Goodman Games

Fan Forums
It is currently Wed Jul 23, 2014 6:27 pm

All times are UTC - 6 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 566 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10 ... 23  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: 2012: Transylvanian Adventures & The Transylvanian Grimo
PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2012 6:37 am 
Offline
Tight-Lipped Warlock

Joined: Fri Jan 28, 2011 2:52 pm
Posts: 1084
randraug wrote:
Do you see the warrior as Inigo Montoya and the charger as Fezzik, using Princess Bride terms?


That's a possibility.

In strictly TA/TG terms...

Fezzik would be a Charger, Inigo would be a Redeemable or Hunter upgraded exclusively on a weapon path (longsword), Wesley would be a Redeemable (possibly cross-upgraded with a Valiant) and Buttercup would be a Valiant.

So, yep, it looks like the Princess Bride gives us a pretty decent party for TA/TG. End result would be as if John Carpenter and Michael Bey wrote a sequel, for better or worse. And Humperdink would need to be turned into a Vampire Noble, possibly thanks to the sorcery of the 6-Fingered Man...

If that sounds fun, then stay tuned!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: A Matter of Vampire VS Religions Not of Their Own.
PostPosted: Sun Jun 03, 2012 8:25 pm 
Offline
Far-Sighted Wanderer

Joined: Sun May 27, 2012 11:41 pm
Posts: 25
A quick but VERY important question, since it has been established that your character can be of any nationlity or faith.

In Transylvanian Adventures, would a Vampire or evil creature be repelled by the Holy Symbol of any Good-Hearted Religion, or ONLY the one he (or his culture, if he was athiest) had truck with.

This came up because in a Game of Vampire The Masquerade we had THIS delightful incident.
Christian Priest: (Waving Cross at Chinese Vampire) The Power of Christ Compels You!! The Power of Christ Compels You!!
Chinese Vampire: (Bored, thoroughly offended look on face) I'm a Buddhist, you racist, sanctimonious jackass!! (Rips head off priest)

In this case, Vampires generally see themselves as an abberation and afffront to the laws of nature set by their religion in life, and would logically only feel shame when presented with that which is sacred to their faith.

Similarly, would this also apply in Translyvanian Adventures, or would a Good, Pure and Brave Heart with Faith be enough to hold Dracula at bay, even if you are holding a Manji while chanting Buddhist scriptures?

Food For Thought. :wink:


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: A Matter of Vampire VS Religions Not of Their Own.
PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2012 7:54 am 
Offline
Tight-Lipped Warlock

Joined: Fri Jan 28, 2011 2:52 pm
Posts: 1084
Liu Jen Hao wrote:
A quick but VERY important question, since it has been established that your character can be of any nationlity or faith.

In Transylvanian Adventures, would a Vampire or evil creature be repelled by the Holy Symbol of any Good-Hearted Religion, or ONLY the one he (or his culture, if he was athiest) had truck with.

This came up because in a Game of Vampire The Masquerade we had THIS delightful incident.
Christian Priest: (Waving Cross at Chinese Vampire) The Power of Christ Compels You!! The Power of Christ Compels You!!
Chinese Vampire: (Bored, thoroughly offended look on face) I'm a Buddhist, you racist, sanctimonious jackass!! (Rips head off priest)

In this case, Vampires generally see themselves as an abberation and afffront to the laws of nature set by their religion in life, and would logically only feel shame when presented with that which is sacred to their faith.

Similarly, would this also apply in Translyvanian Adventures, or would a Good, Pure and Brave Heart with Faith be enough to hold Dracula at bay, even if you are holding a Manji while chanting Buddhist scriptures?

Food For Thought. :wink:


This is a good point.

As written, it's pretty much the last part. A "Good, Pure and Brave Heart with Faith (will) be enough to hold Dracula at bay" with a couple of sticks crossed, a legit crucifix, a star of david, an octagonal mirror, a couple of sticks of sandalwood -- basically any object of faith with which that character would identify. The actual Turn result is more a measure of whether or not this works. In that respect, the dice roll is pretty important too. ;)

The Chinese Vampire situation is defused a bit by the setting being Transylvania. Not many Chinese Vampires in Transylvania. If a group wanted to be more stringent about it and have situations where a Buddhist vampire is unaffected by turn attempts with a cross, that's cool. But TA/TG doesn't assume that to be the case. It might diminish some of the classes (especially the Polymath) where Turning is a big part of what they do. But it wouldn't break anything.

As an interesting aside, there are all sorts of situations in the Hammer movies where an irreligious, even agnostic or borderline atheist, character holds a vampire at bay with a couple of wooden sticks. So I sort of took that as faith and purpose being more fundamental than the religious symbol. I'd say that the character would have more success using a religious symbol that he'd think would work (either having seen it work before or believing that it could) and would probably give a -4 to the roll if a character was using something completely random or that didn't make sense for the character -- as would be the case with a Taoist priest using a rosary or crucifix or something.

