birth auger because it would never change. I guess as the DM you could try to make ride checks easier for this guy. Maybe everything horse related would be a little easier for him. Anyway I think I'll go back and make him roll the augers just in case I come up with something like this.

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 Post subject: Re: Birth Auger at +0
PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2012 5:05 am 
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I had an idea about modifying the "permanent" luck bonus to the current at every level up. Don't know if I'm going to use it or not.

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 Post subject: Re: Birth Auger at +0
PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2012 6:04 am 
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Mighty-Thewed Reaver

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Or just give Birth Augurs a minimum of +1. With 3d6 in order it's not a big deal.


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 Post subject: Re: Birth Auger at +0
PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2012 6:38 am 
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I have them write it down. It comes up in roleplaying, for better or worse. One more nugget to give a hint where this character came from.


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 Post subject: Re: Birth Auger at +0
PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2012 12:17 pm 
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I agree, I like it for flavour. It is great to know that a character is a seventh son, for example, whether this confers a bonus or not.


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 Post subject: Re: Birth Auger at +0
PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2012 12:59 pm 
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I have my players write them down. When I ran Sailors, one of my players was Born on the Battlefield. He wanted to roll a knowledge check regarding the history of the keep. I allowed him to do so, as he likely heard stories of wars due to his birthright. Even if the modifier is not useful, incorporating that element into their backstory is pretty cool, I think.

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 Post subject: Re: Birth Auger at +0
PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2012 1:51 pm 
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Cold-Blooded Diabolist

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Birth augurs are also an opportunity to key in special use or special properties when it comes to magical items - perhaps the amulet only fully protects a plague survivor from disease but all others gain added resistance from wearing it (boring example, sorry).

And lets not forget birth augur being something that could play into which character is the target of kidnapping by cultists that need someone of specific birth for their sacrifice.


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 Post subject: Re: Birth Auger at +0
PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2012 8:46 pm 
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I've been thinking of giving characters with a 9 or 10 initial luck a -1 birth auger and characters with 11 or 12 initial luck a +1 birth auger. Makes the characters a little more interesting and individual.


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 Post subject: Re: Birth Auger at +0
PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2012 9:05 pm 
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ThreeDieSix wrote:
I've been thinking of giving characters with a 9 or 10 initial luck a -1 birth auger and characters with 11 or 12 initial luck a +1 birth auger. Makes the characters a little more interesting and individual.

I like this.


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 Post subject: Re: Birth Auger at +0
PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2012 11:55 pm 
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ThreeDieSix wrote:
I've been thinking of giving characters with a 9 or 10 initial luck a -1 birth auger and characters with 11 or 12 initial luck a +1 birth auger. Makes the characters a little more interesting and individual.

I actually like that better than the min +1 solution (which is what I had been thinking). This hack makes it so there's no neutral birth augers, which I find flavorful.


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 Post subject: Re: Birth Auger at +0
PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2012 8:11 am 
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If nothing else, it adds flavor to the character.

ThreeDieSix wrote:
I've been thinking of giving characters with a 9 or 10 initial luck a -1 birth auger and characters with 11 or 12 initial luck a +1 birth auger. Makes the characters a little more interesting and individual.
This is a nice solution. Avoids the whole +0 issue altogether. 8)

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 Post subject: Re: Birth Auger at +0
PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2012 12:40 am 
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ThreeDieSix wrote:
I've been thinking of giving characters with a 9 or 10 initial luck a -1 birth auger and characters with 11 or 12 initial luck a +1 birth auger. Makes the characters a little more interesting and individual.


Great idea!

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 Post subject: Re: Birth Auger at +0
PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2012 7:26 am 
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What about this, it is a touch of bookkeeping, but not bad if you have a room with a dry erase board.
You could keep a 'Luckiness record', everytime someone rolls a Nat 20 or a 1 they would check it off on the board. For every so many their luck would go up or down. So if the player is lucky or unlucky it affects his character.
So the PC that crits 3 times in a game might feel he can burn off a point of luck to help the team, instead of miserly saving them for emergencies.
It would take some playtesting to figure out how many crits/fumbles would affext the luck score.
Also this could just be temp luck for the session.

