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 Post subject: Ability Checks vs Ability "TESTS"
PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2012 12:45 pm 
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I'm a stickler for conventions (not just meetings, but standards.) and the Dice Chains... thread got me thinking. It's going to be confusing if we're going to be using Luck checks as a "d20 roll under the score" thing as opposed to d20 add your Modifier. A lot of us, especially used to d20 & 3e, are used to any Checks meaning Roll a d20 and add your appropriate modifier. But if the Judge says, "make a Luck Check," it means roll under your Luck with a d20. Confusing!

I propose a convention for Checks vs what I want to call Tests. Checks are what we're used to, roll a d20 (or funky die?) and add your mod. While Tests would be pure TESTS of Strength, Luck or whatever. No classes or occupations would be in consideration. I think this is very much a Save in C&C? (I don't know, I don't own it.) Testing your LUCK would mean just that, Roll a D20 and roll under. You could even make it crazy and say TEST YOUR LUCK with a d16. Test your Luck with a d24. Or, as I would do, test your luck with 3d6.

To simplify, TEST means roll under your score, CHECK means roll add your mod higher than the Judges arbitrary DC.

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 Post subject: Re: Ability Checks vs Ability "TESTS"
PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2012 4:46 pm 
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reverenddak wrote:
I propose a convention for Checks vs what I want to call Tests. Checks are what we're used to, roll a d20 (or funky die?) and add your mod. While Tests would be pure TESTS of Strength, Luck or whatever. No classes or occupations would be in consideration. I think this is very much a Save in C&C? (I don't know, I don't own it.)


The concept of the "save" in C&C is still a d20+relevant bonus/penalty -- in C&C, you have a specific DC built in (typically) and it depends on your "primary" ability, which is chosen at character creation. So, for example, if your DEX is 15 and it's a "primary" the base DC for a DEX save is 12. If DEX isn't a primary, the base DC is 15 (I think...yeah...15). The base DC can be adjusted up or down by a Challenge Level. So, if a lock is deemed CL 4, a person with DEX as a primary would have a DC of 16 to pick the lock, while someone without DEX as a primary would have a DC of 19 to pick the lock... So, you still roll over... is the short answer.

AD&D was the "roll under your stat" mechanic for skills and such.

I'm all for a unified system. For Luck, maybe make a "luck check" of a certain DC and if you roll over it gives you a bonus to the actual roll? Dunno. We've been using Luck as simply a burn mechanic (like action points in 3.5)-- not as an actual skill roll. I haven't completely digested the core rules -- waiting on the physical book to save my eyes!

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 Post subject: Re: Ability Checks vs Ability "TESTS"
PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2012 6:37 pm 
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ragboy wrote:
waiting on the physical book to save my eyes!


I hear you. the Letter sized format doesn't make it any easier.

There are two philosophies when it comes to "target numbers". Some people, and I have to say they tend to be power gamers, prefer to know what they have to roll. While others, and DMs like me, like to keep the "target" hidden. Dave Arneson obviously liked keeping them secret (I can't find his quote.) But sometimes it's easier to do something like "Make a saving throw", the player knows what to roll, and immediately knows when they succeed. My idea for Ability tests can work like that, and as a hack or mod, you don't have to change anything on your character sheet. I've pretty much have already been doing it for a while now, but I've been doing all the rolls, basically using their Ability scores as Passive checks. But by calling them Tests, they separate them from "Checks." And since the Luck "check" (or what I'll be calling Tests" are in the Core Rules, I'll start letting them roll their own dice.

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 Post subject: Re: Ability Checks vs Ability "TESTS"
PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2012 7:00 pm 
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Or just tell the players to roll a 20 sider. I love making them do that for no reason, they get so paranoid. I toss random notes to players to do the same. In fact one guy tried tossing a note to me (I was the DM) and I laughed and told another player to roll a 20 sider, my note said to the original player, "I love making inter party strife!".

Yeah I think ability rolls and skill rolls could get confusing and I agree with changing terminology.


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 Post subject: Re: Ability Checks vs Ability "TESTS"
PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2012 11:21 pm 
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I like the "Test" convention

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 Post subject: Re: Ability Checks vs Ability "TESTS"
PostPosted: Thu Apr 26, 2012 6:31 am 
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Personally, the DM should just tell what the player(s) need to roll then ask them to add any appropriate modifiers. Or if it is something that the player is unaware of, just ask them what thier stat is and roll it for them. With that being said, to keep us players on our toes, make some completely random rolls that pertain to absolutely nothing. Sometimes when the DM rolls, it immediately adds suspence to what is going on. I love it not knowing when something is going to jump out at you!

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 Post subject: Re: Ability Checks vs Ability "TESTS"
PostPosted: Thu Apr 26, 2012 6:53 am 
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Ok this thread has confused me a bit. Just to clarify, the Rules As Written for attempting anything in DCC (that has a chance of failure) is:

Roll 1d20 (or 1d10 if not supported by profession), add relevant ability modifier, beat DC to succeed. If relevant ability score is equal or greater than DC, action automatically succeeds.

Is that right?


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 Post subject: Re: Ability Checks vs Ability "TESTS"
PostPosted: Fri Apr 27, 2012 12:26 am 
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Yeah, you're right. But some DM's ask for a d20 roll equal to or under a stat. Its the AD&D ability check. Dude has suggested calling them "Tests" which I think is a great idea, since I'm thinking of bringing them back more often myself. My idea, posted in another thread is to ask for TESTs using different dice rather than imposing modifiers.

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 Post subject: Re: Ability Checks vs Ability "TESTS"
PostPosted: Fri Apr 27, 2012 5:28 am 
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Galadrin wrote:
Ok this thread has confused me a bit. Just to clarify, the Rules As Written for attempting anything in DCC (that has a chance of failure) is:

Roll 1d20 (or 1d10 if not supported by profession), add relevant ability modifier, beat DC to succeed. If relevant ability score is equal or greater than DC, action automatically succeeds.

Is that right?


Not exactly......under the luck stat it states when making a luck check, roll under the stat.


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