Religion in the game (as well as the genre) is pragmatic -- almost to a mercenary degree. Such that, if I'm a Hunter from -- say -- France and the Polymath in our group is a Taoist priest from China... And if I've tried to use this wooden crucifix a few times and just haven't rolled well... Yet I've seen the Taoist priest hold back big nasty demon things with a tiny little mirror or a bell... I could use those based on my belief that they will work. That happens all the time in the movies. Even though it's people randomly picking up crosses and such.

Certain monsters are turned by a some classes and the requirement is that the character holds up some sort of symbol that they believe will work to hold the monster at bay. In theory, this could get really weird. Say I'm a Chaotic Polymath and I worship an undisclosed evil goddess of chance and a symbol that's holy to me is a playing card depicting the Ace of Spades. I use this to turn creatures. Well, the Valiant sees me do this and thinks "hey, that could work". So she starts doing it too. She's not a convert. She just believes it will work because she's seen it work. Might as well be magic to her. TA/TG is fine with that. If the Valiant is Lawful, however, using that Chaotic Holy Symbol might incur some Luck point loss over time. And full on converting to a Chaotic alignment will definitely affect how that character plays but that's the way the Vampire Lord crumbles.

For those keeping score... Yes, there are Chaotic Valiants. Yes, they play differently than Lawful Valiants. All classes differ by alignment in the same way that the DCC Thief does. Some more than others. But they all have significant variations in competency based on their alignment.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 2012: Transylvanian Adventures & The Transylvanian Grimo
PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2012 8:07 am 
Offline
Tight-Lipped Warlock

Joined: Fri Jan 28, 2011 2:52 pm
Posts: 1084
I also wanted to note that I've just noticed this thread jumped past 5000 views. That's awesome, even though I have no doubt somewhere between 5-10% of those views are mine. :D

All the questions, conversations and excitement around TA/TG has really inspired me. It definitely is getting done faster the more interest that's coming its way. And I appreciate everyone taking the time to read through this gargantuan thread, giving feedback and asking questions.

As a big thanks to all of you, I'd like to post something to the blog this week or next. Sometime after the Theorist comes out. Not sure what that would (or should) be right now. So I'm wide open for suggestions. I wouldn't want to post something from the book that may change drastically before publication. So there are some rules tweaks in there I'd be reluctant to post. But I'm willing and able to put up a small(ish) section of the book on the blog as a big thanks to everyone.

It could be a sidebar. A character from one of the playtests. Maybe one of the rules tweaks that you all might be interested in. Or a screenshot of part of the hexmap. Maybe a write-up from some of the more memorable moments in the playtest.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 2012: Transylvanian Adventures & The Transylvanian Grimo
PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2012 2:12 pm 
Offline
Far-Sighted Wanderer

Joined: Sat May 26, 2012 10:50 am
Posts: 27
This may or may not be related to the blog post, but I really want to know how multiclassing works. Is there a unified xp table (a la 3e) or is there a variable xp table (DCC RPG) for each class? And, either way, how does multiclassing work? Is it like Castles & Crusades (i.e. you add xp goals for next level for each class together to get your multiclassed xp table)? 2e? 3e?

Inquiring minds want to know, 'cause I think multi-classing with some of the classes would be pretty interesting.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 2012: Transylvanian Adventures & The Transylvanian Grimo
PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2012 11:10 pm 
Offline
Far-Sighted Wanderer
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jun 04, 2012 11:07 pm
Posts: 12
Location: Lexington, KY
I joined the forums just to post in this thread. As a fan of old Ravenloft (and new Ravenloft for that matter) I'm really liking what I'm seeing from Transylvanian Adventures. As soon as a Kickstarter happens or a sales page appears, expect to have money from me. ^_^

_________________
"Doubt is not a pleasant condition, but certainty is an absurd one." -Voltaire


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 2012: Transylvanian Adventures & The Transylvanian Grimo
PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2012 9:29 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Jun 05, 2012 9:20 am
Posts: 1
I also registered here specifically to give some encouragement. IMO, there is no game that really handles the gothic/dark romance genre. Vampires are either gritty, foul-mouthed thugs or domesticated soap opera stars. I want a game where Dracula can smash his crystal goblet and cry "what is a man?" and morph into a gruesome minotaur-esque bat thing.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 2012: Transylvanian Adventures & The Transylvanian Grimo
PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2012 12:14 pm 
Offline
Tight-Lipped Warlock

Joined: Fri Jan 28, 2011 2:52 pm
Posts: 1084
grald_the_hunter wrote:
This may or may not be related to the blog post, but I really want to know how multiclassing works. Is there a unified xp table (a la 3e) or is there a variable xp table (DCC RPG) for each class? And, either way, how does multiclassing work? Is it like Castles & Crusades (i.e. you add xp goals for next level for each class together to get your multiclassed xp table)? 2e? 3e?