What do ya think?


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 Post subject: Re: Birth Auger at +0
PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2012 7:29 am 
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ShaggyCan wrote:
You could keep a 'Luckiness record', everytime someone rolls a Nat 20 or a 1 they would check it off on the board. For every so many their luck would go up or down. So if the player is lucky or unlucky it affects his character.
An interesting concept, having the player's die rolls tie into the character's luck. I'd have to ponder how this would work, but it's a cool idea. :D

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ADRP Since 1993, OD&D player since 1975

"The worthy GM never purposely kills players' PCs, He presents opportunities for the rash and unthinking players to do that all on their own."
-- Gary Gygax
"Don't ask me what you need to hit. Just roll the die and I will let you know!"
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 Post subject: Re: Birth Auger at +0
PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2012 8:13 am 
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Vanguard wrote:
I have my players write them down. When I ran Sailors, one of my players was Born on the Battlefield. He wanted to roll a knowledge check regarding the history of the keep. I allowed him to do so, as he likely heard stories of wars due to his birthright. Even if the modifier is not useful, incorporating that element into their backstory is pretty cool, I think.


+d24

The Judge is also completely in his rights to assign a +1 bonus to the birth auger later. This is especially appropriate if events in the campaign make use of the auger in some way. For example, if an adventure takes place within (or including) a storm of mythic proportions, a character with The Raging Storm as a birth auger (and who survives!) might discover that his bonus has been increased by 1.

Random rolls in this game drive the action, and our understanding of the action in the game. Does it matter what the manifestation of a spell is from a rules perspective? Probably not. Does it matter to experiencing the game? I think it does. And you never know...sometimes the manifestation might actually be important. So to with the +0 birth auger.

Imagine that a character has a +0 birth auger "Survived a spider bite". Couldn't that auger his later opportunity to win the patronage of Mellythese, demon-goddess of spiders?

What about our baker who was raised by wolves? Might he not be able to make a Luck check that he knows the wolves now attacking his village? If so, they might not attack him personally, so long as he doesn't attack them. Would he be able to challenge the Alpha Male of this (or another) pack for dominance....as Tarzan does with many groups of apes in various ERB novels?

Let the player propose how his birth auger applies. As a Judge, consider how birth augers might apply to (or be affected by) the adventures you run. And the player who didn't bother to roll, because he had a modifier of +0? That character is literally out of luck. Nothing special happened at his birth/in his youth.

(But he might want to roll next time!)

RC

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Cathbad the Meek (herbalist Wizard 1): AC 9; 4 hp; S 7, A 7, St 10, P 17, I 13, L 8; Neutral; Club, herbs, 50' rope, 50 cp; -1 to melee attack rolls. Hideous scar.


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 Post subject: Re: Birth Auger at +0
PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2012 1:11 pm 
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Raven_Crowking wrote:
Imagine that a character has a +0 birth auger "Survived a spider bite". Couldn't that auger his later opportunity to win the patronage of Mellythese, demon-goddess of spiders?

What about our baker who was raised by wolves? Might he not be able to make a Luck check that he knows the wolves now attacking his village? If so, they might not attack him personally, so long as he doesn't attack them. Would he be able to challenge the Alpha Male of this (or another) pack for dominance....as Tarzan does with many groups of apes in various ERB novels?


I like this idea. I'll also throw in that the more I play/run DCC the more I'm all about making the Birth Augur (and corresponding Luck modifier application for Classes) into a flat +1 bonus that doesn't change and isn't related to the Luck ability score.

I have enough uses for Luck (drawing of course from my work on TA/TG) that it doesn't matter if the Birth Augur of 0-Levels or "Lucky Roll" of the Character Classes is tied to Luck.

So flat +1 for me. Less bookkeeping. Less confusion. Fewer grumpy players that rolled an 8 on their Luck score.


