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 Post subject: New Player - Action Dice
PostPosted: Sun Sep 03, 2017 12:01 pm 
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Ill-Fated Peasant

Joined: Wed Jun 08, 2011 5:39 am
Posts: 7
Hi, new player. I just bought the book and have been leafing through it, but something has immediately jumped out at me as explained rather poorly.

Action Dice.

According to page 77, "A character has one or more actions each round, expressed as action dice [...] Each round, a character or monster may move its normal speed and do one thing for each of its action dice." (bold mine). Okay, so far so good: you get a number of actions equal to your action dice, and you effectively perform actions by "spending" action dice, from what I can tell.

So what kind of actions can you do? The rulebook states:

"All characters can take another movement for their actions."

Okay, so if I have 3 action dice, I can move up to 4 times (including the one free move I have per round)?

"A warrior can make an attack for each of his actions, rolling a d20 for the first one and a different die for the second."

Ummm .... does that mean the second action die can only be used if the first one is an attack, and it can only be used for an attack? Or could he move twice, and then attack with his second attack die? Or move once, attack with his first attack die, and then move again? And what about the third action die gained at 10th level? Even the Warrior's Action dice on Page 42 (unnumbered?) only mentions a second action die.

"A wizard can attack or cast a spell with the first die and can only cast a spell with the second action die."

This is more explicit that the second action die can only be used to cast a spell, but with the same level of explicitness it says that the first die can only be used to attack or cast a spell (no extra movement, despite what the first item says).

"And so on, according to class descriptions."

All the class descriptions seem to be "attack, and maybe one other thing, like cast a spell". But what if they want to spend an action in a round doing something other than attacking, like jumping over a chasm? Only the Thief seems to be allowed to use action dice for "any normal activity", according to the class descriptions. On page 78 it lists a bunch of activities that also take 1 action, but apparently none of the classes but Thieves are allowed to spend an action die to do them? Three of the listed activities say that they can be included as part of a movement action. Does that include the free move you get every round? What's the point of it being listed as 1 action if it can be included in a free action? Is there a limit to how many can be done in a free action?

I must say, I am quite flummoxed at how poorly defined just performing an action is in this game. Is there some primer I am missing?


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 03, 2017 3:05 pm 
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Hard-Bitten Adventurer
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Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2011 7:35 pm
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Location: Travelling the Otherworld
Hiya

Well since Beta its seems to have been 1 move action (with a few things that can be combined with that) 1 standard action using a d20. Then if you have multiple action dice then you can use these for your class specific area.

So spell casters cast spells on action dice 2+ Warriors get an extra attack and so forth. No 3x or 4x moves sorry. 1 Move and one general, then any extra class specific actions on dice number 2+

Maybe its not quite as cleaer as it should be. a Lot of assumptions were made with DCC the basic one being you were a long time RPG (Read D&D) player, maybe this needs a review IDK? I'm not the one to ask as I have been doing this stuff since the 70's.........!

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{Standard Disclaimer} If it was mentioned already and I missed it, please put this down to my advanced age and senility rather than discourtesy!
My DCC spell work page is here https://docs.google.com/document/pub?id=1x_NmKhGbZLBukbWH78qR-38ebmMULEIbz1vt64YaILM


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 03, 2017 6:00 pm 
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Ill-Fated Peasant

Joined: Wed Jun 08, 2011 5:39 am
Posts: 7
Thank you, that greatly clears things up.


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 03, 2017 7:03 pm 
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Cold-Hearted Immortal
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Joined: Fri Mar 10, 2006 1:46 pm
Posts: 3126
Location: Left Coast, USA
FLGS: Bizarro World
islan wrote:
I must say, I am quite flummoxed at how poorly defined just performing an action is in this game. Is there some primer I am missing?

The ethos of the game is to be hackable to whatever extreme you prefer.

An Action Die would be used for any action that requires a check. Jumping a chasm with no particular breadth, while not being chased by goblins, may require no check at all. Then again, if it's just beyond "easy" for a human, plus you're being chased (so time is important) then it will require a check and thus an Action Die.

It sounds a bit like you're coming to this from the "what does the game let me do?" perspective -- whereas if you move over to the "I can try to do anything that a human being could try to do..." side of things it may then make more sense.

And FWIW, I believe the intent is giving up ALL of your Action Dice to gain an extra move. But rule it whatever way you prefer...

_________________
Gnome Boy (aka "Jon") • DCC play-tester @ DDC 35, Feb 2011. • Beta DL 2111, 7:00 AM PT, 8 June 11.
Playing RPGs since 1977 • Quasi-occasional member of the Legion of 8th-Level Fighters.

Link: Here Be DCC Monsters

PbP Purple Planeteers!