Inquiring minds want to know, 'cause I think multi-classing with some of the classes would be pretty interesting.


Cool. I'll write that up as the "Happy 5000" blogpost. The section on that will appear in The Transylvanian Grimoire. But it is so straight-forward that I have no doubt most people will start doing it way before TG is released.

DCC has a unified XP table (now). TA/TG uses that.

The way TA/TG does multi-classing is not really how multi-classing is handled in any other edition of D&D. The only open questions at this point are identifying the big breakages the multi-classing will introduce. And if there should be a cost to multi-classing.

The running answers at this stage in development have identified only a couple of serious game-breakers. And it doesn't look like multi-classing will carry any cost. It doesn't seem like one needs to be applied.


Last edited by smathis on Tue Jun 05, 2012 12:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 2012: Transylvanian Adventures & The Transylvanian Grimo
PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2012 12:19 pm 
Offline
Tight-Lipped Warlock

Joined: Fri Jan 28, 2011 2:52 pm
Posts: 1084
blackwingedheaven wrote:
I joined the forums just to post in this thread. As a fan of old Ravenloft (and new Ravenloft for that matter) I'm really liking what I'm seeing from Transylvanian Adventures. As soon as a Kickstarter happens or a sales page appears, expect to have money from me. ^_^


Thanks. That's encouraging. I'm not doing a Kickstarter for TA/TG. Mostly because I want to keep all options open on the business end of things. That includes timelines, cost of books, etc.

And when I say all options, I mean that. I'd love to make a little bit of something for all this effort. But I haven't ruled out anything. How much the book costs essentially depends on how much the art winds up costing me and how much the POD service wants.

All options are on the table. So I don't want to put people in a position where they donate X amount of money for a book that winds up costing X - 10 or X - 20. If the art starts to get pricey, I might consider a Kickstarter sort of thing. But at this point, I can't get an artist. So it's chicken and egg.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 2012: Transylvanian Adventures & The Transylvanian Grimo
PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2012 12:24 pm 
Offline
Cold-Hearted Immortal
User avatar

Joined: Fri Mar 16, 2012 11:41 am
Posts: 2053
http://danieljbishop.ca/index_files/Page293.htm

Not the world's greatest art, but I have some images you could use if you want. And I could do some new art for you as well, including images to match specific texts.

For a book like TA/TG, you might also want to consider public domain art, as there is a goodly amount of relevant art available.

Let me know.

Daniel

_________________
SoBH pbp:

Cathbad the Meek (herbalist Wizard 1): AC 9; 4 hp; S 7, A 7, St 10, P 17, I 13, L 8; Neutral; Club, herbs, 50' rope, 50 cp; -1 to melee attack rolls. Hideous scar.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 2012: Transylvanian Adventures & The Transylvanian Grimo
PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2012 12:26 pm 
Offline
Tight-Lipped Warlock

Joined: Fri Jan 28, 2011 2:52 pm
Posts: 1084
Manchu wrote:
I also registered here specifically to give some encouragement. IMO, there is no game that really handles the gothic/dark romance genre. Vampires are either gritty, foul-mouthed thugs or domesticated soap opera stars. I want a game where Dracula can smash his crystal goblet and cry "what is a man?" and morph into a gruesome minotaur-esque bat thing.


You will LOVE this game. I mean LOVE it. If you crossed Marv Wolfman's version of Dracula from the "Tomb of Dracula" comics, inserted some gooey, sanguinous Lovecraftian nougat. And then wrapped that up in the existential question of what it means to be basically a science experiment for a sorcerous Super-Cult that left a shell of a sociopath in a demi-god's body...

Well, you'd have Dracula.

He's like Darth Vader. With fangs. And super-hot chicks in harem girl outfits for his stormtroopers. And he's really ticked that he's only the "Prince" of Darkness. In his world, it's "King" or nothing.

And yeah, he's got some morphage that a typical adventuring party might find unsettling.

:twisted:


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 2012: Transylvanian Adventures & The Transylvanian Grimo
PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2012 12:28 pm 
Offline
Tight-Lipped Warlock

Joined: Fri Jan 28, 2011 2:52 pm
Posts: 1084
Raven_Crowking wrote:
http://danieljbishop.ca/index_files/Page293.htm

Not the world's greatest art, but I have some images you could use if you want. And I could do some new art for you as well, including images to match specific texts.

For a book like TA/TG, you might also want to consider public domain art, as there is a goodly amount of relevant art available.

Let me know.