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 Post subject: Re: Birth Auger at +0
PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2012 6:41 pm 
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Gave out a +1 to luck to a player that rolled back to back crits. The ability scores vs bonus are far enough appart that a +1 to an ability score doesn't often raise a bonus.


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 Post subject: Re: Birth Auger at +0
PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2012 8:00 pm 
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ShaggyCan wrote:
What about this, it is a touch of bookkeeping, but not bad if you have a room with a dry erase board.
You could keep a 'Luckiness record', everytime someone rolls a Nat 20 or a 1 they would check it off on the board. For every so many their luck would go up or down. So if the player is lucky or unlucky it affects his character.
So the PC that crits 3 times in a game might feel he can burn off a point of luck to help the team, instead of miserly saving them for emergencies.
It would take some playtesting to figure out how many crits/fumbles would affext the luck score.
Also this could just be temp luck for the session.

What do ya think?


Not sure how I missed this post before but I am really intrigued by this idea.


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 Post subject: Re: Birth Auger at +0
PostPosted: Thu Jul 05, 2012 5:40 pm 
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I have been kicking around the idea that if your luck score changes [b]Permanently[b], not by burning luck/regaining luck, then the birth augur can be gained or lost. There where always ways for ability scores to change during the adventurers career.


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 Post subject: Re: Birth Auger at +0
PostPosted: Sun Aug 12, 2012 12:23 pm 
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ThreeDieSix wrote:
I've been thinking of giving characters with a 9 or 10 initial luck a -1 birth auger and characters with 11 or 12 initial luck a +1 birth auger. Makes the characters a little more interesting and individual.



I did this for my group, and they all liked knowing that their PC either had "good" or "bad" luck. They were also fond of the fact that by Questing they could possibly go from Bad to Good Luck as well.

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 Post subject: Re: Birth Auger at +0
PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2012 11:31 am 
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themightyeroc wrote:
ThreeDieSix wrote:
I've been thinking of giving characters with a 9 or 10 initial luck a -1 birth auger and characters with 11 or 12 initial luck a +1 birth auger. Makes the characters a little more interesting and individual.



I did this for my group, and they all liked knowing that their PC either had "good" or "bad" luck. They were also fond of the fact that by Questing they could possibly go from Bad to Good Luck as well.



Yeah, for the life of me, I can't understand why the Birth Augur / Lucky Roll was held to be static, and could never increase. Granted, a few of them are pretty powerful (+hp, +ac), but... so what. It's random, and it takes player skill and no small amount of real luck to use it / shepherd it / keep the character alive.

And if you're stuck with a bad negative modifier, if it can NEVER increase, even through questing, that would probably lead to a pretty well unplayable character. Maybe that's not a terrible result, but what if dude is average to solid otherwise, but has a 3 luck and gets Bountiful harvest. Yay, 1hp/level forever? That's not going to last long, no matter what the AC.

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RoM pbp:
Hamun Ry (Wiz 4)
Str 10 Agi 15 (+1) Sta 11 Per 11 Int 17 (+2) Luc 10 (Unholy House). Align: C. AC: 14. HP: 13. Melee +1, Ranged +2. Crit: d8, I. Save: Ref +5, Fort +3, Will +4.
Spells: 1: Choking Cloud, Comprehend Languages, Detect Magic (odd crystal growths), Magic Missile (mirror images), Runic Alphabet (Mortal) (ravenously hungry), Ventriloquism (rain of frogs)
2: Detect Invisible, Levitate (extremely difficult, d14), Mirror Image (20% chance to raise/lower luck by 1d3 points).
Equip: Ring of the Sand Djinn: +2 AC/saves, Invisibility for 1min/spellburn point, or unmake for great, unknown effect. Padded Armor, Longsword, Longbow, quiver w/20 steel-tipped arrows, 10 silver-tipped arrows, backpack, spellbook, quill and ink, sturdy parchment (10 sheets), 5 days rations, high leather boots, belt w/ belt pouch, gray robe, dark gray hooded cloak. Also carries 3 small mechanical toys: wind-up mouse, wooden puzzle cube, small jewelry box that plays a little tune.


