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 Post subject: "recovering the body"
PostPosted: Sat Jun 02, 2012 4:01 pm 
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Far-Sighted Wanderer

Joined: Sat Jun 02, 2012 3:48 pm
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The rules for death on p. 93 specify that if you come to the body of a fallen comrad who has officially died (reached 0 HP and failed to be healed for more rounds than their level), they can attempt a Luck save to actually be alive but badly hurt. That's cool; any sword and sorcery campaign should often have this sort of thing happen to its protagonists. But, it seems odd to apply this rule only when player characters are recovering a comrad's body (as seems to be implied). Surely, the character was alive before his friends rolled him over. And, he would have still been alive if an NPC had rolled him over. Or, like aragorn in the Two Towers movie, if his horse had poked him in the eye. So, it seems to me this rule should apply any time a non-0 level character 'dies' in some way that could have been survived (i.e., not including decapitation, boiling in acid, etc.). Thoughts?


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 Post subject: Re: "recovering the body"
PostPosted: Sat Jun 02, 2012 4:52 pm 
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Steely-Eyed Heathen-Slayer
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I like the thought of a beloved character getting a second chance via the luck roll no matter who or what rolls him over. I would allow this in my game.

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 Post subject: Re: "recovering the body"
PostPosted: Mon Dec 24, 2012 8:34 am 
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Far-Sighted Wanderer

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Am I correct in thinking the Luck check is just "roll under your luck"? It seems like a character with a high luck could "die" so many times that the physical stat loss eventually kills them before they miss a luck roll. They might wish they were dead at some point, being so scarred... Maybe I just need to kill off some more characters and see how this plays out.


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 Post subject: Re: "recovering the body"
PostPosted: Mon Dec 24, 2012 9:55 am 
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DCCfan wrote:
I like the thought of a beloved character getting a second chance via the luck roll no matter who or what rolls him over. I would allow this in my game.


Its your game. You can always "house rule " it. It could be an adventure in itself getting back to safety. Imagine if your character was left for dead in the dungeon, now alone, badly injured, perhaps stripped of his equipment. Now he has to get back.....

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 Post subject: Re: "recovering the body"
PostPosted: Mon Dec 24, 2012 10:51 am 
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Only a friendly can roll the body over. If something other than the party finds the body first, well... dinner time!

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RoM pbp:
Hamun Ry (Wiz 4)
Str 10 Agi 15 (+1) Sta 11 Per 11 Int 17 (+2) Luc 10 (Unholy House). Align: C. AC: 14. HP: 13. Melee +1, Ranged +2. Crit: d8, I. Save: Ref +5, Fort +3, Will +4.
Spells: 1: Choking Cloud, Comprehend Languages, Detect Magic (odd crystal growths), Magic Missile (mirror images), Runic Alphabet (Mortal) (ravenously hungry), Ventriloquism (rain of frogs)
2: Detect Invisible, Levitate (extremely difficult, d14), Mirror Image (20% chance to raise/lower luck by 1d3 points).
Equip: Ring of the Sand Djinn: +2 AC/saves, Invisibility for 1min/spellburn point, or unmake for great, unknown effect. Padded Armor, Longsword, Longbow, quiver w/20 steel-tipped arrows, 10 silver-tipped arrows, backpack, spellbook, quill and ink, sturdy parchment (10 sheets), 5 days rations, high leather boots, belt w/ belt pouch, gray robe, dark gray hooded cloak. Also carries 3 small mechanical toys: wind-up mouse, wooden puzzle cube, small jewelry box that plays a little tune.


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 Post subject: Re: "recovering the body"
PostPosted: Mon Dec 24, 2012 1:06 pm 
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Deft-Handed Cutpurse
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yeah, why not 0 level? The rules don't say anything about the Recovery being level limited. Bring back the 0 level dork! :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: "recovering the body"
PostPosted: Mon Dec 24, 2012 2:02 pm 
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Cold-Hearted Immortal
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That misses the point of the funnel, which is to winnow down the herd through player choices.

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RoM pbp:
Hamun Ry (Wiz 4)
Str 10 Agi 15 (+1) Sta 11 Per 11 Int 17 (+2) Luc 10 (Unholy House). Align: C. AC: 14. HP: 13. Melee +1, Ranged +2. Crit: d8, I. Save: Ref +5, Fort +3, Will +4.
Spells: 1: Choking Cloud, Comprehend Languages, Detect Magic (odd crystal growths), Magic Missile (mirror images), Runic Alphabet (Mortal) (ravenously hungry), Ventriloquism (rain of frogs)
2: Detect Invisible, Levitate (extremely difficult, d14), Mirror Image (20% chance to raise/lower luck by 1d3 points).
Equip: Ring of the Sand Djinn: +2 AC/saves, Invisibility for 1min/spellburn point, or unmake for great, unknown effect. Padded Armor, Longsword, Longbow, quiver w/20 steel-tipped arrows, 10 silver-tipped arrows, backpack, spellbook, quill and ink, sturdy parchment (10 sheets), 5 days rations, high leather boots, belt w/ belt pouch, gray robe, dark gray hooded cloak. Also carries 3 small mechanical toys: wind-up mouse, wooden puzzle cube, small jewelry box that plays a little tune.


