Goodman Games

I prefer Armor to just set a base AC. So Plate Mail gives a character a 22 AC. Agility modifiers don't enter into it. I can see something like Leather Armor giving a base 12 AC that can be modified by Agility. But I don't see why the heavier armors do. Something like this:

Padded** AC 11
Leather* AC 12
Studded leather AC 13
Hide* AC 13
Scale mail AC 15
Chainmail AC 17
Banded mail AC 19
Half-plate AC 21
Full plate AC 23

* - Armor Class rating can be modified up or down by Agility bonus.
** - Armor Class rating can only be modified up by Agility bonus.

jmucchiello wrote:Poor agility should always hurt you.

talmor wrote:Personally, I'd like to see the power of the armor decreased, and the power of shields increased. I'd like to encourage the players to go with "sword and board" style, even if they have a solid agility.

jmucchiello wrote:If you increase shields too much more folks will pick Dwarf over Warrior because they get a free Shield Bash attack each round.

jmucchiello wrote:Did you read the two weapon rules? The only sane folks wielding two weapons will be halflings since they are treated as 16 agility on the two weapon chart. Who is going to have the 18 agility needed to have better than a d16 with either weapon?

jmucchiello wrote:No, everyone does not waddle around in plate armor like a penguin if they have been training for many years to wear the armor. I'm sure someone train since birth to be a knight in armor becomes quite agile in it or dies the first time they encounter someone with more agility. After all, in the real world, if your agility is reduced to 4, you probably can't hit an unarmored man standing in front of you because he dodge any clumsy swing of your sword without raising a sweat. You get off balance once and hit kicks onto your backside at which point stabbing you through your precious armor's joints should be child's play.

talmor wrote:

jmucchiello wrote: Secondly...why do halflings get dual wielding? I thoughts hobbits were all about rocks and slings and the like. Is it just a balancing thing? Or has Belkar finally taken over?

talmor wrote:Personally, I'd like to see the power of the armor decreased, and the power of shields increased. I'd like to encourage the players to go with "sword and board" style, even if they have a solid agility.

mshensley wrote:I am surprised that shields didn't get some special rule. Maybe something like if you use a shield, you can use your bonus die to add to your ac instead of using it to attack with.

smathis wrote:
But someone with an 18 AGL doesn't represent someone who has been trained in the use of armor since birth. It just represents someone who's more naturally Agile than most everyone else.

With the rules as written, I could have a Wizard with 18 AGL in Plate Mail. His AC would be 21. I could have a Fighter whose AGL is 8. He would have a 17 in AC.

How does that reflect training?

And people in Plate Mail were exceptionally less Agile than, well, anyone without it. Plate Mail's advantage was that it was hard to slash or puncture with most weapons. Most people who fought in plate mail did so on horseback fully because it was nearly impossible to charge in or to move at much more than a steady walk.

You're free to disagree with me. But as it stands, Armor seems odd to me at this point.

smathis wrote:
And people in Plate Mail were exceptionally less Agile than, well, anyone without it. Plate Mail's advantage was that it was hard to slash or puncture with most weapons. Most people who fought in plate mail did so on horseback fully because it was nearly impossible to charge in or to move at much more than a steady walk.

You're free to disagree with me. But as it stands, Armor seems odd to me at this point.

Stolen from Wikipedia wrote:While it looks heavy, a full plate armour set could be as light as only 20 kg (45 pounds) if well made of tempered steel. This is less than the weight of modern combat gear of an infantry soldier (usually 25 to 35 kg), and the weight is more evenly distributed. The weight was so well spread over the body that a fit man could run, or jump into his saddle. It is possible for a fit and trained man in armour to run after and catch an unarmoured archer, as witnessed in re-enactment combat. The notion that it was necessary to lift a fully armed knight onto his horse with the help of pulleys is a myth originating in Mark Twain's A Connecticut Yankee in King Arthur's Court. (And, in fact, the mere existence of plate armour during King Arthur's era is a myth as well: 6th-century knights would have worn mail instead.) Even knights in enormously heavy jousting armour were not winched onto their horses. This type of "sporting" armour was meant only for ceremonial lancing matches and its design was deliberately made extremely thick to protect the wearer from severe accidents, such as the one which caused the death of King Henry II of France.

jmucchiello wrote:I'm sure someone train since birth to be a knight in armor

Hamakto wrote: You know I would never disagree with your. *grin*

But... in DCC RPG (and other d20 OGL type games), the training, etc... come in additional HPs that the warrior has.

The armor is a static number. Steel is Steel.

Ogrepuppy wrote:And if they float like a duck they're a witch....common sense.

smathis wrote:

Hamakto wrote: You know I would never disagree with your. *grin*

But... in DCC RPG (and other d20 OGL type games), the training, etc... come in additional HPs that the warrior has.

The armor is a static number. Steel is Steel.

Those are good points, Andy.

This isn't a huge issue for me. But it's one of the few things that's bugging me. I don't want to blow it out of proportion. I liked the way LotFP did away with AC bonuses and just said... if you're unarmored you get 12, in Leather you get 14, in Chain you get 16, in Scale you get 18 in Plate you get 20. And you only get a DEX bonus if you're unarmored or in Leather.

I felt it made unarmored a really good option for the Dex guys. A guy with a Dex of 16 and Leather armor had an AC as good as Chain Mail. But guys who had really bad Dex could suck it up and just invest in better armor to keep from getting hit.

It was a nice trade-off. But oh well.

Something that's easy to houserule if most people here are happy with Armor RAW.

smathis wrote:

Hamakto wrote:I liked the way LotFP did away with AC bonuses and just said... if you're unarmored you get 12, in Leather you get 14, in Chain you get 16, in Scale you get 18 in Plate you get 20. And you only get a DEX bonus if you're unarmored or in Leather.

I felt it made unarmored a really good option for the Dex guys. A guy with a Dex of 16 and Leather armor had an AC as good as Chain Mail. But guys who had really bad Dex could suck it up and just invest in better armor to keep from getting hit.