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How do high spell results compare to higher level spells?
http://www.goodman-games.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=67&t=16422
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Author:  jmucchiello [ Wed Jul 27, 2011 8:33 am ]
Post subject:  How do high spell results compare to higher level spells?

MOVED: from the Limiting Corruption thread
goodmangames wrote:
Let me pose the question a slightly different way. Here's the challenge I'm trying to solve: the fact that a level 3 spell has a minimum success threshold of 16+ on the die, while a level 1 spell has a minimum threshold of 12+.

Should a level 3 spell be harder to cast than level 1?

Should a level 3 spell have proportionately more powerful results; i.e. a 19 on a level 1 spell is less powerful than a 19 on a level 3 spell?

I think you need to make a chart like this and be explicit about it. The numbers below don't follow the standard spell progression (12, 14, 16, 20, 24, 28, 30, 32+). It just gives a feel for where the power levels are. For example, the 20-23 result of a 1st level spell should be just about 3rd level in power:
Code:
Power              Spell Level
Level     1      2      3      4      5
RANGE   12-32  14-34  16-36  18-38  20-40
-----   -----  -----  -----  -----  -----
1st     12-13    -      -      -      -
...     14-15    -      -      -      -
2nd     16-18  14-15    -      -      -
...     19-21  16-17    -      -      -
3rd     22-25  18-20  16-17    -      -
...     26-29  21-23  18-19    -      -
4th      30+   24-27  20-22  18-19    -
...            28-31  23-25  20-21    -
5th             32+   26-29  22-24  20-21
...                   30-33  25-28  22-23
6th                     34+  29-33  24-26
...                          34-37  28-30
7th                           38+   31-33

* So a spell can become up to 3 levels higher in power than its base level as the spell caster gain level.
* This solves the problem of the game only having 10 level but people wanting there to be 6th level and greater spells: the 4th and 5th level spell have effects that are "equivalent" to 7th and 8th level.
* So basically, the progression base level n, n+1, n+2, n+3 goes up in a +4, +6, +8 progression. It takes a +4 result (DC = 10 + 2*spell level + 4) to make a spell be effectively 1 level higher. It takes a +10 result to make a spell effectively 2 levels higher and it takes a +18 result to effectively raise the spell 3 levels.

We can easily argue the numbers. But it would be nice if this were spelled out someplace so that people making up their own spells would have something to refer to.

Author:  meinvt [ Wed Jul 27, 2011 10:34 am ]
Post subject:  Re: How do high spell results compare to higher level spells

Code:
Power              Spell Level
Level     1      2      3      4      5
RANGE   12-32  14-34  16-36  18-38  20-40
-----   -----  -----  -----  -----  -----
...     12    -      -      -      -
1st     13-14    -      -      -      -
...     15-17  14-15    -      -      -
2nd     18-21  16-17    -      -      -
...     22-26  18-20  16-17    -      -
3rd     27-32  21-23  18-19    -      -
...      33+   24-27  20-22  18-19    -
4th            28-31  23-25  20-21    -
etc.             32+   26-29  22-24  20-21
...                   30-33  25-28  22-23
6th                     34+  29-33  24-26
...                          34-37  28-30
7th                           38+   31-33


I like the idea in general. I might consider a geometrically increasing DC level for higher effects, as shown by the changed numbers for the level 1 spell above.

Author:  smathis [ Thu Jul 28, 2011 5:43 am ]
Post subject:  Re: How do high spell results compare to higher level spells

jmucchiello wrote:
MOVED: from the Limiting Corruption thread
goodmangames wrote:
Let me pose the question a slightly different way. Here's the challenge I'm trying to solve: the fact that a level 3 spell has a minimum success threshold of 16+ on the die, while a level 1 spell has a minimum threshold of 12+.

Should a level 3 spell be harder to cast than level 1?

Should a level 3 spell have proportionately more powerful results; i.e. a 19 on a level 1 spell is less powerful than a 19 on a level 3 spell?

I think you need to make a chart like this and be explicit about it. The numbers below don't follow the standard spell progression (12, 14, 16, 20, 24, 28, 30, 32+). It just gives a feel for where the power levels are. For example, the 20-23 result of a 1st level spell should be just about 3rd level in power:
Code:
Power              Spell Level
Level     1      2      3      4      5
RANGE   12-32  14-34  16-36  18-38  20-40
-----   -----  -----  -----  -----  -----
1st     12-13    -      -      -      -
...     14-15    -      -      -      -
2nd     16-18  14-15    -      -      -
...     19-21  16-17    -      -      -
3rd     22-25  18-20  16-17    -      -
...     26-29  21-23  18-19    -      -
4th      30+   24-27  20-22  18-19    -
...            28-31  23-25  20-21    -
5th             32+   26-29  22-24  20-21
...                   30-33  25-28  22-23
6th                     34+  29-33  24-26
...                          34-37  28-30
7th                           38+   31-33

* So a spell can become up to 3 levels higher in power than its base level as the spell caster gain level.
* This solves the problem of the game only having 10 level but people wanting there to be 6th level and greater spells: the 4th and 5th level spell have effects that are "equivalent" to 7th and 8th level.
* So basically, the progression base level n, n+1, n+2, n+3 goes up in a +4, +6, +8 progression. It takes a +4 result (DC = 10 + 2*spell level + 4) to make a spell be effectively 1 level higher. It takes a +10 result to make a spell effectively 2 levels higher and it takes a +18 result to effectively raise the spell 3 levels.

We can easily argue the numbers. But it would be nice if this were spelled out someplace so that people making up their own spells would have something to refer to.


This is actually what I've done with the spell charts I've worked on for my own project. My "level skip" doesn't happen every 4 though. It's more spread out. But this is roughly how my spell charts are broken up.

Author:  jmucchiello [ Thu Jul 28, 2011 7:33 am ]
Post subject:  Re: How do high spell results compare to higher level spells

smathis wrote:
This is actually what I've done with the spell charts I've worked on for my own project. My "level skip" doesn't happen every 4 though. It's more spread out. But this is roughly how my spell charts are broken up.

Reread my chart. It isn't every 4 it's n+1 = +4; n+2 = +6 (or +10 over n); n+3 = +8 (or +18 over n)

Author:  smathis [ Thu Jul 28, 2011 8:52 am ]
Post subject:  Re: How do high spell results compare to higher level spells

jmucchiello wrote:
smathis wrote:
This is actually what I've done with the spell charts I've worked on for my own project. My "level skip" doesn't happen every 4 though. It's more spread out. But this is roughly how my spell charts are broken up.

Reread my chart. It isn't every 4 it's n+1 = +4; n+2 = +6 (or +10 over n); n+3 = +8 (or +18 over n)


Ah. Very nice. I might like that better than what I've been working with. Good job!

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