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 Post subject: Re: "recovering the body"
PostPosted: Mon Dec 24, 2012 10:20 pm 
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Far-Sighted Wanderer
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Joined: Thu Apr 05, 2012 9:56 pm
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Location: Wellington, New Zealand
I've also been allowing the bad guys to use "recovering the body". My party has been going through a slightly modified version of Atarin's Delve, and retreated back to their home town after making particularly heavy going of it.
Upon their return, the bandits had swelled in number from what the party believed were left, because the bandits had rolled over a few of their own comrade's bodies.


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 Post subject: Re: "recovering the body"
PostPosted: Thu Apr 04, 2013 4:36 pm 
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Hard-Bitten Adventurer
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Joined: Mon Jul 30, 2012 2:40 pm
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Location: West Palm Beach, Fl
Recovering the body die rolls, which one do you guys use?

#1 D20 vs. current Luck Stat at time of Death, roll equal to or less and you've been recovered.

#2 Beat a DC21 on a D20 roll plus or minus your current Luck modifier to be recovered.

I ask because I currently use #1 and I allow a "natural 1" to always succeed.

On page 19 the book states: "Characters can make Luck checks to attempt feats that succeed based on Luck alone. The judge will provide the specifics of any attempt, but the attempt is usually resolved by rolling equal to or less than the character's Luck score on a 1d20."

That alone leads me to believe that #1 is the correct way to do this, but somewhere I found #2 also. I can't remember where I got that from. I guess in the long of it this really doesn't matter as I like #1 and that is what we do, but it has been nagging at me and I thought I would see what everyone else is actually "rolling".

Thanks!

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Ah well, who wants to live forever? DIE!
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 Post subject: Re: "recovering the body"
PostPosted: Fri Apr 05, 2013 6:41 pm 
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Steely-Eyed Heathen-Slayer
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I use #1. I don't remember option #2 at all. If you find the page number post it for me please.

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"When creating your character,choose an ethical system that can justify nearly any fit of temper, greed, cowardice, or vindictiveness, for example, Chaotic Violent..."

THE PROTOCOLS, ADVANCED PROTOCOL #10


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 Post subject: Re: "recovering the body"
PostPosted: Sat Apr 06, 2013 5:56 am 
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Hard-Bitten Adventurer

Joined: Thu Apr 09, 2009 7:14 pm
Posts: 156
I home ruled it to this. Make a only luck modified roll against DC 12.

First of all Players HATE to roll a nat 20 to save there characters and fail.

Second of all I'm a softy and figured a base chance of like 40% was big enough for death to still sting but give the guys a break from time to time.

Third of all Luck in my games seems to hang around the toilet. The players eat tons of badness for this already. Perhaps im a little too miserly with the luck points.

Even with a -2 penalty to the roll it lets them save there character with a 14 or higher. I can live with that.


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 Post subject: Re: "recovering the body"
PostPosted: Sat Apr 06, 2013 3:30 pm 
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Tight-Lipped Warlock

Joined: Fri Jan 28, 2011 2:52 pm
Posts: 1086
Gameogre wrote:
I home ruled it to this. Make a only luck modified roll against DC 12.

First of all Players HATE to roll a nat 20 to save there characters and fail.

Second of all I'm a softy and figured a base chance of like 40% was big enough for death to still sting but give the guys a break from time to time.

Third of all Luck in my games seems to hang around the toilet. The players eat tons of badness for this already. Perhaps im a little too miserly with the luck points.

Even with a -2 penalty to the roll it lets them save there character with a 14 or higher. I can live with that.


I was being a grinch with the Luck points at first. But I've made myself aware of when to hand them out. It really seems to equate (for me) to the more Luck you give, the more they spend, the more fun we have.

As far as "recovering the body", that's one of those rules I always forgot at the worst moment. I use the Death/Dying rules I wrote up for TATG now. They only come up every once in a while. They solve a couple of issues I'd had with the default rules while keeping the game pretty doggone lethal. Earlier passes at the rules were a good deal less lethal. The latest rules are a good upgrade.


Last edited by smathis on Sat Aug 24, 2013 10:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: "recovering the body"
PostPosted: Thu Jun 20, 2013 2:55 am 
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I am seriously thinking about having players (and NPCs) make a second successful attack roll to confirm critical hits.