Daniel


Thanks, Daniel. Let's chat. I'll send you a PM.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 2012: Transylvanian Adventures & The Transylvanian Grimo
PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2012 10:51 pm 
Offline
Tight-Lipped Warlock

Joined: Fri Jan 28, 2011 2:52 pm
Posts: 1084
Hello all,
Just wanted everyone to know that the Theorist and the Happy 5000th articles are up on the blog.

Enjoy!

What class do we want next week? We've got the Survivor and... Is that it? Is the Survivor the only one left?

That's a bit ironic, don't ya think?

So Survivor it is.

I'll admit that I was lukewarm on this class too (at first). But not anymore. The Survivor is flat out awesome. I have my favorites and Survivor went from worst-to-first (or thereabouts) real quick.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 2012: Transylvanian Adventures & The Transylvanian Grimo
PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2012 11:40 pm 
Offline
Far-Sighted Wanderer

Joined: Sun May 27, 2012 11:41 pm
Posts: 25
Would Indiana Jones and Solid Snake (of the "Metal Gear Solid" Playstation Games) qualify as Survivors? They do kick ass more with their wits than by brute force alone, after all?

Or is there a "sneaky" hero that would suit Snake better?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Conduct modifiers for turning or "God protects the worthy."
PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2012 12:46 am 
Offline
Far-Sighted Wanderer

Joined: Sun May 27, 2012 11:41 pm
Posts: 25
This suggestion is thematically relevant to the (classic, pre post modern) Gothic Genre. After all, just as The Good Gods of the world grant strength to the pure and kind to fight evil, they would surely frown upon the hypocrisy of the morally monstrous asking for the same strength

In ore words' I suggest that the Dungeon Master ought to keep a piece of scratch paper and record the Heroic/Un Heroic behaviors of heroes who can turn evil. a record of his "Honor points" if you will.

Now come crunch time, when the headless horseman thunders towards you on his burning steed howling for your blood, your most recent conduct prior to the turning will grant you bonuses and penalties to your dice roll.

minor kindness (+1 bonus)
giving the beggar a shilling, staying by a frightened child to help her sleep, saving a cat from a tree, being truthful. ETC

kindness (+2 bonus)
keeping one's promise, protecting an old man from being robbed by young hooligans, giving food and shelter to an orphan for a day, comforting a grieving widow/er and her/his family. ETC

nobility (+4 bonus)
Granting mercy, keeping ones word of honor EVEN TO AN ENEMY, working for extended periods to better the life of the destitute, protecting a village from a bandit massacre. ETC

heroism (+8 bonus)
Redeeming a villain through love and kindness, standing trial against a corrupt nobleman in spite of risks to one's life and limb, forgiving your family's murderer/ the man (or monster) who ruined your life and making peace with him. ETC (NOTE the last example should be GENUINELY role played near a campaign's conclusion so it won't be cheapened for a mere dice roll. It should be an emotional and meaningful event)

conversely...

minor misdeeds (-1 penalty)
Lying, minor theft for one's gain, apathy and refusing to help the weak ETC

transgressions (-2 penalty)
Stealing from church donations, malicious lies, laughing at suffering, torture of enemy, breaking promises, ETC

villainy (-4 penalty)
inspiring despair, denying redemption, breaking families through adultery, refusing to grant mercy to enemies who plead for it, breaking sacred vows, lies that will ruin the livelihood of decent people, robbery, threatening the innocent

And just to drive in the point of what it means to be a HERO, if you committ ANY Of the transgressions below , not only will your next turning attempt AUTOMATICALLY fail, you need to atone if you ever wish to use your faith again (if your God does not strike you down DEAD where you stand),

unforgivable sins (lose the ability to use faith, you f#<>ing monster)
Rape, killing children, murdering innocents, abject cowardice that causes the ruin of entire communities, desecrating the shrines and temples of any decent faith (even those not your own) bring complicit in the slave trade, the trading of opium (which in real life destroyed traditional China), abject greed and hoarding in the face of poverty and suffering, Helping a despot rise to power. ETC.

Note how in general, except the sins are not necessarily linked to religious conduct: an Athiest / Agnostic who does not believe in God can still serve God through love and kindness to his fellow man.

Just want to suggest a system that adds flavor and encourages heroism,

good luck!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 2012: Transylvanian Adventures & The Transylvanian Grimo
PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2012 7:11 am 
Offline
Tight-Lipped Warlock

Joined: Fri Jan 28, 2011 2:52 pm
Posts: 1084
Liu Jen Hao wrote:
Would Indiana Jones and Solid Snake (of the "Metal Gear Solid" Playstation Games) qualify as Survivors? They do kick ass more with their wits than by brute force alone, after all?

Or is there a "sneaky" hero that would suit Snake better?


Indiana Jones would probably best fit as a Hunter. He would have all the climbing-around-in-an-ancient-ruin skills he has in the movies, plus Mighty Deeds and his whip would qualify as a Signature Weapon if I'd ever seen one.

