Please don't kill the dumb guy... question about Hit Dice
Moderators: DJ LaBoss, finarvyn, michaelcurtis, Harley Stroh
-
- Deft-Handed Cutpurse
- Posts: 190
- Joined: Wed Jun 10, 2009 5:22 pm
- FLGS: Tabletop Games and 31st Century Games
- Location: Lenexa, KS
Please don't kill the dumb guy... question about Hit Dice
Hi guys,
I'm starting to come back to fantasy gaming, and I've chosen, (wisely), to make DCC my fantasy RPG of choice. I recently read most of the rulebook as it would pertain to a player, but I also wanted to try my hand at rolling up a dragon... just to see how it would unfold.
That's when I hit the Hit Dice thing. Maybe it's because I've been playing Call of Cthulhu for 20+ years and there is not concept of Hit Dice in that game, but I am dumb-struck.
My assumption was that Hit Dice were the number and type of dice I roll to generate the monster's Hit Points, but in the Dragon Table II, it says that the dragon has X number of Hit Points per Hit Die. So, I don't actually roll the Hit Dice on a dragon?
In my experiment I rolled on Dragon Table I, and got an Average Size dragon, so I got 1d8+4 Hit Dice. I rolled a 7, so I have 11 Hit Dice. I thought I was going to roll 11d12 to get my Hit Points, a potential to get 132 Hit Points, but more likely it'd be something in the neighborhood of 70 Hit Points. But then I look on Dragon Table II, and if I'm reading it right, my dragon will only have 55 Hit Points.
I'm so confused. So please, my questions are...
1. In general, how do you use/define "Hit Dice"?
2. Specifically, how do I use Hit Dice on a dragon?
Thanks. Me dumb.
I'm starting to come back to fantasy gaming, and I've chosen, (wisely), to make DCC my fantasy RPG of choice. I recently read most of the rulebook as it would pertain to a player, but I also wanted to try my hand at rolling up a dragon... just to see how it would unfold.
That's when I hit the Hit Dice thing. Maybe it's because I've been playing Call of Cthulhu for 20+ years and there is not concept of Hit Dice in that game, but I am dumb-struck.
My assumption was that Hit Dice were the number and type of dice I roll to generate the monster's Hit Points, but in the Dragon Table II, it says that the dragon has X number of Hit Points per Hit Die. So, I don't actually roll the Hit Dice on a dragon?
In my experiment I rolled on Dragon Table I, and got an Average Size dragon, so I got 1d8+4 Hit Dice. I rolled a 7, so I have 11 Hit Dice. I thought I was going to roll 11d12 to get my Hit Points, a potential to get 132 Hit Points, but more likely it'd be something in the neighborhood of 70 Hit Points. But then I look on Dragon Table II, and if I'm reading it right, my dragon will only have 55 Hit Points.
I'm so confused. So please, my questions are...
1. In general, how do you use/define "Hit Dice"?
2. Specifically, how do I use Hit Dice on a dragon?
Thanks. Me dumb.
- GnomeBoy
- Tyrant Master (Administrator)
- Posts: 4128
- Joined: Fri Mar 10, 2006 1:46 pm
- FLGS: Bizarro World
- Location: Left Coast, USA
- Contact:
Re: Please don't kill the dumb guy... question about Hit Dic
Dragons in DCC are an exception to the usual way Hit Dice work. Actually, the method jumps straight back to Old Fart D&D (certainly Holmes Basic, perhaps earlier).
Generally, yes, you'd roll your 11d12 (or whatever the HD are) to get the hit points for a creature.
But as you can see in Chart II, hit points are directly related to the Age of the Dragon. The number of hit points will also factor out as damage dealt by the breath weapon.
That help?
Generally, yes, you'd roll your 11d12 (or whatever the HD are) to get the hit points for a creature.
But as you can see in Chart II, hit points are directly related to the Age of the Dragon. The number of hit points will also factor out as damage dealt by the breath weapon.
That help?
...
Gnome Boy • DCC playtester @ DDC 35 Feb '11. • Beta DL 2111, 7AM PT, 8 June 11.
Playing RPGs since '77 • Quasi-occasional member of the Legion of 8th-Level Fighters.
Link: Here Be 100+ DCC Monsters
bygrinstow.com - The Home of Inner Ham
Gnome Boy • DCC playtester @ DDC 35 Feb '11. • Beta DL 2111, 7AM PT, 8 June 11.
Playing RPGs since '77 • Quasi-occasional member of the Legion of 8th-Level Fighters.
