reposting this here ion the right area! Blank Pages...

[Devil Swine]

I just finished printing them out and have only skimmed them so far. Love what I have seen!

However...(isn't there always a however!) the full page of blackness with only a few words like "This Chapter is Equipment" or some such thing cost me a TON of ink. They are places at the start of most chapters(I think) and man was I sweating it towards the end there. I thought I would not have enough Ink to finish the book!

As it turned out I did and enough Ink for 40 character sheets as well!

Still....it was a worry and thought id bring it up!

[Devil Swine]

I'm about half way through the book but so far I am still impressed. I do have a few thoughts besides the black pages though. The Spell list seems skimpy even for a beta. I guess 2nd level spells wouldn't be too hard to make up or you guys might update the list later with some more but its hard to get a good judge of things with only 1st level spells.

I love the Warriors ability to use combat tricks ect in battle but I do wonder what are the rules for other class's doing the same things? I think personally that as it stands now Warriors are the BOMB but that other class's (Hello Thief!) will end up gaining some of those abilities out of fairness.

Love the Cleric spell rules but at the same time..............in those books clerics were NOT adventurers. Those Heroes did not travel around with Priests handy for healing. I feel like something else could have been worked up but instead you guys fell back into the comfort zone of D&D. Not that that is so bad or anything but still,I had hopes that we wouldn't once again be forced to make players play a cleric in order for the game to work. I have only ever had one player WANT to play a cleric in all my years of playing.

Love the magic rules,just fun!

[Devil Swine]

I think the Alignment system needs reworking. Not that Law/chaos and Neutral do not work,they do.

The way they read though is confusing. On one hand Lawful is good and Chaos Evil but on the other sometimes chaos is good and lawful can be evil.

Ok Pick one.....

Just say up front that Law means rigid adherence to rules and structure and not a good or evil leaning and that Chaos is ever changing and a dedication to the ever-changing and not a reflection of good or evil.

As it stands now the rules read both ways.


Not something I can't live with but I would think it would be better to pick a direction and go with it.

Personally I do not like the whole good or evil thing. Let

[kataskicana]

Law and Chaos as alignments are very Appendix N...I'd recommend reading some Moorcock... The Chronicles of Corum are a quick read.

[Devil Swine]

Law and Chaos as alignments are very Appendix N...I'd recommend reading some Moorcock... The Chronicles of Corum are a quick read.

I have read them. In them Law and chaos are not good and evil. That seems to be the way DCC is leaning and thats fine but I find other references in the Beta where they point to law=good and chaos evil.

[jmucchiello]

On one hand Lawful is good and Chaos Evil

No, they aren't.

but on the other sometimes chaos is good and lawful can be evil.

No, they aren't.

Law and Chaos have nothing to do with what is good or evil. And besides, the players aren't heroes (see the chapter 1 title page) so what do they care about being good or evil?

[Devil Swine]

On one hand Lawful is good and Chaos Evil

No, they aren't.

but on the other sometimes chaos is good and lawful can be evil.

No, they aren't.

Law and Chaos have nothing to do with what is good or evil. And besides, the players aren't heroes (see the chapter 1 title page) so what do they care about being good or evil?

Page 17 Read Lawful and Chaotic and you will see you are wrong.

Then flip to Elf and reread the Alignment section.

This is just two sections that seem to say different things.


Alignment should mean one or the other NOT BOTH.

Either its good and evil or its opposite extremes of thought and order/disorder(like the books the game references).

[jmucchiello]

I see nothing on page 17 that indicates law is good and chaos is evil. "Doing what is right" is as close it gets under law but doing what is right is not always good.

The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few or the one* is the hallmark of law. You have to crack a few eggs to make an omelet. Sometimes good people have to die so that the majority may live. That is not fundamentally good.

Elves are traditionally chaotic good. But notoriously individualistic first.

* Can't leave of the "or the one", right?

[GnomeBoy]

I don't see anything that indicates Lawful is "Good" and Chaos is "Evil".

The closest I can get to seeing that point is the line from Chaos on page 17: "At higher levels, chaotic characters find themselves aligned with demons and devils, sinister monsters, extraplanar creatures, and the supernatural Chaos Lords." If you assume that's a club of critters that hangs out together, AND you feel that demons and devils are Evil, then, well, yeah, I guess Chaos is Evil. But I don't think each Alignment is a club, and I'm sure there are factions, disagreements, disputes, and out-and-out conflicts between members of the same Alignment.

So, you're Chaotic and you pal around with extraplanar creatures. Doesn't make you Evil...


Also: Why are we discussing Alignment under a heading about Blank Pages...???

[jmucchiello]

Because at this point it is better than starting another topic.