I'm not as familiar with Solid Snake from MGS. I played an early Nintendo or Sega version of MGS decades ago. If he hasn't changed too much, Solid Snake might be a good Exotic. Probably fits best there. Not from an Exotic standpoint. But from abilities. If not that, then maybe a Hunter. Exotics can be very sneaky. Hunters not as much. But Hunters get a greater quantity of weapons to work with. I guess that means Solid would be a good candidate for the multi-classing thing. Part Hunter, part Exotic. I'd probably start him out as an Exotic, though.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Conduct modifiers for turning or "God protects the worth
PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2012 7:19 am 
Offline
Tight-Lipped Warlock

Joined: Fri Jan 28, 2011 2:52 pm
Posts: 1084
Liu Jen Hao wrote:
This suggestion is thematically relevant to the (classic, pre post modern) Gothic Genre. After all, just as The Good Gods of the world grant strength to the pure and kind to fight evil, they would surely frown upon the hypocrisy of the morally monstrous asking for the same strength


Thanks for the suggestion, Liu Jen. DCC has a pretty good system in place for this sort of thing with how Luck points are used. I'd toyed with the notion of being a bit more heavy-handed with enforcing genre conventions. But I didn't care for the results. Giving and taking away Luck points are a pretty awesome way of handling this already.

I may give the main adversary in an adventure a bit of a twist to reflect the aspect of discovery in these tales. I'm starting work on the Adversaries and the Monsters section soon, so that should make it in there.

But I've found in playtesting that if I just let the players run with it, they tend to adopt the thematic elements of Gothic Horror all on their own. Once in a while TA/TG interjects something via a random chart or something but most of the time I'm able (as Judge) to sit back and enjoy the show. Half the time, I find myself spending twice as long "towning" (as one player called it) because it's a blast to watch what the players do.

Then it's off to the monster's lair. A familiar narrative, really. But skewed in what I hope is an inventive direction.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 2012: Transylvanian Adventures & The Transylvanian Grimo
PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2012 1:27 am 
Offline
Far-Sighted Wanderer

Joined: Sat May 26, 2012 10:50 am
Posts: 27
I love the way multiclassing works! Are there restrictions, like you can only take cross-class upgrades at x, y, and z levels, or you can only take cross-class upgrades from so many classes?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 2012: Transylvanian Adventures & The Transylvanian Grimo
PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2012 6:17 am 
Offline
Tight-Lipped Warlock

Joined: Fri Jan 28, 2011 2:52 pm
Posts: 1084
grald_the_hunter wrote:
I love the way multiclassing works! Are there restrictions, like you can only take cross-class upgrades at x, y, and z levels, or you can only take cross-class upgrades from so many classes?


Thus far, the only restrictions are that there are X class abilities or features that can't be taken as a cross upgrade. At this time, it's very straightforward. No level restrictions or limits or anything.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 2012: Transylvanian Adventures & The Transylvanian Grimo
PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2012 7:55 am 
Offline
Far-Sighted Wanderer

Joined: Sun May 27, 2012 11:41 pm
Posts: 25
Ladies and gentlemen:

1) I proposed the bonuses/penalties for honorable/dishonorable behavior due to VERY bad past experiences with the cynical/dark/gothic Emo-crowd who INSIST on playing nihilists who do NOT behave with AN honor, decency or even basic kindness unless it interested them. You know, the kind of leather wearing father-hating Marilyn Manson fas who SCREAM at you to start enjoy killing children because "it's a dark world, stop being such a prude." The WORST are avid players of the DELIBERATELY evil Sabbat from Vampire The Masquerade: BY BUDDAH am I thankful never hang around that group again.

Here is another suggestion: DON'T give bonuses for honorable behavior, as this is what is EXPECTED of heroes to be able to turn undead in the FIRST PLACE. Instead, STILL penalize them for murder, stealing, lying bullying and raping. Remind them that NOT every role-playing game has to turn into a singing-dancing-and-laughnig happily-and-cynically baby killing session of Game of Thrones, that Good Decency and Kindness is meant to be PROTECTED, NOT EXPLOITED.

And if any player decides to sink to crap like torturing and raping children just to get information with the excuse "I'm just accurately role-playing my Chaotic Character who DOSENT care about ANYONE period", take away his ability to turn-evil.... f><k it, just kick the bastard out of the gaming group for good.

Sorry, just too bitter about watching role playing games, which was once about celebrating hope, heroism and idealism, get warped into a tool for lionzing cruelty, apathy and cynicism.

2) Just wondering: I keep seeing the term "cold iron" pop up everywhere in any articles about fairies: just what the heck DOES make iron "cold"?