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 Post subject: Re: Birth Auger at +0
PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2012 11:47 am 
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beermotor wrote:
Maybe that's not a terrible result, but what if dude is average to solid otherwise, but has a 3 luck and gets Bountiful harvest. Yay, 1hp/level forever? That's not going to last long, no matter what the AC.


Otoh, that character is *extremely* rare. First you have to roll a "3" for a stat (about 3% chance), and then for the Luck stat in particular (1/6 chance, cumulatively about .5% chance ), and then the auger for HP (1/30 chance, cumulatively about .015%). So out of 10,000 randomly generated characters, you'd end up with the poor fellow in question (1hp/level), but you'd also come across his uber-lucky cousin with +3hp/level...


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 Post subject: Re: Birth Auger at +0
PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2012 12:09 pm 
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beermotor wrote:
Yeah, for the life of me, I can't understand why the Birth Augur / Lucky Roll was held to be static, and could never increase.


I think, although Ardneh knows I could be wrong, that the Birth Augur was simply intended as a constant factor throughout the character's life. Sometimes that would be a "Man, I'm having the worst luck right now, but at least I know how to fight!" moment, and, at other times it would be "Skill checks! Why did it have to be skill checks?"

Of course, characters can Quest to change their luck with regards to their Birth Auger, and the judges' advice in the Core Rulebook about changing Luck also seems to apply.

I am currently working on an adventure for Purple Duck Games where your Birth Auger matters, even if it has no associated bonus, and it matters deeply.

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Cathbad the Meek (herbalist Wizard 1): AC 9; 4 hp; S 7, A 7, St 10, P 17, I 13, L 8; Neutral; Club, herbs, 50' rope, 50 cp; -1 to melee attack rolls. Hideous scar.


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 Post subject: Re: Birth Auger at +0
PostPosted: Wed Aug 15, 2012 6:50 am 
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phg wrote:
beermotor wrote:
Maybe that's not a terrible result, but what if dude is average to solid otherwise, but has a 3 luck and gets Bountiful harvest. Yay, 1hp/level forever? That's not going to last long, no matter what the AC.


Otoh, that character is *extremely* rare. First you have to roll a "3" for a stat (about 3% chance), and then for the Luck stat in particular (1/6 chance, cumulatively about .5% chance ), and then the auger for HP (1/30 chance, cumulatively about .015%). So out of 10,000 randomly generated characters, you'd end up with the poor fellow in question (1hp/level), but you'd also come across his uber-lucky cousin with +3hp/level...


Yeah, but even a more likely result of -1 or -2 is still potentially crippling, combined with the randomness of the HD rolls.

I liked what people were saying above about making the Birth Augur just a flat +1. I think I'm going to do that.

_________________

RoM pbp:
Hamun Ry (Wiz 4)
Str 10 Agi 15 (+1) Sta 11 Per 11 Int 17 (+2) Luc 10 (Unholy House). Align: C. AC: 14. HP: 13. Melee +1, Ranged +2. Crit: d8, I. Save: Ref +5, Fort +3, Will +4.
Spells: 1: Choking Cloud, Comprehend Languages, Detect Magic (odd crystal growths), Magic Missile (mirror images), Runic Alphabet (Mortal) (ravenously hungry), Ventriloquism (rain of frogs)
2: Detect Invisible, Levitate (extremely difficult, d14), Mirror Image (20% chance to raise/lower luck by 1d3 points).
Equip: Ring of the Sand Djinn: +2 AC/saves, Invisibility for 1min/spellburn point, or unmake for great, unknown effect. Padded Armor, Longsword, Longbow, quiver w/20 steel-tipped arrows, 10 silver-tipped arrows, backpack, spellbook, quill and ink, sturdy parchment (10 sheets), 5 days rations, high leather boots, belt w/ belt pouch, gray robe, dark gray hooded cloak. Also carries 3 small mechanical toys: wind-up mouse, wooden puzzle cube, small jewelry box that plays a little tune.


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