Link: Here Be 100+ DCC Monsters
bygrinstow.com - The Home of Inner Ham
-
- Deft-Handed Cutpurse
- Posts: 190
- Joined: Wed Jun 10, 2009 5:22 pm
- FLGS: Tabletop Games and 31st Century Games
- Location: Lenexa, KS
Re: Please don't kill the dumb guy... question about Hit Dic
Excellent. Thanks.
-
- Wild-Eyed Zealot
- Posts: 57
- Joined: Fri Apr 26, 2013 2:00 pm
Re: Please don't kill the dumb guy... question about Hit Dic
This came up in another thread a while ago - I read the hp per hit die as a modifier (like stamina modifier).
So roll the HD and add x HP per hit die same as if it was a stamina modifier. This seems to produce the HP totals more like I would expect too
So roll the HD and add x HP per hit die same as if it was a stamina modifier. This seems to produce the HP totals more like I would expect too
- GnomeBoy
- Tyrant Master (Administrator)
- Posts: 4128
- Joined: Fri Mar 10, 2006 1:46 pm
- FLGS: Bizarro World
- Location: Left Coast, USA
- Contact:
Re: Please don't kill the dumb guy... question about Hit Dic
However, that would make Jon's dragon have on average 126 hit points (vs. 55 by the method I suggest) -- and would mean that most likely it's breath weapon would do 126 points of damage, save for half. Which would mean, even saving for half, you're going to have a lot of characters (maybe ALL characters) dead if they get caught in just one breath attack. 10th Level Warrior hp average is 65 with no Stamina bonus. 10th Level Wizard with a +3 Stamina bonus would average 55. Maybe some folks are into that... But 55 damage, with a save for half seems more playable to me.maxinstuff wrote:This came up in another thread a while ago - I read the hp per hit die as a modifier (like stamina modifier).
So roll the HD and add x HP per hit die same as if it was a stamina modifier. This seems to produce the HP totals more like I would expect too
Maybe you're not adding your hp bonus to the breath weapon damage...?
...
Gnome Boy • DCC playtester @ DDC 35 Feb '11. • Beta DL 2111, 7AM PT, 8 June 11.
Playing RPGs since '77 • Quasi-occasional member of the Legion of 8th-Level Fighters.
Link: Here Be 100+ DCC Monsters
bygrinstow.com - The Home of Inner Ham
Gnome Boy • DCC playtester @ DDC 35 Feb '11. • Beta DL 2111, 7AM PT, 8 June 11.
Playing RPGs since '77 • Quasi-occasional member of the Legion of 8th-Level Fighters.
Link: Here Be 100+ DCC Monsters
bygrinstow.com - The Home of Inner Ham
-
- Deft-Handed Cutpurse
- Posts: 190
- Joined: Wed Jun 10, 2009 5:22 pm
- FLGS: Tabletop Games and 31st Century Games
- Location: Lenexa, KS
Re: Please don't kill the dumb guy... question about Hit Dic
Yeah, I think I will rule it as a straight X/Hit Dice as Hit Points per Dragon Table II.
To add insult to injury, I rolled "Smoke" as my dragon's breath weapon. Whooptie-doo.
To add insult to injury, I rolled "Smoke" as my dragon's breath weapon. Whooptie-doo.
- GnomeBoy
- Tyrant Master (Administrator)
- Posts: 4128
- Joined: Fri Mar 10, 2006 1:46 pm
- FLGS: Bizarro World
- Location: Left Coast, USA
- Contact:
Re: Please don't kill the dumb guy... question about Hit Dic
So the PCs are about to kill the dragon, or at least have injured it more than it thought was possible. It breathes smoke to confuse them and obscure itself. The PCs don't know that it's just smoke; the players are going to assume they need to make a Save, but you're saying "not now". They aren't going to know what to expect from that, and may scramble and stumble to get out of the cloud, assuming it is more insidious than a more typical breath weapon. Meanwhile, the dragon has a chance to escape, employ some other tactic, summon minions, etc....JonHook wrote:To add insult to injury, I rolled "Smoke" as my dragon's breath weapon. Whooptie-doo.
Smoke is a tactic, not a nuke.
...
Gnome Boy • DCC playtester @ DDC 35 Feb '11. • Beta DL 2111, 7AM PT, 8 June 11.
Playing RPGs since '77 • Quasi-occasional member of the Legion of 8th-Level Fighters.