Kelven • Smuggler • L • S14 A8 S11 P12 I7 L10
AC9+, HP4, Mv 30, In -1, R-1 F0 W0
Sword +1 _
Staff +1 or Sling -1 1d4+1
Scale, Flask, waterproof sack, 50’ rope, torch, 21 cp

Toby • Squire • C • S13 A10 S14 P15 I16 L9
AC10+, HP3, Mv 30, In 0, R0 F1 W1
Longsword +1 1d8+1
Scale, Lg sack, steel helmet, 50’ rope, torch • Common, Chaos, Hobgoblin

Havarth • Animal trainer • L • S11 A11 S9 P15 I9 L10
AC10, HP1 (of 4), Mv 30, In 0, R0 F0 W1
Glaive +0 1d10
Club +0 1d4
Chain 10', pony, lg sack, 18 cp

Lucius • Slave • N • S13 A11 S8 P15 I11 L11
AC10+, HP1, Mv 30, In 0, R0 F-1 W1
Sword +1 _
Flint Dagger +1 [thrown]
Club +1 1d4+1
Hide, Flint/steel, strange rock, oil (1)
Crit table +1

RIP
Stinky Pete, Ostler — Spine snapped by a tackling Kith


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 04, 2017 3:25 am 
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Ill-Fated Peasant

Joined: Wed Jun 08, 2011 5:39 am
Posts: 7
GnomeBoy wrote:
The ethos of the game is to be hackable to whatever extreme you prefer.

[...]

It sounds a bit like you're coming to this from the "what does the game let me do?" perspective -- whereas if you move over to the "I can try to do anything that a human being could try to do..." side of things it may then make more sense.


I don't think it is at all unreasonable for a game to at least be clear how you do things as a baseline, even if it also encourages you to modify that with GM technique. As it stands, the most basic rule of an RPG is quite unclear and contradictory in this product that I just bought. It greatly reminds me of the mess that was initiative in 1st ed AD&D.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 05, 2017 5:10 am 
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Hard-Bitten Adventurer

Joined: Thu Mar 25, 2010 4:42 pm
Posts: 166
Location: Crystal Lake, IL
islan wrote:
As it stands, the most basic rule of an RPG is quite unclear and contradictory in this product that I just bought.

Are you looking for a refund? Do you want someone to take this game off your hands?

I mean, I have like 15 copies of the core....but if you are really offended by this obvious slight to the entire gaming community at large, I'll be happy to take yours off your hands for like...$20 or something. Is it gold foil, per chance?

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 05, 2017 8:57 pm 
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Cold-Hearted Immortal
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Joined: Fri Mar 10, 2006 1:46 pm
Posts: 3126
Location: Left Coast, USA
FLGS: Bizarro World
The answer may be difficult because it is simple: Action Dice are for actions. Don't overthink it. A character wants to do something and it's not clear that it's automatically a success? Roll an Action Die.

Maybe a re-read of page 10 and possibly of page 12 would also help you.

If it doesn't become clearer, I'm happy to try to help further. You may also benefit from reading a bit of some of the Play-by-Post games in the Play-by-Post section...

_________________
Gnome Boy (aka "Jon") • DCC play-tester @ DDC 35, Feb 2011. • Beta DL 2111, 7:00 AM PT, 8 June 11.
Playing RPGs since 1977 • Quasi-occasional member of the Legion of 8th-Level Fighters.

Link: Here Be DCC Monsters

PbP Purple Planeteers!

Kelven • Smuggler • L • S14 A8 S11 P12 I7 L10
AC9+, HP4, Mv 30, In -1, R-1 F0 W0
Sword +1 _
Staff +1 or Sling -1 1d4+1
Scale, Flask, waterproof sack, 50’ rope, torch, 21 cp

Toby • Squire • C • S13 A10 S14 P15 I16 L9
AC10+, HP3, Mv 30, In 0, R0 F1 W1
Longsword +1 1d8+1
Scale, Lg sack, steel helmet, 50’ rope, torch • Common, Chaos, Hobgoblin

Havarth • Animal trainer • L • S11 A11 S9 P15 I9 L10
AC10, HP1 (of 4), Mv 30, In 0, R0 F0 W1
Glaive +0 1d10
Club +0 1d4
Chain 10', pony, lg sack, 18 cp

Lucius • Slave • N • S13 A11 S8 P15 I11 L11
AC10+, HP1, Mv 30, In 0, R0 F-1 W1
Sword +1 _
Flint Dagger +1 [thrown]
Club +1 1d4+1
Hide, Flint/steel, strange rock, oil (1)
Crit table +1

RIP
Stinky Pete, Ostler — Spine snapped by a tackling Kith


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