Changeling the Lost
defines a cold-iron sword as a lump of UN-melted iron hammered into a sword with a lot of time and a lot of patience. But that's just darned silly however you look at it.

Since both your hero's starting iron sword and plate mail AND their cold "cold iron", what does make an iron "cold" that enemies like Maleificent and the Queens of Hearts should fear you for having one?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 2012: Transylvanian Adventures & The Transylvanian Grimo
PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2012 8:01 am 
Offline
Steely-Eyed Heathen-Slayer
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jan 05, 2011 5:34 pm
Posts: 707
Location: Győr, Hungary
Liu Jen Hao wrote:
2) Just wondering: I keep seeing the term "cold iron" pop up everywhere in any articles about fairies: just what the heck DOES make iron "cold"?

Changeling the Lost
defines a cold-iron sword as a lump of UN-melted iron hammered into a sword with a lot of time and a lot of patience. But that's just darned silly however you look at it.

Since both your hero's starting iron sword and plate mail AND their cold "cold iron", what does make an iron "cold" that enemies like Maleificent and the Queens of Hearts should fear you for having one?

Here's the answer: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cold_iron#Cold_iron

_________________
Current campaign: Terminus DCC RPG


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 2012: Transylvanian Adventures & The Transylvanian Grimo
PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2012 8:37 am 
Offline
Tight-Lipped Warlock

Joined: Fri Jan 28, 2011 2:52 pm
Posts: 1084
Liu Jen Hao wrote:
Ladies and gentlemen...


Hi Liu Jen Hao. Great feedback as always. I would like a little time to write a full response. At this point, however, allow me to say that there are already sub-systems in place that could address these concerns. The expenditure and recovery of Luck as per the guidelines in DCC being the most expedient.

There's also a fair bit about how law, neutrality and chaos are defined in TATG.

I'll have more on this later. Thanks again.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 2012: Transylvanian Adventures & The Transylvanian Grimo
PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2012 3:04 pm 
Offline
Tight-Lipped Warlock

Joined: Fri Jan 28, 2011 2:52 pm
Posts: 1084
Liu Jen Hao wrote:
1) I proposed the bonuses/penalties for honorable/dishonorable behavior due to VERY bad past experiences with the cynical/dark/gothic Emo-crowd who INSIST on playing nihilists who do NOT behave with AN honor, decency or even basic kindness unless it interested them. You know, the kind of leather wearing father-hating Marilyn Manson fas who SCREAM at you to start enjoy killing children because "it's a dark world, stop being such a prude." The WORST are avid players of the DELIBERATELY evil Sabbat from Vampire The Masquerade: BY BUDDAH am I thankful never hang around that group again.

Here is another suggestion: DON'T give bonuses for honorable behavior, as this is what is EXPECTED of heroes to be able to turn undead in the FIRST PLACE. Instead, STILL penalize them for murder, stealing, lying bullying and raping. Remind them that NOT every role-playing game has to turn into a singing-dancing-and-laughnig happily-and-cynically baby killing session of Game of Thrones, that Good Decency and Kindness is meant to be PROTECTED, NOT EXPLOITED.

And if any player decides to sink to crap like torturing and raping children just to get information with the excuse "I'm just accurately role-playing my Chaotic Character who DOSENT care about ANYONE period", take away his ability to turn-evil.... f><k it, just kick the bastard out of the gaming group for good.

Sorry, just too bitter about watching role playing games, which was once about celebrating hope, heroism and idealism, get warped into a tool for lionzing cruelty, apathy and cynicism.


:D Sounds like you've had some pretty bad experiences with the V:tM crowd.

I'll qualify my statements by pointing out that I ran a Vampire LARP for over a year whose attendance went upwards of 50 people. I also helped run a Vampire LARP in a different city for a couple of years as sort of an "Assistant Storyteller". So I've got experience managing all sorts of players from the "I'm just here because my boyfriend likes it when I dress up like this" to the hardcore "I'm secretly a member of the Sabbat with a trenchcoat made out of human skin". Not to mention the full spectrum of both nightmare players and nightmare DMs from decades of playing D&D and other RPGs.

Whether or not putting a mechanic in a game to enforce behavior towards one direction or the other is a good/bad thing, let me just say that I don't think TA/TG is in danger of being overrun by this type of crowd. It's just not that type of game. There's really no challenge to slaying scores of "civilians" or committing heinous crimes on the villagers in TA/TG. It would be boring. And mildly sociopathic. And while I'd think the latter would not be a limiting factor, the first one would be. It would be like going from 1st level to 10th level doing nothing but killing rats. It would take forever. And wouldn't be terribly effective.