Link: Here Be 100+ DCC Monsters
bygrinstow.com - The Home of Inner Ham
Gnome Boy • DCC playtester @ DDC 35 Feb '11. • Beta DL 2111, 7AM PT, 8 June 11.
Playing RPGs since '77 • Quasi-occasional member of the Legion of 8th-Level Fighters.
Link: Here Be 100+ DCC Monsters
bygrinstow.com - The Home of Inner Ham
-
- Deft-Handed Cutpurse
- Posts: 190
- Joined: Wed Jun 10, 2009 5:22 pm
- FLGS: Tabletop Games and 31st Century Games
- Location: Lenexa, KS
Re: Please don't kill the dumb guy... question about Hit Dic
Oooh. Good call. I like it.GnomeBoy wrote:So the PCs are about to kill the dragon, or at least have injured it more than it thought was possible. It breathes smoke to confuse them and obscure itself. The PCs don't know that it's just smoke; the players are going to assume they need to make a Save, but you're saying "not now". They aren't going to know what to expect from that, and may scramble and stumble to get out of the cloud, assuming it is more insidious than a more typical breath weapon. Meanwhile, the dragon has a chance to escape, employ some other tactic, summon minions, etc....JonHook wrote:To add insult to injury, I rolled "Smoke" as my dragon's breath weapon. Whooptie-doo.
Smoke is a tactic, not a nuke.
- Raven_Crowking
- Cold-Hearted Immortal
- Posts: 3159
- Joined: Fri Mar 16, 2012 9:41 am
- FLGS: The Sword & Board
- Contact:
Re: Please don't kill the dumb guy... question about Hit Dic
Also, if the dragon gets its ass kicked, it gets its ass kicked. This is a cool and swingy game where you are kicking ass one minute, and cringing in terror the next. It will even out.
SoBH pbp:
Cathbad the Meek (herbalist Wizard 1): AC 9; 4 hp; S 7, A 7, St 10, P 17, I 13, L 8; Neutral; Club, herbs, 50' rope, 50 cp; -1 to melee attack rolls. Hideous scar.
Cathbad the Meek (herbalist Wizard 1): AC 9; 4 hp; S 7, A 7, St 10, P 17, I 13, L 8; Neutral; Club, herbs, 50' rope, 50 cp; -1 to melee attack rolls. Hideous scar.
- Skyscraper
- Steely-Eyed Heathen-Slayer
- Posts: 660
- Joined: Wed Jul 04, 2012 12:23 pm
- Location: Montreal
Re: Please don't kill the dumb guy... question about Hit Dic
If you don't like smoke as the breath weapon, use something else. Tables are there IMO for use when you don't know what to use (which happens). Otherwise, just design your dragon as you see it. IMHO of course.
Maledict Brothbreath, level 4 warrior, STR 16 (+2) AGI 7 (-1) STA 12 PER 9 INT 10 LUCK 15 (+1), AC: 16 Refl: +1 Fort: +2 Will: +1; lawful; Armor of the Lion and Lily's Blade.
Brother Sufferus, level 4 cleric, STR 13 (+1) AGI 15 (+1) STA 11 PER 13 (+1) INT 10 LUCK 9, AC: 11 (13 if wounded, 15 if down to half hit points), Refl: +3 Fort: +2 Will: +3, chaotic, Robe of the Faith, Scourge of the Maimed One, Darts of Pain.
Brother Sufferus, level 4 cleric, STR 13 (+1) AGI 15 (+1) STA 11 PER 13 (+1) INT 10 LUCK 9, AC: 11 (13 if wounded, 15 if down to half hit points), Refl: +3 Fort: +2 Will: +3, chaotic, Robe of the Faith, Scourge of the Maimed One, Darts of Pain.
- Raven_Crowking
- Cold-Hearted Immortal
- Posts: 3159
- Joined: Fri Mar 16, 2012 9:41 am
- FLGS: The Sword & Board
- Contact:
Re: Please don't kill the dumb guy... question about Hit Dic
+1d24 to Skyscraper's comment.
SoBH pbp:
Cathbad the Meek (herbalist Wizard 1): AC 9; 4 hp; S 7, A 7, St 10, P 17, I 13, L 8; Neutral; Club, herbs, 50' rope, 50 cp; -1 to melee attack rolls. Hideous scar.
Cathbad the Meek (herbalist Wizard 1): AC 9; 4 hp; S 7, A 7, St 10, P 17, I 13, L 8; Neutral; Club, herbs, 50' rope, 50 cp; -1 to melee attack rolls. Hideous scar.