Level 5+ Pathfinder Conversion: Echoes of the Runelords

[Aplus]

With our current campaign still going strong after 8+ months (a record for us), myself and my group were hesitant to set it aside to try something else, since we've already seen some of our past campaigns lose momentum and never quite get it back. Thus, I set about getting the group to agree to switch (more or less) to the DCC rules for a while, to test them out. There was only one holdout - our group's token powergamer. I did some analysis and found that the level 5 DCC RPG warrior actually fared slightly better in average damage (using the same d12 damage Pathfinder weapon). I showed him this and he jumped on board.

I set about trying to convert the existing Pathfinder characters to DCC, as much as possible, without taking away too much from them. I think we did okay, but these characters are definitely more powerful than your standard DCC guys, mainly due to ability scores being much higher.

If you care to see the conversion notes (still a work in progress), they can be found here:
Pathfinder to DCC RPG Conversion Notes

I've also done the writeup for the barbarian, which should actually be pretty well balanced with the DCC warrior, just with a few more fiddly bits:
DCC Barbarian
Some people might find this interesting in that I attempted to guess what levels 6-10 might look like. This is a necessary consideration for my game, since the group is level 5 now and will be hitting level 6 well before the official DCC rules are out.

At any rate, our first post-conversion session should be sometime in early July, and I'll be sure to post about how it goes!

[finarvyn]

An interesting doccument.

A question about stat conversion, however. I notice that you created a table where you tweaked the stat bonus range to fit DCC better. Perhaps it would be better to adjust actual stats to fit the bonus values.

Pathfinder:
10-11 +0
12-13 +1
14-15 +2
16-17 +3
18-19 +4

DCC:
9-12 +0
13-15 +1
16-17 +2
18 +3

So to keep bonus values similar:
Pathfinder 10 --> DCC 9-10
Pathfinder 11 --> DCC 11-12
Pathfinder 12 --> DCC 13-14
Pathfinder 13 --> DCC 15
Pathfinder 14 --> DCC 16
Pathfinder 15 --> DCC 17
Pathfinder 16+ --> DCC 18

[Aplus]

I think it's a worthy idea, and would work just fine, but there is an issue with doing that in my particular game:

The guy with the half-ogre with 20 STR would cry and pout until it made me quit playing RPGs forever. Getting him to agree to change his 20/+5 to a 20/+4 was hard enough, but getting him to change it to a 18/+3 would be a deal breaker. Does it sound ridiculous? Well, it is completely ridiculous. However, it is a real-life consideration I have to take into account. For all his munchkinism, he is a dear friend and a family member as well. And in fairness, he's played this character for many months and has become quite attached to him. Which for him is remarkable, since he is the type who would roll up a new character every week if possible, in search of that uber-powerful combination of lucky dice and a smart, exploitive, munchkin build. He enjoys the "character building" aspect of 3.x/Pathfinder probably more than actual play.

The other 3 players totally wouldn't care at all. The fun lies outside the numbers on the sheet for them.

[jmucchiello]

Why would you attempt to convert existing (and weirdly non-standard) characters from one game system to another? That doesn't really playtest DCCRPG.

[Aplus]

Why would you attempt to convert existing (and weirdly non-standard) characters from one game system to another? That doesn't really playtest DCCRPG.

Sorry, next time I'll PM you and get permission for what I do in my home game.

On a serious note, it is indeed a compromise, but I think it is better than just not playing DCC at all. I already explained the why of it in the first paragraph of my original post. If you look around, you will see a number of posts about how people wished they could get a group, or wished they could get their home group to try it. Well, I found a way to do that. Sure, it involves having some things in the game that aren't in the beta rules, but the same is true for anyone who puts a level 2 spell in their game. I've put a lot of effort into documenting everything we're doing and share any content I create or convert, and to imply that none of this has any value is both naive and disrespectful. While playtesting DCC is certainly a goal of mine, it takes a back seat to my campaign and my players, and I am unapologetic about that.

As one gamer to another, I would suggest that you re-read your posts before hitting the submit button. Maybe it's just in my head, but it seems like a lot of your posts have a "you're doing it wrong" tone to them.

That being said, I do want to also recognize the fact that you are a big contributor to a lot of the discussions around here, and I certainly don't intend to detract anything from that simple fact.

[jmucchiello]

Why would you attempt to convert existing (and weirdly non-standard) characters from one game system to another? That doesn't really playtest DCCRPG.

Sorry, next time I'll PM you and get permission for what I do in my home game.

No reason to be hostile or even apologetic. It just didn't make sense.

I already explained the why of it in the first paragraph of my original post. If you look around, you will see a number of posts about how people wished they could get a group, or wished they could get their home group to try it.

By the time I got to the end of your post, I'd forgotten the motivation. So my apologies for not reading more carefully.

As one gamer to another, I would suggest that you re-read your posts before hitting the submit button. Maybe it's just in my head, but it seems like a lot of your posts have a "you're doing it wrong" tone to them.

I try to reserve that tone for "correcting" people from using the word skill or pushing the class die concept. If that leaks into my other posts, it is a mistake or perhaps it shades perception of my other posts. I get this kind of thing all the time. And I don't always realize how my text reads. I can hear the sarcasm in my head, why can't you?

[finarvyn]

The guy with the half-ogre with 20 STR would cry and pout until it made me quit playing RPGs forever. Getting him to agree to change his 20/+5 to a 20/+4 was hard enough, but getting him to change it to a 18/+3 would be a deal breaker.

I thought about that problem when I put my example table together. My original had Pathfinder 16-17 translate into DCC 18, then Pathfinder 18+ translate into DCC 19 in order to maintain the +4 bonus.

The problem is that I haven't seen any DCC charts to suggest that you can surpass 18. That's why I chopped off my charts the way I did.

I think I'd encourage him to take the +4 modifier and remind him that he may be the only character in the campaign to get one.