Part of that is because of the way alignment works in TA/TG -- which is similar to DCC but with a twist. Being "Lawful" means your character is invested into the system -- The Church, the government, the ruling classes, etc. While being "Neutral" takes a humanistic view of things. Right and wrong are taken in relative terms with a Neutral character. They gauge things less on "rules" and more on justice and fairness. "Chaotic" means that a character has a bit of a mercenary bent with a nod towards acquiring personal power. This varies from class to class. What motivates a Chaotic Hunter might not motivate a Chaotic Polymath. And the system a Lawful Half-Breed is bought into is going to be very different from the rules a Lawful Valiant follows.

That said, TA/TG doesn't force any moral code on characters. It argues pretty strongly against it. Sometimes characters are going to be in uncomfortable situations. Sometimes they might choose to do something that isn't quite heroic. In TA/TG, this might cost a Luck point (or 2 or 3) -- see below. But I think a mechanic that forces people to conform introduces unnecessary friction. Moreover, in my experience it doesn't dissuade players from attempting to repeat those actions. If anything, it creates an internal challenge for them to do it just because.

But one might wonder if I would allow characters to run roughshod over the 0-levels in TA/TG. And, well yeah, I guess they could. But I'd actually encourage a player to try that. Just please oh please just once. Preferably in a gypsy settlement. Because they'd do it once. Only once.

TA/TG is set in a fairly detailed setting. And characters never know who they're dealing with or who that person may know. Do something against the Gypsies and it could land you a gypsy curse. Believe me, you don't want to go around collecting those. Moreover, a family of someone a PC harms could "pay" a gypsy to curse a character. If the character's actions were heinous enough, the Gypsy would get the same efficacy as if that act were committed against one of their own. And that chart. Sucks. It drains the life out of anything worth min-maxing. Really it does. Try swinging a Two-Handed Sword when you lose 1 point of Strength permanently every X days. That's the kind of slow death that could make a darkgrim sociopath go muster up an apology. If only to stop having to roll 1d10-3 damage.

In addition, NPCs have families and communities. It's good to have those people on your side. If for no other reason than parties in TA/TG go around collecting Adversaries and Rivals. And the less help those groups get, the better a party does. Think about the rival archaeologist in Raiders of the Lost Ark. Yeah, you don't want the villagers running to THAT guy to get away from you.

And then there's ghosts. Nope. Not talking about the 3-5 HD creature that can be turned/controlled/destroyed. TA/TG has legit Hauntings. And if the PCs are nasty enough, those will start to add up as well. Sure, a party could try to Exorcise those in game. But those are resources that won't be going to fighting those who are trying to kill you and take your stuff.

The PCs also need help from the people of Transylvania. If a party has a seriously bad rep, they won't get information. They won't get maps. They won't get medical assistance. Did I mention there's no magical healing? They won't get SUPPLIES.

Sure, they may (at significantly high level) just burn a village to the ground and take what they want. But that is legitimately unsustainable. A 10th level character will have maybe as many as 60 hit points or little more than a dozen. While supermen compared to a single 0-level villager, a 10th level TA/TG character is simply not strong enough to take on armies. Especially armies with muskets. No matter what level a character is, 36 points of damage could potentially kill them. A musket in TA/TG can do up to 36 points of damage.

And without access to records, archives, private vaults, libraries, it really won't matter how many levels a group has. If they don't have access to the community, they will be facing every Adversary at full power.

And they will die. Research is how parties level the playing field between themselves and this vile monstrosity over here. Burning down villages tends to limit how much a character can look through books and archives. Investigation is a HUGE part of this game. If the priest won't let you in the archives, you're kinda screwed. Remember, Transylvanians held off Huns, Turks, Szeklers and many other invading armies by holing up inside their churches. What's 4 PCs compared to that?

And with a significantly bad reputation, that's what a party would start to encounter: empty villages with villagers holed up in their kirchenburg after being warned by the ghost of some poor villager they'd gruesomely slain. And the villagers can stay in there for years. Could magic help the party? Maybe. Once. Or twice. Before the villagers get wise and just shoot him. I'll gar-OHN-tee a 10th level Theorist won't stand up to a full on musket ball. And some towns even have rifles!

Taking it further, it wouldn't be too long before some survivor of the PC's atrocities gave soul or life to the Big D or an Old Thing to stop the PCs. And let me tell you, Dracula doesn't like competition on his home turf.

A 10th level party taking on Dracula after serious investigation might bring him down with zero casualties with a lucky shot or two. We're talking Epic rolls. Then again, they might just make him mad.

But facing the Big D cold? Or with a Gypsy curse on your head? Or with Hauntings that are messing with you?

Yeah, Dracula would kill them. Maybe toy with them a bit. I mean, Dracula's bad enough as it is. I couldn't imagine facing him with dozens of villagers armed with pitchforks and a handful of them with muskets backing him up. And that would make things that much worse in Transylvania as a whole. Because now Dracula would have a groundswell of support amongst the mortals. Soon Dracula's cultists become an open Army. And then the next campaign, things look a lot like the setting "Midnight" by FFG.