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 Post subject: Re: "recovering the body"
PostPosted: Thu Jun 20, 2013 6:52 am 
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Cold-Blooded Diabolist

Joined: Mon Feb 09, 2009 11:14 am
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I am also interested in the best ways to make rolls be high=good like with a DC. I guess you could do luck check DC = 20-luck score.


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 Post subject: Re: "recovering the body"
PostPosted: Thu Jun 20, 2013 1:00 pm 
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Steely-Eyed Heathen-Slayer
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Joined: Wed Jul 04, 2012 2:23 pm
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Clangador wrote:
I am seriously thinking about having players (and NPCs) make a second successful attack roll to confirm critical hits.


I don't like this rule. This is a party pooper. It's like: crit! Oh no, I need to roll. Oh noooo, I miss the crit :(

Crits are fun. Let'em have'em! :)

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Maledict Brothbreath, level 4 warrior, STR 16 (+2) AGI 7 (-1) STA 12 PER 9 INT 10 LUCK 15 (+1), AC: 16 Refl: +1 Fort: +2 Will: +1; lawful; Armor of the Lion and Lily's Blade.

Brother Sufferus, level 4 cleric, STR 13 (+1) AGI 15 (+1) STA 11 PER 13 (+1) INT 10 LUCK 9, AC: 11 (13 if wounded, 15 if down to half hit points), Refl: +3 Fort: +2 Will: +3, chaotic, Robe of the Faith, Scourge of the Maimed One, Darts of Pain.


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 Post subject: Re: "recovering the body"
PostPosted: Thu Jun 20, 2013 2:01 pm 
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Wild-Eyed Zealot
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Skyscraper wrote:
Clangador wrote:
I am seriously thinking about having players (and NPCs) make a second successful attack roll to confirm critical hits.


I don't like this rule. This is a party pooper. It's like: crit! Oh no, I need to roll. Oh noooo, I miss the crit :(

Crits are fun. Let'em have'em! :)


They are not that fun when a PC suffers them.

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I'm not a wizard but I play one in DCC...

Join the DCC RPG Facebook group.


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 Post subject: Re: "recovering the body"
PostPosted: Thu Jun 20, 2013 4:31 pm 
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Clangador wrote:
Skyscraper wrote:
Clangador wrote:
I am seriously thinking about having players (and NPCs) make a second successful attack roll to confirm critical hits.


I don't like this rule. This is a party pooper. It's like: crit! Oh no, I need to roll. Oh noooo, I miss the crit :(

Crits are fun. Let'em have'em! :)


They are not that fun when a PC suffers them.

My players find them fun even when they suffer. I have the kind of players who would choose the clumsy dwarf over the powerful one because the former had a memorable encounter where the Hound of Hirot wounded his throat making him silent forever, which made it a more interesting character than the latter.

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Last edited by Ravenheart87 on Sat Jun 22, 2013 11:04 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: "recovering the body"
PostPosted: Fri Jun 21, 2013 8:14 am 
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Steely-Eyed Heathen-Slayer
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Joined: Wed Jul 04, 2012 2:23 pm
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+1.

In our last session, the warrior fumbled and attacked his ally thief instead of his opponent, taking him down. Fumbles and crits spice things up!

This being said, I can see the argument for not wanting them, as they do not promote PC longevity.

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Maledict Brothbreath, level 4 warrior, STR 16 (+2) AGI 7 (-1) STA 12 PER 9 INT 10 LUCK 15 (+1), AC: 16 Refl: +1 Fort: +2 Will: +1; lawful; Armor of the Lion and Lily's Blade.

Brother Sufferus, level 4 cleric, STR 13 (+1) AGI 15 (+1) STA 11 PER 13 (+1) INT 10 LUCK 9, AC: 11 (13 if wounded, 15 if down to half hit points), Refl: +3 Fort: +2 Will: +3, chaotic, Robe of the Faith, Scourge of the Maimed One, Darts of Pain.


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 Post subject: Re: "recovering the body"
PostPosted: Fri Jun 21, 2013 2:39 pm 
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Cold-Blooded Diabolist

Joined: Fri Apr 06, 2012 3:36 am
Posts: 525
Criticals are fantastic in DCC.

...matter of fact, just the last session of DCC I ran the party ran across a critical that not one player at the table is going to ever forget: They were facing off against an evil priest as their two ships drew into a naval battle, a great storm had rolled in and frogs were raining from the sky. The party readied their weapons, commanded the crew... and then every last one of them melted into nothingness!

Evil priest rolled a critical on casting affliction of the gods and not one of the PCs could pass their save because the critical rules for spells (add caster level into the result again) and the rule that saves against spells are always at the check result of the caster do not really mix well in practice.

Unfortunately, that TPK put us at a narrative "well... guess the antagonists win," spot for the campaign, which means I need to spend some time thinking of the ramifications and move the setting forward a touch before having other characters begin a campaign of their own.

Hard to believe that all but 2 of the people on the party's roster of allies, connections, and playable characters went down from one lucky die roll.

Though I do count myself blessed: not one of the players said "looks like I am never playing DCC again" in response to the sudden campaign kill.


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 Post subject: Re: "recovering the body"
PostPosted: Sat Jun 22, 2013 6:18 am 
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Cold-Hearted Immortal
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You could always take a page from the rules, open the next session with the same characters in Hell, and let them fight their way out. Imagine the surprised look on the cleric's face when they come back? Imagine how funny it would be if the encounter concluded in the same way it previously did........

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Cathbad the Meek (herbalist Wizard 1): AC 9; 4 hp; S 7, A 7, St 10, P 17, I 13, L 8; Neutral; Club, herbs, 50' rope, 50 cp; -1 to melee attack rolls. Hideous scar.


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 Post subject: Re: "recovering the body"
PostPosted: Mon Jun 24, 2013 6:46 pm 
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A question about how to check luck for rolling over the body came up today. It seems that the beta rules say this is a Luck test versus DC 10, but the final rules just say "Luck check" which is roll under Luck on a d20. This is an important difference in that a character making a test with low luck still gets a decent chance, but roll-under for that same character could be very hard.

Which is it?


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 Post subject: Re: "recovering the body"
PostPosted: Tue Jun 25, 2013 5:10 am 
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Cold-Hearted Immortal
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I can't recall why things were changed here, but I think the final rules trump the Beta rules on things like this.

On the other hand, if you like the Beta rule better, go with it. It's your campaign. 8)

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"The worthy GM never purposely kills players' PCs, He presents opportunities for the rash and unthinking players to do that all on their own."
-- Gary Gygax
"Don't ask me what you need to hit. Just roll the die and I will let you know!"
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 Post subject: Re: "recovering the body"
PostPosted: Tue Jun 25, 2013 8:29 am 
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Deft-Handed Cutpurse
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Konig wrote:
A question about how to check luck for rolling over the body came up today. It seems that the beta rules say this is a Luck test versus DC 10, but the final rules just say "Luck check" which is roll under Luck on a d20. This is an important difference in that a character making a test with low luck still gets a decent chance, but roll-under for that same character could be very hard.

Which is it?


We do it as the final rules say. A luck check for recovering the body is the character rolling under their luck score. And yep, be careful how you spend your luck as you might not be as easily able to make a luck check when recovering the body!


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 Post subject: Re: "recovering the body"
PostPosted: Tue Jun 25, 2013 2:34 pm 
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Steely-Eyed Heathen-Slayer
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Raven_Crowking wrote:
You could always take a page from the rules, open the next session with the same characters in Hell, and let them fight their way out. Imagine the surprised look on the cleric's face when they come back? Imagine how funny it would be if the encounter concluded in the same way it previously did........


That's a great idea.

Although... I'd have them all suffer an affliction of some sort. Nothing too nasty, just a little something to remember the guy by.

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Maledict Brothbreath, level 4 warrior, STR 16 (+2) AGI 7 (-1) STA 12 PER 9 INT 10 LUCK 15 (+1), AC: 16 Refl: +1 Fort: +2 Will: +1; lawful; Armor of the Lion and Lily's Blade.

Brother Sufferus, level 4 cleric, STR 13 (+1) AGI 15 (+1) STA 11 PER 13 (+1) INT 10 LUCK 9, AC: 11 (13 if wounded, 15 if down to half hit points), Refl: +3 Fort: +2 Will: +3, chaotic, Robe of the Faith, Scourge of the Maimed One, Darts of Pain.


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 Post subject: Re: "recovering the body"
PostPosted: Tue Jun 25, 2013 3:58 pm 
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Cold-Blooded Diabolist

Joined: Fri Apr 06, 2012 3:36 am
Posts: 525
Skyscraper wrote:
Raven_Crowking wrote:
You could always take a page from the rules, open the next session with the same characters in Hell, and let them fight their way out. Imagine the surprised look on the cleric's face when they come back? Imagine how funny it would be if the encounter concluded in the same way it previously did........


That's a great idea.

Although... I'd have them all suffer an affliction of some sort. Nothing too nasty, just a little something to remember the guy by.

The only reason I am not doing that very thing is that life and schedule changes amongst the group playing the campaign have put a kind of hard limit on how much time we have to finish up the campaign... which has already been running steady for nearly a year (we are about 5 or 6 weeks short, specifically) and has only gotten through 5 of 15 modules combined to create it.

We are all just in a place where switching systems and having a "do over" so that our chance of seeing the campaign through to the end was greater ended up being more appealing than the alternative.

I think really it is just that the campaign I wanted to run doesn't mesh well with DCC's style - too linear, too many goals, too many moving parts in one giant conspiracy, and too much forced urgency in the plot because of it.


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