Another good reason for not "going dark" in the setting is there is no power gain. Dracula is LORD of the Vampires. To be a vampire is to be one of his thralls. He makes you (even indirectly). He unmakes you. Being a Werewolf is painful. You don't get to run around with superpowers. Nope, you wake up naked in some random hex after X days have passed with blood all over you. And you have to find your way back. Cue random encounters. It's like the worst GM intro ever: "You wake up naked and all your stuff is gone".

Unlike the White Wolf games, being a "monster" isn't part of the fun. Because monsters lose the one thing that players almost universally value: protagonism. The power to choose what their characters will do. It legitimately sucks (pun intended) to "go to the dark side" in Transylvania. I mean, what good is a Hunter who is a Vampire if Dracula can remotely decide that you shouldn't wake up for another 25 years? And we haven't even mentioned the other Adversaries in TA/TG.

Things also happen to the characters outside of the game. They make connections, friends, lovers (that they don't have to assault) and become assimilated into the world to the greatest degree possible (or should). They even get XP for this. It's pretty important. And when those people are hurt, things are not nice for the character. Being in a loving relationship and having something happen to that person or relationship negatively affects the character. While being loved has a positive mechanical effect that no other spell, potion or otherwise offers. So there's that too. The more community support you have, the better off you are. Just use the charts and stuff like this happens. And players have seemed to enjoy it (thus far).

But even if this wasn't the case in TA/TG, DCC has the Luck stat to help enforce genre behavior. Just as healing a Chaotic Thief might cost a Lawful Cleric a Luck point, slaughtering those you are meant to protect could have a negative effect on Luck as well. Even the darkest of Chaotic classes in TA/TG know that the common enemy is the forces of darkness. Some might want to gain part of their power. But each knows that giving themselves over to Evil is losing their power of choice. It's like being an addict or a kleptomaniac or having a really over-bearing boss.

And nobody likes that.

TA/TG allows players the choice to do what they want in the setting. But just like anything else, choices have consequences. If they walk up and kill the Town Boss and start raping tavern girls, the villagers flee into the kirchenburg. The party doesn't get directions. The party doesn't get a map to the dungeon. The party doesn't even know what's in the dungeon.

And that's a legitimately bad thing in TA/TG. Not to mention if a character's fiancee hears about it and is scandalized or decides to break it off with the character. That's the kind of legitimate bad news that keeps hurting until a character can fix it.

I guess being in love (or falling out of love) is a bit like a Gypsy curse. Hmm, hadn't thought of it that way. :lol:

Liu Jen Hao wrote:
2) Just wondering: I keep seeing the term "cold iron" pop up everywhere in any articles about fairies: just what the heck DOES make iron "cold"?

Changeling the Lost
defines a cold-iron sword as a lump of UN-melted iron hammered into a sword with a lot of time and a lot of patience. But that's just darned silly however you look at it.

Since both your hero's starting iron sword and plate mail AND their cold "cold iron", what does make an iron "cold" that enemies like Maleificent and the Queens of Hearts should fear you for having one?


Not sure "cold iron" will be a part of TA/TG. It's part of folklore, for sure. But the source material for TA/TG distinguishes silver items more than other varieties. The fae will be featured in TG but the likelihood they'll let you get near them with anything made out of iron or silver is about as high as Dracula going sunbathing. Not saying he couldn't. It's just not likely he'd want to.

And no one has plate mail in TA/TG. It went out of fashion about 2 centuries ago. It's really expensive. Hard to find. Bulky. Not helpful against firearms.

If using TA/TG rules in a fantasy setting, there's a possibility it might pop up. But I think characters would be more inclined to run around in a loincloth.

I know I would.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 2012: Transylvanian Adventures & The Transylvanian Grimo
PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2012 7:06 pm 
Offline
Tight-Lipped Warlock

Joined: Fri Jan 28, 2011 2:52 pm
Posts: 1084
After that huge last post (which should've probably found a home on the blog), I'd like to let every one who's contacted me from the Austin area know that I've got your PMs and I'll be in touch to set something up probably early in July. I'm working hard to get TA/TG in a good place. I'll be in contact soon.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 2012: Transylvanian Adventures & The Transylvanian Grimo
PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2012 9:16 pm 
Offline
Tight-Lipped Warlock

Joined: Fri Jan 28, 2011 2:52 pm
Posts: 1084
Hola... Or Orrlo as the case may be.

The Survivor is up on the blog now. Have fun with that.

I'm also writing up a bit more of an explanation re: disruptive players or groups that want to run-not-jog to the dark side. Not as much a window into TA/TG as an explanation of where I am on the topic and how I got there.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 566 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10 ... 23  Next

All times are UTC - 6 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group